urbanSTL

ThreeOneFour wrote:I think you've got it- the answer is all of the above.



Simply Fondue increased their exposure by offering discounted gift certificates on the Show-Me St. Louis and KMOX websites. We used those for a couple of our visits, which made going whole hog a bit more affordable even though it was still an expensive meal overall.



That said, they had a pretty good selection of entrees, so a bloke and his better half could just get entrees with a cheese or a chocolate fondue and not spend as much money, which we did on our other visits there.



Too bad, because I thought it was a great little place.

You may have been one of the reasons a place like this didn't make it. When a restaurant does promotions like the $25 coupon they are counting on patrons spending a lot to make up for the loss they have on the coupon and then coming back and spending a great deal more on the next visit. If you went there two times on the cheap and the 3rd time you went there you economized, that is, a cheese plate or maybe a fondue, they really lost dollars having you as a customer. They need customers with big tabs, drinks, several nice entrees a dessert and a really nice tip. And maybe even bring a another couple along to really make for a good table. I have seen it time and time again. Nice restaurants that offer cheap deals get cheap customers which eventually leads to them closing. If you really want to see a place succeed, don't use the coupon, pay the full tab so they can make a profit off of you. Oh and order and spend a little extra to show how much you care. Most wait staff do not like coupon customers, because the tab is small and they tip on the discounted amount, not the full amount.

lamiaposta wrote:

ThreeOneFour wrote:I think you've got it- the answer is all of the above.



Simply Fondue increased their exposure by offering discounted gift certificates on the Show-Me St. Louis and KMOX websites. We used those for a couple of our visits, which made going whole hog a bit more affordable even though it was still an expensive meal overall.



That said, they had a pretty good selection of entrees, so a bloke and his better half could just get entrees with a cheese or a chocolate fondue and not spend as much money, which we did on our other visits there.



Too bad, because I thought it was a great little place.

You may have been one of the reasons a place like this didn't make it. When a restaurant does promotions like the $25 coupon they are counting on patrons spending a lot to make up for the loss they have on the coupon and then coming back and spending a great deal more on the next visit. If you went there two times on the cheap and the 3rd time you went there you economized, that is, a cheese plate or maybe a fondue, they really lost dollars having you as a customer. They need customers with big tabs, drinks, several nice entrees a dessert and a really nice tip. And maybe even bring a another couple along to really make for a good table. I have seen it time and time again. Nice restaurants that offer cheap deals get cheap customers which eventually leads to them closing. If you really want to see a place succeed, don't use the coupon, pay the full tab so they can make a profit off of you. Oh and order and spend a little extra to show how much you care. Most wait staff do not like coupon customers, because the tab is small and they tip on the discounted amount, not the full amount.

Is it better that someone comes and uses a coupon than doesn't come at all? Not all people have a ton of money to spend, but still like to be able to enjoy a good meal once in a while. Even an economy entree should be priced so the house can make some money. The people with not a lot of money to spend may tell their friends that they got a good meal and they may come with more money to spend.



Disappointing that SF could not make it. For as far as downtown has come, there is a long way to go.

lamiaposta wrote:

ThreeOneFour wrote:I think you've got it- the answer is all of the above.



Simply Fondue increased their exposure by offering discounted gift certificates on the Show-Me St. Louis and KMOX websites. We used those for a couple of our visits, which made going whole hog a bit more affordable even though it was still an expensive meal overall.



That said, they had a pretty good selection of entrees, so a bloke and his better half could just get entrees with a cheese or a chocolate fondue and not spend as much money, which we did on our other visits there.



Too bad, because I thought it was a great little place.

You may have been one of the reasons a place like this didn't make it. When a restaurant does promotions like the $25 coupon they are counting on patrons spending a lot to make up for the loss they have on the coupon and then coming back and spending a great deal more on the next visit. If you went there two times on the cheap and the 3rd time you went there you economized, that is, a cheese plate or maybe a fondue, they really lost dollars having you as a customer. They need customers with big tabs, drinks, several nice entrees a dessert and a really nice tip. And maybe even bring a another couple along to really make for a good table. I have seen it time and time again. Nice restaurants that offer cheap deals get cheap customers which eventually leads to them closing. If you really want to see a place succeed, don't use the coupon, pay the full tab so they can make a profit off of you. Oh and order and spend a little extra to show how much you care. Most wait staff do not like coupon customers, because the tab is small and they tip on the discounted amount, not the full amount.

If they don't want people to use coupons, then don't put them out. Ever thought that perhaps the coupons were used for exposure? Do you not think that ThreeOneFour would have ever been back once the coupons stopped coming out?



If they put them out, I'm using it. If they go under, it's unfortunate, but it's not my fault for using them.



Use your brain.

This is sooooooooooo sad! I've been out of town, but my boyfriend and I have been meaning to go to help support them since we kept hearing rumors of the closing...of course, we finally had free time to go this week and now it's too late We absolutely LOVED this place-- the food, drinks, atomsphere, staff-- everything about it was fabulous. We recommended it to as many people as we could and I just wish they would have made it. I still have 3 of the half-price gift certs left, but I'm not even upset about wasting money on that since I'm so sad that the place is done! I just got back from chicago and just kills me how st louis just really struggles it seems to get people to come down here and do things and support the area. Just makes me so upset when nice places like this close down-- it's a big loss

MattnSTL wrote:

lamiaposta wrote:

ThreeOneFour wrote:I think you've got it- the answer is all of the above.



Simply Fondue increased their exposure by offering discounted gift certificates on the Show-Me St. Louis and KMOX websites. We used those for a couple of our visits, which made going whole hog a bit more affordable even though it was still an expensive meal overall.



That said, they had a pretty good selection of entrees, so a bloke and his better half could just get entrees with a cheese or a chocolate fondue and not spend as much money, which we did on our other visits there.



Too bad, because I thought it was a great little place.

You may have been one of the reasons a place like this didn't make it. When a restaurant does promotions like the $25 coupon they are counting on patrons spending a lot to make up for the loss they have on the coupon and then coming back and spending a great deal more on the next visit. If you went there two times on the cheap and the 3rd time you went there you economized, that is, a cheese plate or maybe a fondue, they really lost dollars having you as a customer. They need customers with big tabs, drinks, several nice entrees a dessert and a really nice tip. And maybe even bring a another couple along to really make for a good table. I have seen it time and time again. Nice restaurants that offer cheap deals get cheap customers which eventually leads to them closing. If you really want to see a place succeed, don't use the coupon, pay the full tab so they can make a profit off of you. Oh and order and spend a little extra to show how much you care. Most wait staff do not like coupon customers, because the tab is small and they tip on the discounted amount, not the full amount.

Is it better that someone comes and uses a coupon than doesn't come at all? Not all people have a ton of money to spend, but still like to be able to enjoy a good meal once in a while. Even an economy entree should be priced so the house can make some money. The people with not a lot of money to spend may tell their friends that they got a good meal and they may come with more money to spend.



Disappointing that SF could not make it. For as far as downtown has come, there is a long way to go.

In theory yes, in reality no. If it worked, they maybe would not have gone out of business. Failure is never a good measurement of how good something works. Many of the bloggers on here refer to using half price certificates which really does not make any money for a restuarant. Half price is breaking even for most places and no profit. I am curious if any one who love' d this place so much ever paid full price ever.

No matter what he/she tipped, hopefully the waiter/waitress earned you. You have to earn a tip, not expect one.

Here's a novel idea. If you really care and want to show your appreciation for the great times you had at SF, send them a check for $25 or even better yet, what you would have spent on your next visit. Oh, please do not use your half price coupon. This will not pay off the owners dedt, but will at least make him/her feel like someone really cared. And don't forget to post your donation on the blog, that may incourage others. Just for the record, I never ate there, been there or even know the owners. Just know how it is to struggle in business, how it feels when things do not go well and hate to see other businesses close downtown because I am a downtown residence and believe in the future of downtown. Like they say, we are all in the Hood together.

You never ate there, and you live downtown?



How's it feel to be part of the problem?

JuiceInDogtown wrote:You never ate there, and you live downtown?



How's it feel to be part of the problem?

Yep, fondue is not my thing. And I can name half a dozen other places I have not ate at downtown but do not consider myself part of the problem. At least I live downtown, own a business dowtown and support some of the places that are of my liking. Didn't have much interest in the whole fondue thing and apparently some other people who live downtown felt the same way. Just can't support them all for the moment. SF was your pride and joy, not mine. But I know you will find great comfort and you will have a certain solitude in knowing you sent your $25donation to SF.

When did any of the recent posters say SF was their pride and joy, and why would anyone send a donation to them? People can support what they want when they want and use discounts when they want. I see no harm in using a discount when offered. And yes, I have worked in the food service industry for over 4 years, including management, so I know the effect of discounts and tipping. I in fact did make a donation, because I still had one of the $25 gift certificates that was unused and I was actually planning use this week. I could have been a better customer, but going to a particular nicer restaurant twice in one year would have been a lot for me. But a poor 22 year old student is probably not their target demographic.

lamiaposta wrote:You may have been one of the reasons a place like this didn't make it. When a restaurant does promotions like the $25 coupon they are counting on patrons spending a lot to make up for the loss they have on the coupon and then coming back and spending a great deal more on the next visit. If you went there two times on the cheap and the 3rd time you went there you economized, that is, a cheese plate or maybe a fondue, they really lost dollars having you as a customer. They need customers with big tabs, drinks, several nice entrees a dessert and a really nice tip. And maybe even bring a another couple along to really make for a good table. I have seen it time and time again. Nice restaurants that offer cheap deals get cheap customers which eventually leads to them closing. If you really want to see a place succeed, don't use the coupon, pay the full tab so they can make a profit off of you. Oh and order and spend a little extra to show how much you care. Most wait staff do not like coupon customers, because the tab is small and they tip on the discounted amount, not the full amount.

I'm sorry, but this is patently ridiculous. You're wrong to assume...



- My wife and I went 'on the cheap' because of the discount. Not true. Besides, why should anyone feel guilty about taking advantage of a discount?



(You know, I really like my car, but amazingly, I never feel guilty because I paid far less than the MSRP when I bought it last year. By your standards, I guess I'll have only myself to blame if the Bommarito Automotive Group and/or Mazda ever go out of business.)



- We didn't spend a significant amount of money on each visit just because we didn't order the four-course fondue meal each time.



- Our drinks and a la carte selections didn't drive up the bill substantially even when we didn't order the four course meal.



- We didn't tip the full amount. We tipped for the full amount, and since we had exceptional service on each visit, we tipped generously. Do you think I fell off the turnip truck just because I had the audacity to use a bloody gift certificate a couple of times? You'll notice I said a gift certificate, and not a coupon. You've made a lot of assumptions about me and others here, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and I'll assume you know the difference.



I really wanted the place to succeed, so I visited multiple times without a discount. My smallest bill at Simply Fondue was still about $70. A la carte selections and multiple drinks on each visit still add up quickly- and this is money that I would've gladly spent at another upscale restaurant if SF wasn't one of our favorite dining destinations. I went five times and spent almost $500 in the process, so I still managed to drop an average of nearly $100 per visit even if my wife and I didn't get the four course meal each time.



Oh well. I don't have enough free time or disposable income to be a regular at any upscale establishment, and I'm not a $30K millionaire maxing out my credit cards either, so I'm sure I didn't do enough by your exacting standards to support what was my favorite downtown restaurant. You made some valid points along the way about the restaurant business- too bad you obscured them with broad brushtrokes.

You never ate there, and you live downtown?



How's it feel to be part of the problem?

...that is the most asanine comment made on this board.



Just because I live downtown doesnt mean I have an obligation to go out to eat at restaurants here. A restuarant has to earn my business, this is not charity.



My wife and I went to Simply Fondue twice for dinner and once for dessert. Both times we went for dinner our service was horrible. We were offered a free meal after the first time but declined and went back to pay full price and it happened again. THe time we went for dessert the service was fine and we sat in the bar.



Now I did host our buildings happy hours here, so we do have to find a new home for that, and my wife loved their martini list, so that is unfortunate. The truth is though that if I really was craving fondue I would go to the Melting Pot which blew this place away, seriously, not even in the same league.



So call me part of the problem as well if you must, but I refuse to feel obligated to go somewhere substandard just because it is downtown.

mophipsi wrote:

You never ate there, and you live downtown?



How's it feel to be part of the problem?

...that is the most asanine comment made on this board.

Oh, my mistake; I thought most people on this board were familiar with sarcasm.

lamiaposta wrote:SF was your pride and joy, not mine.

Really? I've never eaten there. Simply put, I don't have the money to drop $100 on a meal. Never bought a gift certificate either. I guess I missed that part of my post.

Think they are still listed as part of DT Restaurant Week. Obviously we have heard rumors for a little while, but it would have been nice to see them try to make it through that as kind of a pick me up. May not of mattered I guess...

This loss really makes me sad for some reason. We had so much fun there on New Year's Eve.

TheWayoftheArch wrote:

mophipsi wrote:

You never ate there, and you live downtown?



How's it feel to be part of the problem?

...that is the most asanine comment made on this board.

Just because I live downtown doesnt mean I have an obligation to go out to eat at restaurants here. A restuarant has to earn my business, this is not charity.

Exactly! and yet Lamiaposta blames people who use a KMOX advantage gift certificate and actually did patronize this place multiple times with or without them as the cause of their demise. To follow up the indignant anit-coupon rant and how one must support DT restaurants in full only to state that they have never even BEEN there is hypocritical at best. How is he allowed to beg off with "its not my thing." While the rest of us still are willing to give it a shot, not because its our thing but because its a different experience. Who thing is fondue 24/7?



And does anyone believe that they would still be on business if no one with a "coupon" had not gone? No, they would still be out of business, because tey wouldn't have the other $75 bucks I spent, or 314 spent, or my GF spent, or my friends, or my parents etc.



They probably would have closed months ago.

Glad to see somebody gets it.

Gee, here's a thought. Maybe SF didn't close because of the highway closure, or the economic downturn, or downtown is failing, or a bad location, or bad service, or whatever. What is this great need to identify one cause?



Maybe it closed because there weren't enough people that want to drop $50 each on a fondue dinner and/or martinis often enough for the owners to be able to service their debt?



Ever been to New York, Chicago, San Francisco, or any other big restaurant city? Restaurants come and go. It is not uncommon at all in those cities for someone to spend a couple million on a restaurant build-out, only to close in under a year. And they have experience, great locations, the latest concepts, etc. If the restaurant business was easy, everyone would be doing it.

Who knows why it failed, but I can posit some theories.



From my impressions on my visits, the place just never seemed to be run very well. Waiters/waitresses were unfamiliar witht he menu, had no clue about the wine. On one visit we asked about a couple of the wines and the waitress responded with "I don't know anything about wine, I don't drink..." She never offered to get someone else or anything, just stood there.



They also never really marketed or advertised. This is probably the biggest issue...nobody knew they were there.



As far as Fondue being a fad, I have to disagree in that the melting pot has 2 locations and good luck getting a reservation there unless you call a couple of weeks in advance. But then again, they do it right, their staff is well trained, their wine selection is awesome and everything runs smoothly.



Simply Fondue jsut never really seemed to get it together. I am kind of sad to see it go, just because it was right across the street from our building and was convenient, but on the other hand it was mediocre and we rarely went other than for happy hour, so its not that big of a heartbreak.

mophipsi wrote:...but on the other hand it was mediocre and we rarely went other than for happy hour, so its not that big of a heartbreak.

Aha, it was your fault!

SF closed due to several factors, but people who ate there defined the success or failure. The DT crowd (generally) does have $$ to eat at a place like SF, but that same crowd (elitist?) also expect good service.



My GF and I ate there twice. Service was not good. They were out of Reisling (go figure) and had no clue of dry reds. Their beer selection was good on the menu, but I had to go through 3 bers before they found one in stock.



SF was a good concept, but without loyal customers, it was on borrowed time. I am sad to see any DT business close. I hope that space will evolve into something better.

ah all of this bickering and guilt tripping is making me undergo dejavu guilt for my beloved Red Moon which had similar issues. I seldom went there but I loved it when I did go there.

jlblues wrote:Gee, here's a thought. Maybe SF didn't close because of the highway closure, or the economic downturn, or downtown is failing, or a bad location, or bad service, or whatever. What is this great need to identify one cause?



Maybe it closed because there weren't enough people that want to drop $50 each on a fondue dinner and/or martinis often enough for the owners to be able to service their debt?

I know what you're saying, but I think some of us were playing Monday morning quarterback because we really liked the place. My wife and I went there for our wedding anniversary last year and Valentine's Day. We figured it would always be near the top of our list for special occasions. But, places come and go, and I can think of countless places where I had similar connections on some level that are no longer with us.



Not much anyone can do about it, hence the armchair analysis of SF's demise. I usually know better than to b**** about things beyond my control, but here I'm guilty as charged.

Ever been to New York, Chicago, San Francisco, or any other big restaurant city? Restaurants come and go. It is not uncommon at all in those cities for someone to spend a couple million on a restaurant build-out, only to close in under a year. And they have experience, great locations, the latest concepts, etc. If the restaurant business was easy, everyone would be doing it.

All of this is very true as well. However, St. Louis has only recently developed a wider offering of quality restaurants. It wasn't like there was a dearth before, but suddenly, you had all of these new choices, many of which are (or were) downtown. Downtown still has a long way to go- even if it's come a long way in a short time. I think we St. Louisans are a little more sensitive about closings because of this mindset, myself included, even though quality places with brilliant concepts and execution come and go (even in America's most vibrant cities as you pointed out).



We must've been lucky on our visits to Simply Fondue, because there are now several posts above referring to subpar service. Clearly the service was very uneven, because this is hardly the first I've heard about it.

According to the parent Simply Fondue website, it looks like $250K will get us started on our own SF.



Here's the link:



http://www.simplyfondue.com/franchise_invest.html