Right - sorry, meant to include the other teams as well. I think the same holds true for our other sports. I attended many a Colts game in Indianapolis with maybe 20K fans. The Rams don't get to that level and the Blues have been selling out even though they haven't been in the upper tier of teams. Hockey teams in other markets have severe attendance problems.DOGTOWNB&R wrote:Addressed that in my post:
The only sport that fans have blind loyalty to is obviously the Cardinals. My comments only relate to the Blues and Rams.
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^Well, I guess we’ll have to see if Indy fans go back to being fair weather fans after having all of the success. If they ever start losing again and only 20K fans show up, they would be considered fair weather fans to me. Also, don’t forget, the Blues did not start ‘selling out’ until they started winning. In Checketts first year, attendance was not very good. It was not very good until they made that second half surge into the 6th spot in the Western Conference playoffs. Again, you have to take the term ‘sell out’ with a grain of salt. When you have endless buy one, get one free promotions, deeply discounted tickets and giveaways, the term is not so relevant. I love the Blues and the Checketts regime, but I’d like to see attendance figures if they had zero promotions or giveaways and their tix were priced as high as other teams in the upper tier of the league. Might not be a pretty sight.
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^ Every single pro team in every sport does promos, discounts and giveaways. Maybe some more than others, but I don't believe that you can attribute attendance to things like that.
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Obviously, you are not on the Blues mailing list. I received buy one get one free offers for almost EVERY game. That is NOT normal for a pro franchise. Free food games are not the norm. Pay your mortgage/rent for a year promos are not normal. I give the regime credit. They have gone above and beyond what ANY team in this town will and has done, to keep fans coming through the gates. Believe me, I have been a hardcore Blues fan my entire life and this franchise has NEVER given away tickets like the Blues have in the past 2 years and especially this season because the team underachieved and never got into the top 8 in the west. Checketts had to build from the ground up. The team was in the tank. He used VERY aggressive methods to get fans back in the building. You cannot compare these promos to those of the average team, that did not go through the turmoil the Blues did.
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Perhaps one of the reasons why seats were being offered so cheaply is because the business model for so many professional sports has changed to focus less on revenues primarily from ticket sales to revenues from ancillary purchases within the facility. Or: You make more money selling $9 beers and $5 bratwursts than you make getting people in the door, so why not give more discounts on ticket prices?
It’s kind of like how department stores and shopping malls first started hosting Santa Claus, getting the children to sit on his lap and get their picture taken for free (or a nominal fee). The main goal was getting butts in the door, where they then were targets of product sales. It’s a similar thing here, bringing people in the doors under the named objective of a service (watching the game), then capitalizing on their consuming products (the aforementioned beer and bratwursts, plus jerseys, hats, posters, and other official memorabilia). In the absence of a television contract, and right after selling skyboxes & advertising, the principal money’s now made only after the butts are in the seats.
General point: Without going into qualifying what is and what is not a “fair weather fan”, the general fan of professional sports has changed over the years. Where people used to be entertained enough by the plays on the field/rink/court, we now are inundated with multiple points-of-contact to feed the changing demands of the consumer. For baseball fans: remember how the biggest secondary entertainment was seeing Fredbird and singing “Take Me Out To The Ballgame”, way back before there were the t-shirt slingshots, random cameras through the crowds, televised “hidden ball under a hat” games, batting cages, “read the scoreboard” contests, dance-offs, and text message broadcasts along the sideline scoreboards? Fans demand more now; the game itself is not enough.
For being able to engage the fans like they have, I commend Checketts’ management team.
It’s kind of like how department stores and shopping malls first started hosting Santa Claus, getting the children to sit on his lap and get their picture taken for free (or a nominal fee). The main goal was getting butts in the door, where they then were targets of product sales. It’s a similar thing here, bringing people in the doors under the named objective of a service (watching the game), then capitalizing on their consuming products (the aforementioned beer and bratwursts, plus jerseys, hats, posters, and other official memorabilia). In the absence of a television contract, and right after selling skyboxes & advertising, the principal money’s now made only after the butts are in the seats.
General point: Without going into qualifying what is and what is not a “fair weather fan”, the general fan of professional sports has changed over the years. Where people used to be entertained enough by the plays on the field/rink/court, we now are inundated with multiple points-of-contact to feed the changing demands of the consumer. For baseball fans: remember how the biggest secondary entertainment was seeing Fredbird and singing “Take Me Out To The Ballgame”, way back before there were the t-shirt slingshots, random cameras through the crowds, televised “hidden ball under a hat” games, batting cages, “read the scoreboard” contests, dance-offs, and text message broadcasts along the sideline scoreboards? Fans demand more now; the game itself is not enough.
For being able to engage the fans like they have, I commend Checketts’ management team.
honestly, I don't know how teams stay afloat in secondary/tertiary markets.
NHL season lasts almost all year, MLB has 160 games, NASCAR goes from Feb to Nov. NFL added 3 three games and more preseason games.
If I were a fan of just one team, I couldn't afford to attend the games like I'd want.
And if I take my family of five to just one Cardinals, Blues, Billikins, Athletica, Rams, Mizzou game each, I've blown my professional sports entertainment budget.
So whatever the Blues have to do feed their schedule's voracious attendance appetite, more power to them.
NHL season lasts almost all year, MLB has 160 games, NASCAR goes from Feb to Nov. NFL added 3 three games and more preseason games.
If I were a fan of just one team, I couldn't afford to attend the games like I'd want.
And if I take my family of five to just one Cardinals, Blues, Billikins, Athletica, Rams, Mizzou game each, I've blown my professional sports entertainment budget.
So whatever the Blues have to do feed their schedule's voracious attendance appetite, more power to them.
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I think this has not been for the better. YMMV.Gone Corporate wrote:Fans demand more now; the game itself is not enough.
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^^I think the game would be enough, if the product on the field was top notch. If our teams were competing for a championship every season, the team and game would be enough. You did not hear anyone complaining about the Rams/Dome atmosphere/music etc.. when Warner, Faulk, Bruce, Holt and company were doing the bob and weave and winning the Super Bowl. At that point, I could have cared less about anything but the Rams winning the SB. Same with the Cards in and Blues. Then again, I am a sports fan first. Not everyone is that into the actual game.
^I have to disagree. The Cardinals were one of the most successful teams of the last decade, but they have all the extraneous crap going on during games just like everybody else. They have kiss cam and t-shirt cannons and all that other stuff going on at Yankee Stadium, Joe Louis Arena, and the Staples Center. When you make it so most of the fanbase can't afford to attend a game on a regular basis the people at the games won't be necessarily be your hardcore fans, but rather people who can afford to be there.
That might be overly simplistic, but that is the way I see it.
And as for the Dome, the atmosphere has always been lame. In fact during the GSOT years the atmosphere was the only thing to complain about; terrible sound system, 80s era KSHE playlist, mediocre fans. I remember clearly being told to sit down during third downs on a Monday night game by the people behind me. I'm passionate about St. Louis sports, but it seems more and more that the people who attend the games are there to be entertained more than anything else. Regardless of the quality of the product on the field.
That might be overly simplistic, but that is the way I see it.
And as for the Dome, the atmosphere has always been lame. In fact during the GSOT years the atmosphere was the only thing to complain about; terrible sound system, 80s era KSHE playlist, mediocre fans. I remember clearly being told to sit down during third downs on a Monday night game by the people behind me. I'm passionate about St. Louis sports, but it seems more and more that the people who attend the games are there to be entertained more than anything else. Regardless of the quality of the product on the field.
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^ I see your point as well as Gone Corporates, but it is hard for someone like myself to think about all of the 'crap' going on because I am usually too into the game. BTW, didn't say the 'crap' isn't there, just saying it would not be a necessity if the fan base was energized by the team and it's play. I know that the modern sporting event is full of the 'crap' and always will be. It is nice for kids and the casual fan, but I dont much care for it, but understand it's place and purpose. Like I said, I am in the category of 'diehard' or 'hardcore' when it comes to sports. I am in the minority, that does not need to see the hat dance on the jumbotron, the mascot dancing on the dugout or any non-game activity. I think it is a good tool to keep the casual to not so casual fan interested and do not have an issue with it, but can't relate to those who need it. I agree, the Dome has a terrible atmosphere. I can't stand it. During the 'Greatest Show on Turf' days, I can assure you, the majority of the talk, by far, was about the team, playoffs, Super Bowl etc.. not the Dome. I heard the grumblings back then, but they were not nearly as loud as they are now.
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You gotta be a real grump not to like the kiss cam or celebrity/tv show look-a-likes. Those get me every time.
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^I have to give it to you, when they nail celebrity look-alikes, it is pretty funny. When they bomb, they bomb. Sometimes they get it so right, that you have to wonder if they didn't place a look-alike in the crowd. I admit I also like when the Blues put a fan from the opposing team on the jumbotron doing something funny, stupid or gross. That is fake for sure, but many don't realize it. Still very funny! See, not a grump at all, just love the intensity and skill of athletes and sports. One thing that has caused the need for all of the extra stuff is the fact that there are so many stoppages in play, due to TV timeouts. I hate that aspect of all sports, but Football is the worst. What a way to kill the flow of a game. College basketball is brutal too. Without all of the TV timeouts, I'd have to imagine we'd see less of the extra stuff.
As the old saying goes, 'winning changes everything.' No one cared how bad the Dome was when we had, what, the longest winning home streak in the NFL.
Likewise, nobody cared STL was not in the county and there was no regional govt, when the city had 850,000 residents. If STL sees a mega boom due to China hub, let's say, talk of 'unigov' will kind of go away.
Likewise, nobody cared STL was not in the county and there was no regional govt, when the city had 850,000 residents. If STL sees a mega boom due to China hub, let's say, talk of 'unigov' will kind of go away.
I agree the team was the primary focus, and as bad as the atmosphere of the Dome was/is I would have watched that team play about anywhere.DOGTOWNB&R wrote:I agree, the Dome has a terrible atmosphere. I can't stand it. During the 'Greatest Show on Turf' days, I can assure you, the majority of the talk, by far, was about the team, playoffs, Super Bowl etc.. not the Dome. I heard the grumblings back then, but they were not nearly as loud as they are now.
And once Mike Martz began his descent into madness complaints about the Dome seemed to take a back seat to what ever crazy ass thing he was saying or doing.
Nothing like the old TD/PAT - Commercial Break - Kickoff - Commercial Break to keep the crowd in the game after a big score.DOGTOWNB&R wrote: I hate that aspect of all sports, but Football is the worst. What a way to kill the flow of a game.
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And then spend 5 minutes reviewing a call that is 95% likely to have been correct to start with. Make the call, right or wrong, and move on. The NFL has gotten so boring over the past 10 years or so.ebo wrote:Nothing like the old TD/PAT - Commercial Break - Kickoff - Commercial Break to keep the crowd in the game after a big score.DOGTOWNB&R wrote: I hate that aspect of all sports, but Football is the worst. What a way to kill the flow of a game.
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http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=324934#YourCallTop
Blues acquire Halek from Montreal!
Good to see the organization doing things to improve. They always said they'd use some of their youth to get talent via trade. They finally did! I hope he wasn't a one hit wonder in this years playoffs. Time will tell.
Blues acquire Halek from Montreal!
Good to see the organization doing things to improve. They always said they'd use some of their youth to get talent via trade. They finally did! I hope he wasn't a one hit wonder in this years playoffs. Time will tell.
Big win (especially mentally) for the Blues last night. They took out a Nashville team that boasted the best record in hockey. I know it is early, but I am very excited about our goaltending. The big difference this year is obviously in net. For once, the Blues have a true #1 goalie! The Blues still have trouble scoring, but now they have a goalie that can shut the door. What a great acquisition!!! If they can get more goals, maybe add a scorer down the road, this team will be very dangerous.
GO BLUES!!!!!
GO BLUES!!!!!
That was a very nice win last night against a very good Nashville team. Plus I think the Blues have been snakebit when playing there and haven't won in Nashville for like 3 seasons.DOGTOWNB&R wrote:Big win (especially mentally) for the Blues last night. They took out a Nashville team that boasted the best record in hockey. I know it is early, but I am very excited about our goaltending. The big difference this year is obviously in net. For once, the Blues have a true #1 goalie! The Blues still have trouble scoring, but now they have a goalie that can shut the door. What a great acquisition!!! If they can get more goals, maybe add a scorer down the road, this team will be very dangerous.
GO BLUES!!!!!
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That comeback vs the thrashers sat. night - wow!
Kinda quiet the first 2 periods, but after a few bad calls, Scottrade erupted and the crowd went bananas. No doubt the team responded to the energy and the comeback ensued. The Oshie shootout goal was just dirty. The goalie knew it was coming and still couldn't stop it. Go Blues!
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Kinda quiet the first 2 periods, but after a few bad calls, Scottrade erupted and the crowd went bananas. No doubt the team responded to the energy and the comeback ensued. The Oshie shootout goal was just dirty. The goalie knew it was coming and still couldn't stop it. Go Blues!
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Blues ranked #1 in this week's ESPN power rankings. Take it however you want, but the Blues have been getting a ton of attention and praise lately from the national media. If anything, I think this will add to the young team's confidence.
http://espn.go.com/nhl/powerrankings
http://espn.go.com/nhl/powerrankings
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While not a good thing for the Blues (I think?), maybe this could be a net win for StL. A good buyer steps up to keep the team here long term, and Checketts takes his portion of the sale and finally gets us an MLS franchise!
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He's already got an MLS franchise. Once he sells the Blues, he's gone.newstl2020 wrote:While not a good thing for the Blues (I think?), maybe this could be a net win for StL. A good buyer steps up to keep the team here long term, and Checketts takes his portion of the sale and finally gets us an MLS franchise!