They don’t have the hockey scene that has developed from having an NHL team for 60 years though. Because hockey has historically been so regional amongst youth, having a NHL team does wonders for youth leagues and interest in the sport. St. Louis would draw betterGoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑Oct 30, 2024KC should be gunning for a franchise if they aren't already. Great women's sports scene out there
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I would have to think (or at least perceive) the KC sports dollar has reached it's max considering a metro population of 2-2.2M. With the Chiefs, Royals, Sporting & Current, do you think KC could support another team and/or convince a pro league that the market can absorb another team?RockChalkSTL wrote: ↑Oct 30, 2024KC is said to be trying for a WNBA team.
Regarding the Blues, I have been thinking about the empty building between Enterprise Center and City Hall as a great mixed used building to include a Blues-themed bar/restaurant, a Blues Hall of fame and Museum, as well as anything else they can fit in there. Hard to fathom the limited pre & post event options to the east of the stadium. That needs to change!
I can't imagine in the current environment downtown, that this building would be out of the Blues price range. Does anyone know who owns this building and why it has sat empty for so many years?
I can't imagine in the current environment downtown, that this building would be out of the Blues price range. Does anyone know who owns this building and why it has sat empty for so many years?
That's the Municipal Courts Building. Here's the thread on that-DogtownBnR wrote: ↑Oct 30, 2024Regarding the Blues, I have been thinking about the empty building between Enterprise Center and City Hall as a great mixed used building to include a Blues-themed bar/restaurant, a Blues Hall of fame and Museum, as well as anything else they can fit in there. Hard to fathom the limited pre & post event options to the east of the stadium. That needs to change!
I can't imagine in the current environment downtown, that this building would be out of the Blues price range. Does anyone know who owns this building and why it has sat empty for so many years?
municipal-courts-bldg-market-street-t4395.html
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The city owns it. Last developer failed to pay taxes and city got it back. There is an RFP due Jan 5 or 8th for the building. I’ve had meetings with people at enterprise center about this and thats all I’ll say for now.DogtownBnR wrote: ↑Oct 30, 2024Regarding the Blues, I have been thinking about the empty building between Enterprise Center and City Hall as a great mixed used building to include a Blues-themed bar/restaurant, a Blues Hall of fame and Museum, as well as anything else they can fit in there. Hard to fathom the limited pre & post event options to the east of the stadium. That needs to change!
I can't imagine in the current environment downtown, that this building would be out of the Blues price range. Does anyone know who owns this building and why it has sat empty for so many years?
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That sounds positive!dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Oct 30, 2024The city owns it. Last developer failed to pay taxes and city got it back. There is an RFP due Jan 5 or 8th for the building. I’ve had meetings with people at enterprise center about this and thats all I’ll say for now.DogtownBnR wrote: ↑Oct 30, 2024Regarding the Blues, I have been thinking about the empty building between Enterprise Center and City Hall as a great mixed used building to include a Blues-themed bar/restaurant, a Blues Hall of fame and Museum, as well as anything else they can fit in there. Hard to fathom the limited pre & post event options to the east of the stadium. That needs to change!
I can't imagine in the current environment downtown, that this building would be out of the Blues price range. Does anyone know who owns this building and why it has sat empty for so many years?
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Lot of commentary on NHL social media about the same “popular” and “big market” teams being selected for winter classic, talking about favoring attractive teams like Blackhawks and Blues.
It’s kind of amazing that St. Louis is perceived as a big market in both baseball and hockey.
The cardinals and the blues are considered by fans to be “teams with money.”
Funny that we really punch above our weight as a sports market. Should definitely be a 3 of 4 big 4 sports city.
It’s kind of amazing that St. Louis is perceived as a big market in both baseball and hockey.
The cardinals and the blues are considered by fans to be “teams with money.”
Funny that we really punch above our weight as a sports market. Should definitely be a 3 of 4 big 4 sports city.
The Blues are still a bottom 1/3rd value team: but they've certainly moved up the list as for a long while the team was frequently dead last.delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑Nov 23, 2024Lot of commentary on NHL social media about the same “popular” and “big market” teams being selected for winter classic, talking about favoring attractive teams like Blackhawks and Blues.
It’s kind of amazing that St. Louis is perceived as a big market in both baseball and hockey.
The cardinals and the blues are considered by fans to be “teams with money.”
Funny that we really punch above our weight as a sports market. Should definitely be a 3 of 4 big 4 sports city.
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/11/20/cnbc-of ... -2024.html
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/11/20/nhl-val ... blues.html
The Blues are still managing to trend upward even though the team is
- still stuck under the bad concessions contract previous owner Dave Checketts used to take the money and run with.
- also stuck with a not good TV contract
- doesn't have much other revenue sources like parking and attached attractions
Plus the Blues play nice with the league offices. Various rumors of a return to Europe, a Stadium Series game or another Winter Classic at Busch.
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Went to Winter Classic at Wrigley. Wow, blues fans showed out. Expected it to be 80-20 Blackhawks. It was closer to 60-40 Blackhawks and the Blues fans were louder pregame and during the game. It was honestly a Blues invasion. Really showed the hockey world how great of a fan base it is. I’ve found Enterprise to be a more energetic atmosphere than United too. I think it would be fair to put Blues fan base in the conversation for a top 5 US NHL fanbase with how sustained it has been since the mid 2010s.
TV ratings were in the dumper though. That was the whole point of them moving it to NYE was to avoid going head to head with the CFB bowl games.delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑Jan 05, 2025Went to Winter Classic at Wrigley. Wow, blues fans showed out. Expected it to be 80-20 Blackhawks. It was closer to 60-40 Blackhawks and the Blues fans were louder pregame and during the game. It was honestly a Blues invasion. Really showed the hockey world how great of a fan base it is. I’ve found Enterprise to be a more energetic atmosphere than United too. I think it would be fair to put Blues fan base in the conversation for a top 5 US NHL fanbase with how sustained it has been since the mid 2010s.
They've already abandoned that, next year's will be on Jan 2 in Miami.
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NYE on a weekday was a poor choice. Should've stayed on NYD where everyone is off work and there are plenty of eyeballs that will watch around or instead of CFB.
Next year on Jan 2nd, a Friday, may not be much better unless its put on at primetime.
Next year on Jan 2nd, a Friday, may not be much better unless its put on at primetime.
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Football has taken every holiday so it is tough. Winter Classic ratings are a hard read - maybe it matters that it was one horrible team and one mediocre team, idk. Game being non competitive definitely hurt. I don’t think the TV ratings are indicative of Blues fandom really.Otthouse wrote: ↑Jan 09, 2025TV ratings were in the dumper though. That was the whole point of them moving it to NYE was to avoid going head to head with the CFB bowl games.delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑Jan 05, 2025Went to Winter Classic at Wrigley. Wow, blues fans showed out. Expected it to be 80-20 Blackhawks. It was closer to 60-40 Blackhawks and the Blues fans were louder pregame and during the game. It was honestly a Blues invasion. Really showed the hockey world how great of a fan base it is. I’ve found Enterprise to be a more energetic atmosphere than United too. I think it would be fair to put Blues fan base in the conversation for a top 5 US NHL fanbase with how sustained it has been since the mid 2010s.
They've already abandoned that, next year's will be on Jan 2 in Miami.
Agree, just that it was the worst rated Winter Classic of all the classics. I'm sure the STL market still had a strong showing like they normally do.delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑Jan 09, 2025Football has taken every holiday so it is tough. Winter Classic ratings are a hard read - maybe it matters that it was one horrible team and one mediocre team, idk. Game being non competitive definitely hurt. I don’t think the TV ratings are indicative of Blues fandom really.Otthouse wrote: ↑Jan 09, 2025TV ratings were in the dumper though. That was the whole point of them moving it to NYE was to avoid going head to head with the CFB bowl games.delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑Jan 05, 2025Went to Winter Classic at Wrigley. Wow, blues fans showed out. Expected it to be 80-20 Blackhawks. It was closer to 60-40 Blackhawks and the Blues fans were louder pregame and during the game. It was honestly a Blues invasion. Really showed the hockey world how great of a fan base it is. I’ve found Enterprise to be a more energetic atmosphere than United too. I think it would be fair to put Blues fan base in the conversation for a top 5 US NHL fanbase with how sustained it has been since the mid 2010s.
They've already abandoned that, next year's will be on Jan 2 in Miami.
Not sure how excited I am about a Panthers Rags matchup for next year though.
They also had it competing with other NHL games for some stupid reason instead of making it the only game that day.
The Wells Fargo Center in Philadelphia is two years newer than Enterprise. It's going to get replaced.
What just happened in Philadelphia is pretty strange. The city approved tax subsidies for a new basketball arena downtown for the 76ers, but now the 76ers backed out of that and both them and the Flyers are working with Comcast on a new arena in South Philadelphia. I don't know enough about Philadelphia to know if a downtown arena would have been good or not, but hopefully the new arena is still transit accessible.
As for Enterprise, if STL ever wants to get an NBA team, they will need to build a new arena. The renovation from few years ago gave Enterprise probably until the 2030s but replacement will begin to be talked about in the coming years. Not sure where a new arena would be built though.
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Build new arena on bottle district property or build it where it’s currently located & team could play at Chaifetz arena or family arena just a few thoughts but needs to be downtown
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Current site and the new proposal have subway accessAuggie wrote:What just happened in Philadelphia is pretty strange. The city approved tax subsidies for a new basketball arena downtown for the 76ers, but now the 76ers backed out of that and both them and the Flyers are working with Comcast on a new arena in South Philadelphia. I don't know enough about Philadelphia to know if a downtown arena would have been good or not, but hopefully the new arena is still transit accessible.
At nearly $800 million, just build a new arena.
How much was put into Enterprise Center for the 2017-2019 renovations?
How much was put into Enterprise Center for the 2017-2019 renovations?
The planned renovation includes Xcel Energy Center, the Roy Wilkins Auditorium, and the RiverCentre Convention Center. So it is more than just Xcel. Still seems like it's way too much though.
Enterprise's renovations were $150M.
Enterprise's renovations were $150M.
Gotcha. I didn’t catch that before the paywall went up.
The city of St. Louis shouldered most of the burden to renovate the Stifel Theater at $80 million 15 years ago.
Yea and I think Stifel is a more valuable venue than Roy Wilkins. The RiverCentre is a 163k sf convention center too, so nowhere near America's Center.
So for Enterprise renovation, Stifel renovation, and America's Center expansion, we spent about $568M 2025 dollars vs their $769M.
In real dollars we spent $485M.
So I think that seems like it's too much, but they claim it will generate $100M more in economic activity
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^Honestly, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the entire project is pretty comparable just to Kiel/Stiefel/Enterprise. There's a fair bit of convention space in there too, though I'm not finding an exact amount of square footage. (There are four large ballrooms and a club, all of which are individually accessible and can be isolated from one another. On top of the theatre.) It sounds to me like both venues have similar histories; a civic theatre and auditorium with a shared stage, but they tore down the smaller theatre half for a smaller arena there and the larger auditorium half for a larger arena here. So the better comparison would be to leave the America's Center out of it completely. I think you'd end up with at least similar capacities and convention space. So yeah, it sounds like they're asking for a very large pile of cash.
PWHL Takeover Tour is at Enterprise today. 7.5k tickets out pre game, looks pretty much sold out (it's lower bowl only). Easily could have opened the upper bowl. St. Louis' best chance at another professional team is probably the PWHL before anything else.
Announced attendance was 8,578
Announced attendance was 8,578