^^I disagree. I don't think its a loss at all. SLU can expand other programs at their main campus now without having to tearing down anything.
This will also force the city to do more with the area around Soldier's memorial and the gateway mall. Its incredibly poorly lit around that there at night and there are quite a few homeless and misfits. I hope SLU demands that the city do something to keep their students and faculty safe around there.
the central scrutinizer wrote:This could also be an additional justification for a future street car running down Olive from SLU (and beyond?) to downtown.
I would like to think of transit as being a driver of economic development, but for too long people have thought that parking performs this role. There are two parking garages here, several surface lots, and on-street in the area is never full. So it's pretty easy to park here and if time is money people will do that. I also question if lawyers have ever been a big transit demographic in St. Louis.
Why is this a good deal for the City? We have moved people from Midtown to Downtown. This is not a net gain and I bet SLU will ask for incentives from the City to upgrade the building, which it does not have to give. We have feral dogs and furloughs. While it's great that downtown will have more life on the street, it's not like this is being transported from West County or Chicago. I will eat my words when lawyers become the largest purchaser of downtown condos in the next 10 years.
Pessimism duly noted. I can't imagine the city giving SLU much on this. It appears that SLU announced the move rather suddenly. Why would the city give money for an already announced move? They also won't be using historic tax credits. Wouldn't it just be brilliant if they applied for the National Register though? . They got the building for free, so they'll likely still way under budget.
The move is important because SLU needed space on its Frost Campus. The school is growing and healthy - Midtown won't suffer from the move, but downtown will gain quite a lot.
While I have certainly been at odds with SLU over many issues (deservedly so), I have to give credit where it is due. As they say, you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar (though in fairness it is said you catch the most with dead squirrels), so I would like to applaud SLU's decision to adapt and reuse a major vacant building. This needs to become standard policy for the University. The loss on Lindell was a tragedy and all too typical, but today I would like to focus on another major adaptive reuse project coming to a major building downtown.
doug wrote: I also question if lawyers have ever been a big transit demographic in St. Louis.
Maybe not, but most of the people at the school will be students, not lawyers. Students can be major transit users, especially if incentives are in place (limited parking, subsidized transit passes, etc).
rawest1 wrote:The biggest concern among most people I've talked to has been...
Get ready for it....
Whether there will be enough parking.
I'm not joking.
Lol, it wouldn't be St. Louis without people demanding more parking than is actually usable.
Great move for everyone imo...I had the privilege of attending Seton Hall Law for a year in New Jersey...The law school is in downtown Newark while the Universitys campus was in South Orange...it really seemed to make sense to have the law school in the central business district near all the courts...not to mention near Penn station...
landmarks wrote:While I have certainly been at odds with SLU over many issues (deservedly so), I have to give credit where it is due. As they say, you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar (though in fairness it is said you catch the most with dead squirrels), so I would like to applaud SLU's decision to adapt and reuse a major vacant building. This needs to become standard policy for the University. The loss on Lindell was a tragedy and all too typical, but today I would like to focus on another major adaptive reuse project coming to a major building downtown.
Exactly. It's nice to know there are still people out there capable of seeing the forest for the trees.
First off, I am not a fan of SLU's normal tactics regarding campus expansion. However, this move is great, especially for downtown. It will bring increased foot track to the area, along with over 1,000 students. While Midtown my suffer slightly at first, I do not think it will long term.
As someone stated, SLU is doing very well right now. Every year, they are getting more applicants and becoming more selective. Plus, if Biondi is good at anything, its fundraising. Compared to its competitors (Marquette, Depaul, Dayton, etc.), SLU typically gives out more scholarships and financial aid. It has MUCH deeper pockets and is in much better shape financially. In fact, its endowment is approaching $1 billion, which is closer to schools like Georgetown, Carnegie Mellon, Boston College, and George Washington than the aforementioned schools.
Ultimately, Biondi has a grand vision of becoming a top 40 university in America. Part of that vision is to increase enrollment, especially graduate level enrollment. Therefore, I don't think you will see Midtown ultimately suffer. In fact, I would look for Biondi to aggressively increase some other graduate programs on campus, thus attracting new students to Midtown.
Completely unrelated...but wouldn't it be awesome to see Lindenwood or UMSL follow suit with downtown programs? I know Lindenwood is expanding and the Public Policy program at UMSL would be a great fit downtown. Students traveling from UMSL can already get back and forth on Metro....I would suggest Wash U expand downtown but I don't ever see that happening.
Lindenwood offers undergraduate and graduate classes for its evening LCIE program at the Wash Ave location...classes meet once a week for four hours in the evening...classes offered on Mon through Thursdays I believe depending on the degree...great program if you're working full time...
A 1000 young people downtown by August? How is this not some of the best news in recent years? It's not on the drawing board or the subject of a 300 page forum thread. It appears to be a done deal. Was anyone expecting this or did this sort of happen out of the blue? This is great news.
leeharveyawesome wrote:A 1000 young people downtown by August? How is this not some of the best news in recent years? It's not on the drawing board or the subject of a 300 page forum thread. It appears to be a done deal. Was anyone expecting this or did this sort of happen out of the blue? This is great news.
I agree, it's the best news I've heard about downtown in quite a while. And perhaps I missed something since this must have been in the works awhile, but it's also pleasantly unexpected.
We're mostly focused on the effect on downtown, but I think this is more important for SLU than for downtown. Smart move on their part. IMO - the paradigm may have shifted (and our attitudes should as well). Downtown was the magnate in this case. No special TIF was needed, no free demo. SLU is going to benefit greatly from moving downtown. This isn't entirely dissimilar to the point I've made about SLU Med. The school benefits from being in the city. SLU didn't want to build the new med building out of charity or their love of the city. They want it because being in the city has huge advantages. With those advantages should come a realization that the city demands something in return.
This does explain Summer Bay Resorts moving out...
In general, I think this will be good for SLU, downtown, and the City as a whole. I am most interested to see how this can effect the housing and retail/restaurant market in the surrounding area, and for different reasons, the office market.
^Great question. A 19 month construction schedule would be a bit more comforting in terms of the quality of the build-out and the magnitude of the investment they're making. Especially considering they need a new law library, court rooms, theater-style classrooms, IT and AV equipment, etc.... not to mention a new skin on the building.
landmarks wrote:The loss on Lindell was a tragedy and all too typical, but today I would like to focus on another major adaptive reuse project coming to a major building downtown.
Fair enough. This is obviously a good thing from a land use and economic development standpoint. If it was someone else besides SLU I wouldn't mention anything. But people in St. Louis are far too forgiving and seem to have short memories. If we want policies to change we can't let institutions make ridiculous decisions for decades, only to do one good thing and expect people to forget. Shouldn't we hold people accountable? Maybe that's the nature of St. Louis, where we have so few actors in the game and you simply have to work with them.
In the future if we keep filling up buildings along Tucker then perhaps we could discuss how wide it is and if that size suits the current needs of people in our City. The garages and the excessive road capacity on this street destroy our streetscape, disconnect downtown, and take up valuable space for future density and other forms of transportation. Downtown is one of the few places in the City on a trajectory of growth. So I think these are issues that should be on peoples minds as they are in other cities. We can make logical choices instead of ad hoc decisions. We make a plan and stick to it.
Awesome for Downtown; Timing is perfect as we trend out of a residential development slump; Perhaps a little "give and take" as SLU attempts to develop the Peveley complex?
This is great news. Perhaps the recent library renovation also was a factor in the move.
My biggest worry for future downtown development is the infrastructure. Outside Washington Avenue, downtown has an embarrassing streetscape and public infrastructure. Downtown needs to expand its CID to at least Jefferson and sidewalk and street improvements need to be the next big push. This is a problem I see all over the St. Louis area. So much money given in TIFs and "business" incentives when the public infrastructure is in shambles!
I would also like to see some street trees out front. Some exterior improvements will also be appreciated. Neon signs and lighting should be mandatory. lol
goat314 wrote: This is a problem I see all over the St. Louis area. So much money given in TIFs and "business" incentives when the public infrastructure is in shambles!
I don't want to hijack the thread, but that is a great point. TIF abuse runs rampant, and then people rail against the gub'mint when infrastructure improvements are proposed. Go figure.
Alex Ihnen wrote:Maybe I'm stating the obvious, but TIF is very often for infrastructure improvements - sidewalks, trees, drainage, street paving, etc.
Not often for, TIF can only be used for infrastructure. Well, that's what TIF law says, but money is fungible.
. They got the building for free, so they'll likely still way under budget.
