urbanSTL

OMG if this happen in our downtown people will not go there ever again. At least our Riot was isolated but we need to address underlying causes nation wide. With this going on nation wide at least our region would not be the only one judge .

Can all of this unrest nation wide cause a another wave of white-flight?

True_dope wrote: Can all of this unrest nation wide cause a another wave of white-flight?

Unfortunately I think it definitely could.

dweebe wrote:

moorlander wrote:

True_dope wrote: Can all of this unrest nation wide cause a another wave of white-flight?

Unfortunately I think it definitely could.

Plus another migration West away from Rust Belt cities.

I think this is very likely. There's only so far into the suburbs you can move before commutes start to get ridiculous, but the sun belt is very attractive to people.

moorlander wrote:

True_dope wrote: Can all of this unrest nation wide cause a another wave of white-flight?

Unfortunately I think it definitely could.

Hard to tell. The difference now is that whites are moving to the city while blacks are moving out. Total opposite direction than what happened in the 1960's.

Not a fan of this article or its title. I understand its good intentions in celebrating the good things happening on the ground in Baltimore right now, but in a back-handed way, it is suggesting that the situation in Ferguson and St. Louis was more race-based and that the community didn't come together here in a time of crisis like they are in Baltimore. I'm glad the community is planting good seeds in the wake of tragedy in Baltimore. But they did in Ferguson and St. Louis too.

The situation in Baltimore is no different, for good and bad, as Ferguson and St. Louis. Or most American cities, for that matter, in terms of needing to deal with racial inequality and oppression.

I dont know. I was in Baltimore in March visiting my girlfriend's family, the segregation and feelings i heard about Baltimore from them reminded me of St. Louis. Nationwide their reputation may not be so but the people in Baltimore sure feel it. Poverty is among the worst. Dc call them Bamas which was the first i heard of that. Not saying St louis is any better but the sh!ts real out there too.

We need to tax the unfairly rich (Walton kids) and set up a jobs works program as FDR did to provide jobs for segments that have not rebounded from the Great Recession. This could help them, help the country infrastructure, and start to address the income inequality problems before the social contract breaks down and we have a French Revolution. If the federal and state governments won't act, then we may need regional authority one way or another. Maybe if we all threaten to move our families to LA.

gary kreie wrote:We need to tax the unfairly rich (Walton kids) and set up a jobs works program as FDR did to provide jobs for segments that have not rebounded from the Great Recession. This could help them, help the country infrastructure, and start to address the income inequality problems before the social contract breaks down and we have a French Revolution. If the federal and state governments won't act, then we may need regional authority one way or another. Maybe if we all threaten to move our families to LA.

There is a part of me wondering if that is exactly what some elements want and make it where certain segments of the population get fed up and move so they can have more power to do what they want in their vision. The thing is that the broken systems are inequalities are defended by too many by draping it in a flag and saying changing it is un-American.

arch city wrote:^Denial is not a good elixir.

That article is spot on.

I have not seen the level of racial venom from Baltimore - at least not yet - that came out of Ferguson and the St. Louis metro area.

Yes, a lot of white people joined with minorities in St. Louis - even Jack Dorsey - but there seemed to be just as many being the venomous, "Pants Up, Don't Loot", "Get a job", pouring-gasoline-on-the-fire antagonizers. The largely white militarized police force deployed by St. Louis County was AWFUL - just awful.

Not to mention the government leadership of Ferguson, The State of Missouri and St. Louis - both political and law enforcement - were atrocious and an embarrassment.

St. Louis looked as if it was stuck in 1950 with Jim and his Crow.

With that said, while Baltimore had a chance to learn from the shenanigans of St. Louis, keep in mind the situation in Baltimore isn't over just yet.

I'm not in denial at all. Racism drove the situation in St. Louis County. And it remains as one of the most powerful forces driving policy and attitudes in our region. Our problem with race is greater in St. Louis than most other places in the country.

But it doesn't help the country, Baltimore, or St. Louis for the national media and the local Baltimore media to say that racism isn't the main driver of police oppression against communities in Baltimore. Or that they're "not as bad" as those evil people in Ferguson, because they came together unlike those evil people in Ferguson. It's bullsh*t and there is nothing productive about the national media continuing to make a whipping boy out of St. Louis. It doesn't advance the cause of producing a more just criminal justice system in any way. It's a national problem that is particularly acute in St. Louis, which requires local leaders to recognize its acuteness here, but leaders in every city need to recognize they have a problem.

^^ The question that then comes up is what if the locals end up either thinking there isn't a problem or worse, their reaction to it is to further amplify the problems creating a vicious cycle. Since people in power saying things now might mean little if they are replaced by those who see no problem or if another round of white flight occurs out of St. Louis County and surrounding counties get more reactionary and hostile. (also I can't get out of my head the possibility of sections of St. Louis County wanting to leave the county either)

At that point the only solution might be heavy federal oversight in local government and not just the City and County, but the entire region

While this article is primarily about Denver, they use St. Louis as the example of poor regional cooperation in the last paragraph:

http://www.nationaljournal.com/next-eco ... s-20150429

Let's get it together, St. Louis metro.

The thought that every city on the eastern seaboard is less racist than St. Louis is asinine at best. Baltimore, Philadelphia, New York, Boston, and DC have their own racist histories, tensions, and hostile segregation. I have family from Boston, who moved to St. Louis and all they talked about was how racist Boston was and how they feel so much more at home in St. Louis (who would have thought?). In fact, I believe ever major city on the east coast, despite Baltimore-Washington, is on the top 10 most segregated list. I'm DEFINITELY not denying the racial dynamics in St. Louis and YES we have some of the worst in the country, but honestly they are no worse than Chicago, no worse than Los Angeles, and definitely no worse than other rust belt cities such as Cleveland, Milwaukee, and Detroit. My thought is that our political and governmental fragmentation is what holds back St. Louis more than anything and definitely makes already sour race relations twice as worse as they would be, combine that with a backwards, Bible Belt outstate legislature and you have a recipe that would kill the most progressive urban region.

Also, the myth of the tolerant North vs. the hate filled South is just that a MYTH! The South has done much more to repair its negative image and is a way more racially tolerant today than the North. I feel Northern/Industrial/Midwestern cities never had to look themselves in the mirror and say "its time for a change". Its no wonder the South is booming, people are just sick of the doom and gloom of this part of the country.

goat314 wrote:The thought that every city on the eastern seaboard is less racist than St. Louis is asinine at best. Baltimore, Philadelphia, New York, Boston, and DC have their own racist histories, tensions, and hostile segregation. I have family from Boston, who moved to St. Louis and all they talked about was how racist Boston was and how they feel so much more at home in St. Louis (who would have thought?). In fact, I believe ever major city on the east coast, despite Baltimore-Washington, is on the top 10 most segregated list. I'm DEFINITELY not denying the racial dynamics in St. Louis and YES we have some of the worst in the country, but honestly they are no worse than Chicago, no worse than Los Angeles, and definitely no worse than other rust belt cities such as Cleveland, Milwaukee, and Detroit. My thought is that our political and governmental fragmentation is what holds back St. Louis more than anything and definitely makes already sour race relations twice as worse as they would be, combine that with a backwards, Bible Belt outstate legislature and you have a recipe that would kill the most progressive urban region.

Also, the myth of the tolerant North vs. the hate filled South is just that a MYTH! The South has done much more to repair its negative image and is a way more racially tolerant today than the North. I feel Northern/Industrial/Midwestern cities never had to look themselves in the mirror and say "its time for a change". Its no wonder the South is booming, people are just sick of the doom and gloom of this part of the country.

Spot on in terms of noting the unique circumstances here that occur here in terms of the fragmentation and the impact of state politics which is different from other places.

In terms of the South and the view of "its time for a change", the places that were most willing to make such changes are the places in the South that are more vibrant while those places that didn't have not had it. The local aspect is here that never occurred since it was seen as something places to the South of here have to deal with, even though unlike the other industrial northern and Midwestern cities most of the same laws and structures of the South did occur here (the big exception was voting rights) but it was brushed under the rug and forgotten to the region's detriment. The city with the most similar issues in its history is Baltimore actually and what this all could highlight is there is a particular dynamic in terms of racial history unique to Border Cities.

hebeters2 wrote:http://qz.com/284383/i-am-darren-wilson ... y-of-fear/

I have never seen anyone wearing an "I am Darren Wilson" shirt. Like most folks, when the first witnesses were on localTV, I assumed Darren Wilson was a young cop who lost his temper with a black teen. Who wants to be that?

Like Baltimore, this is more about police vs young black men, not white police vs young black men.

^^ just want to point out that that article is from last October.

gary kreie wrote: I have never seen anyone wearing an "I am Darren Wilson" shirt.

i saw a number of them, particularly around city hall during protests and around Busch stadium during games.

in any case, the people of Baltimore do seem to be rallying behind Freddie Gray to a much greater extent than St. Louis did for Michael Brown even before the Grand Jury failed to indict Wilson. IMO, most metro St. Louisans who weren't of the "Brown got what he deserved" camp were in the "we're tired of hearing about it; we just want it all to go away so we're not inconvenienced" camp.