St. Louis in the National Media

Ragtimer · PostJul 03, 2025#27512025-07-03T02:15+00:00

Well, this isn't great. A popular YouTuber, World According to Briggs, has put St. Louis in the 8th spot in his new video "Which 10 U.S. Cities Drag Down their States the Most?" It could be worse, though. East St. Louis got #2 on the list. For STL, he quotes everyone's favorite "most dangerous city" crime statistics, poverty rate, and the May 2025 tornado as the reasons why STL is "holding back" Missouri.

I propose Mr. Briggs do a video on "Which States Drag Down their Cities the Most." Missouri (regarding their relationship to STL) should be on that list for sure, IMO.
This video worries me because Briggs has a substantial following (~1.3M subs, 259K views). From some comments, this seemed to be their first impression of St. Louis besides seeing pictures of the Arch. I wish more people could see St. Louis as the beautiful city it really is. Stuff like this can be really damaging.

The video (St. Louis is at 4:11): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJWwcyq4A6E

PlatinumBlues · PostJul 03, 2025#27522025-07-03T02:37+00:00

The damage as been done for decades so he’s not beating any new drums that people don’t know about. Only St.Louis can fix it’s reputation & there’s honestly no clear way of doing that if the county & city continue to be what they are for the past almost century now. St.Louis was put in this situation through its past & selfishness. I don’t think St.Louis is holding Missouri back by any means in fact it’s reverse. The state could be such a great partner towards& with the city however it chooses not to be so therefore we languish & dangle by a thread until we can dangle any longer & fall. St.Louis is a beautiful place just need leaders who see & want that & a state that see & want that. Till then down the dangle we go

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Auggie · PostJul 03, 2025#27532025-07-03T02:41+00:00

Briggs is a reactionary who offers nothing of substance. Nothing he says hasn't already been said by some other right-wing clown looking for views.

In reality, STL has the highest GDP/capita of any county in Missouri, it has some of Missouri's most well known companies, and is the top tourist destination in the state.

It sucks that slop content is what gets views, but that's all Briggs is. He's totally uninterested in citing actual issues or advocating for real solutions.

Ragtimer · PostJul 03, 2025#27542025-07-03T21:09+00:00

^^Sadly, you're right in that he's not saying anything new. It's just depressing to see the same old narrative being spread by a prominent influencer. I agree that Missouri is holding St. Louis back when the state could be doing so much more.

^Also agree. The entire video was all negative and nothing actually constructive or positive. Perfect point that STL has the highest GDP/capita in the state.

stlgasm · PostJul 03, 2025#27552025-07-03T23:16+00:00

I am dumber for having watched that crap. But I can't imagine anyone other than city geeks like us would actually stumble across this video, much less sit through and watch it. And if they're city nerds like us, they already understand the subjective nature of these "rankings" and don't put much stock in them.

Also, some of the b-roll in the Detroit segment was actually Louisville, not Detroit. It's nothing more than fast food of the internet.

Ragtimer · PostJul 04, 2025#27562025-07-04T02:25+00:00

^LOL. Good point about the audience though.

Didn't watch the Detroit segment. I was filing through the chapters hoping not to see St. Louis on the list, and when I got to it, I started watching from there. I did notice that some of the STL b-roll was actually really nice. Which makes me think, if he's a reaction YouTuber who obviously has nothing nice to say about STL (or any of the other cities), why is he using such nice drone shots and b-roll of the city? Kinda misses the point.

southcitykid · PostJul 05, 2025#27572025-07-05T15:28+00:00

I think as of late the State has been trying to help St. Louis more, look at some of the legislation that has been passed recently like helping the Cardinals, tornado relief, appointing a decent PA and hopefully kicking out our current Sheriff. They tried to make refurbishing our larger vacant buildings feasible and the Governor has been very visible during the tornado recovery. They seem to recognize our issues and are trying to partner in fixing them.

Auggie · PostJul 05, 2025#27582025-07-05T22:34+00:00

southcitykid wrote: ↑
Jul 05, 2025
I think as of late the State has been trying to help St. Louis more, look at some of the legislation that has been passed recently like helping the Cardinals, tornado relief, appointing a decent PA and hopefully kicking out our current Sheriff. They tried to make refurbishing our larger vacant buildings feasible and the Governor has been very visible during the tornado recovery. They seem to recognize our issues and are trying to partner in fixing them.

This has been by far the worst legislative session for city-state aid/help in decades, maybe ever. The GOP's fall from grace as a serious political party can be summarized by GOP Governor Kit Bond moving state offices into downtown STL to help boost the area (this is something the GOP governor of Maryland did for Baltimore a few years ago as well)- but this year, the GOP Governor moved the state offices from downtown to a suburban hellscape.

If the state or Governor had any care for STL or any of the blue areas in the state, they wouldn't only budget $10M for transit and the Governor wouldn't veto half of it.

You have rose tinted glasses if you think they're doing anything good for the city.

PostJul 06, 2025#27592025-07-06T03:40+00:00

southcitykid wrote: ↑
Jul 05, 2025
I think as of late the State has been trying to help St. Louis more, look at some of the legislation that has been passed recently like helping the Cardinals, tornado relief, appointing a decent PA and hopefully kicking out our current Sheriff. They tried to make refurbishing our larger vacant buildings feasible and the Governor has been very visible during the tornado recovery. They seem to recognize our issues and are trying to partner in fixing them.

(Added later because of internet connection issues in rural Missouri)

Actions by the state legislature that directly hurt St. Louis:

-Repeal paid sick leave.
-Repeal capital gains tax (results in $300M+ less in yearly revenue), it's also a tax cut for the rich.
-Failed to pass Downtown Revitalization bill.
-Followed through on moving state offices from downtown to west county.
-Police takeover puts SLMPD in the hands of a clearly corrupt and incompetent board.
-Unfunded mandate to spend 25% of the city's budget on police.
-Failed to pass a capital improvements bill, which has tens of millions in funding for STL area projects.
-Governor voted $500M+ in approved spending, millions of which were heading for the STL area.
-Lowered the state transit fund from Parson's $11.7 million (which was an increase and Parsons was actually sorta a transit ally for this) to $10 million, and then the Governor vetoed $5 million of it.

It has been a horrible last 6 months for the city in terms of what type of a partner the state is.

As for the things you mentioned as "positives":

-The stadium funding will benefit KC billionaires far (a possible $1.5 billion) far more than it will benefit the Cardinals (maybe $300M), and that's assuming no changes will be made down the line to diminish how much it will "benefit" the Cardinals. It also will benefit the Cardinals, not the city. Sure, it might "save" the city from some type of funding burden, but the city also could pretty easily negotiate with the Cardinals on an additional sales tax and adding a 1% ticket tax to pay for the public portion of stadium upgrades. It's not like the Cardinals have been bad faith when it comes to working with the city on this type of thing. Nor do the Cardinals have the leverage of threatening to leave the city (like the Chiefs and Royals), nor do they want to. This bill was also not pushed to help the Cardinals or St. Louis at all. In fact, it's narrowly tailored to leave out venues like Enterprise or the Dome. It wouldn't have ever popped up had KC approved the sales tax extension last year to fund stadium upgrades for their teams. It's laughable to act like this is the state "helping" St. Louis.

-Tornado relief?? Putting beside the fact that they only offered so much aid as a way to ensure Democratic support for the awful stadium funding bill, it's their job to provide aid for natural disasters, and it's common sense for them to eagerly want to provide aid for a region that represents almost half of the state's economy. The fact it took an EF-3 tornado for the state to dump $100M into STL city, much less North City, says it all.

-The current circuit attorney was appointed over 2 years ago by a different Governor. It was so long ago, that he is now not even appointed, he's elected. No where near qualifying as "as of late".

If they recognized our issues, they would 1) implement basic gun controls laws that have been proven to lower gun crime in many states, 2) Focus on policies that lower the affects of poverty, 3) Support public transit, 4) Provide billions in funding acorss decades for redevelopment of North City and downtown revitalization.

But they don't do any of that.

urbanjoe · PostJul 23, 2025#27602025-07-23T01:27+00:00

St. Louis is listed as the 3rd most exciting city by FinanceBuzz. com: https://financebuzz.com/most-exciting-cities-in-america

As opposed to the most boring cities: https://financebuzz.com/most-boring-cities-in-america-ranked

framer · PostAug 12, 2025#27612025-08-12T17:37+00:00

Yet another "STL vs. KC" battle is raging on the World Cityscapes and Skyscrapers Facebook group.

PlatinumBlues · PostAug 12, 2025#27622025-08-12T22:45+00:00

While KC has the better Skyline I think St.Louis overall is a better area if you minus the crime. Theres just a lot more to do here with room for significant improvement. Our downtown needs at least 5-6 new high rises between 30-40 floors to have a top 15 skyline. But maybe the Millennium development will change that. I would love to see the old bottle district land redeveloped possibly let Cordish do whatever they want with it. I think they could do some great wonders for that area & downtown.

jshank83 · PostAug 12, 2025#27632025-08-12T23:35+00:00

framer wrote: ↑
Aug 12, 2025
Yet another "STL vs. KC" battle is raging on the World Cityscapes and Skyscrapers Facebook group.

People can spend a lot of time in time wasting pointless debates. This is one of them.

Ragtimer · PostAug 12, 2025#27642025-08-12T23:43+00:00

PlatinumBlues wrote: ↑
Aug 12, 2025
While KC has the better Skyline I think St.Louis overall is a better area if you minus the crime. Theres just a lot more to do here with room for significant improvement. Our downtown needs at least 5-6 new high rises between 30-40 floors to have a top 15 skyline. But maybe the Millennium development will change that. I would love to see the old bottle district land redeveloped possibly let Cordish do whatever they want with it. I think they could do some great wonders for that area & downtown.

KC has a better skyline? STL is probably the most recognizable skyline in the US outside of the top three cities (NYC, LA, Chicago). If you take away the Arch, then maybe KC has a better skyline. Even so, STL still feels more like a big city than KC in most places. You've got pockets of high-rises all the way down the central corridor from Downtown to Clayton. KC only has their downtown.

I do agree that new development could make the skyline even better though. Millenium is going to be great if it is built like the renderings. Bottle District is really sad right now and that area generally seems neglected.

STL is definitely the better area, and KC isn't doing so great right now as far as crime goes. KC does have a really nice airport, although Lambert seems to have improved since the last time I flew into/out of it.

Auggie · PostAug 13, 2025#27652025-08-13T02:15+00:00

Ragtimer wrote: ↑
Aug 12, 2025
PlatinumBlues wrote: ↑
Aug 12, 2025
While KC has the better Skyline I think St.Louis overall is a better area if you minus the crime. Theres just a lot more to do here with room for significant improvement. Our downtown needs at least 5-6 new high rises between 30-40 floors to have a top 15 skyline. But maybe the Millennium development will change that. I would love to see the old bottle district land redeveloped possibly let Cordish do whatever they want with it. I think they could do some great wonders for that area & downtown.
KC has a better skyline? STL is probably the most recognizable skyline in the US outside of the top three cities (NYC, LA, Chicago). If you take away the Arch, then maybe KC has a better skyline. Even so, STL still feels more like a big city than KC in most places. You've got pockets of high-rises all the way down the central corridor from Downtown to Clayton. KC only has their downtown.

I do agree that new development could make the skyline even better though. Millenium is going to be great if it is built like the renderings. Bottle District is really sad right now and that area generally seems neglected.

STL is definitely the better area, and KC isn't doing so great right now as far as crime goes. KC does have a really nice airport, although Lambert seems to have improved since the last time I flew into/out of it.

People love to conveniently remove the Arch from consideration when judging our skyline.

whitherSTL · PostAug 13, 2025#27662025-08-13T02:32+00:00

Watching Cincy get international attention with their annual tennis tournament makes me think the Bottle District should be a world class pickleball center with stadium courts, etc.

framer · PostAug 13, 2025#27672025-08-13T12:36+00:00

Yep. But the thing is, the Arch IS there, it IS a part of our skyline, and it IS spectacular.

Ragtimer · PostAug 13, 2025#27682025-08-13T16:44+00:00

^Precisely. In my personal opinion, the Arch makes STL the best and most recognizable skyline in the U.S. It definitely has the most recognizable one outside of the top 3 big cities.

PlatinumBlues · PostAug 13, 2025#27692025-08-13T17:30+00:00

Ragtimer wrote: ↑
Aug 12, 2025
PlatinumBlues wrote: ↑
Aug 12, 2025
While KC has the better Skyline I think St.Louis overall is a better area if you minus the crime. Theres just a lot more to do here with room for significant improvement. Our downtown needs at least 5-6 new high rises between 30-40 floors to have a top 15 skyline. But maybe the Millennium development will change that. I would love to see the old bottle district land redeveloped possibly let Cordish do whatever they want with it. I think they could do some great wonders for that area & downtown.
KC has a better skyline? STL is probably the most recognizable skyline in the US outside of the top three cities (NYC, LA, Chicago). If you take away the Arch, then maybe KC has a better skyline. Even so, STL still feels more like a big city than KC in most places. You've got pockets of high-rises all the way down the central corridor from Downtown to Clayton. KC only has their downtown.

I do agree that new development could make the skyline even better though. Millenium is going to be great if it is built like the renderings. Bottle District is really sad right now and that area generally seems neglected.

STL is definitely the better area, and KC isn't doing so great right now as far as crime goes. KC does have a really nice airport, although Lambert seems to have improved since the last time I flew into/out of it.

Yes! The buildings in KC appear to have more height than ours since they’re clumped together as to where ours seem squatty since they’re a bit spread out other than that I love the arch it’s one of the most beautiful pieces of art on this planet that no other city can’t brag about but I do I wish our skyline had a bit more height. Again several more high rises to make the arch pop would do wonders & think most people here would like to see something new than the same buildings I get that we’re not a boomtown or in demand city but a few more 400 footers 500 footers even a 600 footer would put our skyline in the top 10. St.Louis will always be recognizable with the arch but adding more would make it look all that more beautiful…. I prolly don’t make sense anyways

Auggie · PostAug 13, 2025#27702025-08-13T18:29+00:00

STL's average for our top 5 tallest is 524 feet while our top 10 average is 411 feet.

KC's is 534 feet and 474.

KC has significantly more 400-500 foot buildings than STL, which is their skyline looks better. We also have Clayton. Without Clayton, downtown would have more tall buildings.

bwcrow1s · PostAug 13, 2025#27712025-08-13T18:55+00:00

PlatinumBlues wrote: ↑
Aug 12, 2025
While KC has the better Skyline I think St.Louis overall is a better area if you minus the crime. Theres just a lot more to do here with room for significant improvement. Our downtown needs at least 5-6 new high rises between 30-40 floors to have a top 15 skyline. But maybe the Millennium development will change that. I would love to see the old bottle district land redeveloped possibly let Cordish do whatever they want with it. I think they could do some great wonders for that area & downtown.

Almost like if Staenberg dropped $2b of investment Downtown in combo with all the DTW and cordish investments, it'd make a tangible difference rather than 30 minutes west. What a legacy.

Ragtimer · PostAug 14, 2025#27722025-08-14T03:08+00:00

PlatinumBlues wrote: ↑
Aug 13, 2025
Ragtimer wrote: ↑
Aug 12, 2025
PlatinumBlues wrote: ↑
Aug 12, 2025
While KC has the better Skyline I think St.Louis overall is a better area if you minus the crime. Theres just a lot more to do here with room for significant improvement. Our downtown needs at least 5-6 new high rises between 30-40 floors to have a top 15 skyline. But maybe the Millennium development will change that. I would love to see the old bottle district land redeveloped possibly let Cordish do whatever they want with it. I think they could do some great wonders for that area & downtown.
KC has a better skyline? STL is probably the most recognizable skyline in the US outside of the top three cities (NYC, LA, Chicago). If you take away the Arch, then maybe KC has a better skyline. Even so, STL still feels more like a big city than KC in most places. You've got pockets of high-rises all the way down the central corridor from Downtown to Clayton. KC only has their downtown.

I do agree that new development could make the skyline even better though. Millenium is going to be great if it is built like the renderings. Bottle District is really sad right now and that area generally seems neglected.

STL is definitely the better area, and KC isn't doing so great right now as far as crime goes. KC does have a really nice airport, although Lambert seems to have improved since the last time I flew into/out of it.
Yes! The buildings in KC appear to have more height than ours since they’re clumped together as to where ours seem squatty since they’re a bit spread out other than that I love the arch it’s one of the most beautiful pieces of art on this planet that no other city can’t brag about but I do I wish our skyline had a bit more height. Again several more high rises to make the arch pop would do wonders & think most people here would like to see something new than the same buildings I get that we’re not a boomtown or in demand city but a few more 400 footers 500 footers even a 600 footer would put our skyline in the top 10. St.Louis will always be recognizable with the arch but adding more would make it look all that more beautiful…. I prolly don’t make sense anyways

No, I totally get what you're saying and agree.

My only reservation would be against something taller than the Arch in the immediate vicinity of it, but, IMO, west of Tucker is fair game for +600ft buildings. In Downtown proper (east of Tucker), a few more towers in the 400-500ft range would be really nice. It would certainly give us a nice dense skyline more like KC's and boost STL's numbers compared to KC's in the metric Auggie posted above.

PostAug 14, 2025#27732025-08-14T03:12+00:00

whitherSTL wrote: ↑
Aug 13, 2025
Watching Cincy get international attention with their annual tennis tournament makes me think the Bottle District should be a world class pickleball center with stadium courts, etc.

Interesting idea. I can see something like this taking off, although I fear the pickleball fad will fade eventually. If the sport proves to be popular in the longer run, this idea could be great. Maybe incorporate some other uses as well, similar to BPV, so it's not desolate when a game isn't happening.

framer · PostSep 06, 2025#27742025-09-06T23:58+00:00

This is from several months ago, but I just heard it today, and thought I'd share. Apparently many people believed that there were plans to move The Arch to Branson. Snopes checked it out (don't worry; it's not true):

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/st-lo ... o-branson/

delmar2debaliviere2downtown · PostSep 07, 2025#27752025-09-07T00:17+00:00

Lol, in retrospect wouldn’t had been so bad to put it on the east riverfront and keep our old riverfront which would’ve probably became a destination on its own but history is history

St. Louis in the National Media

Choose Display Mode