urbanSTL

moorlander wrote: ↑

Jul 07, 2017

bprop wrote:

moorlander wrote: ↑

Jul 07, 2017

It doesn't sound like the market is saturated currently. We might be saturated with proposals but that's a great problem to have and shows just how bullish hoteliers are on downtown St. Louis.

Deny one of them tax breaks, credits, and subsidy and see how bullish they remain. I'd be bullish too if I could get half of my outlay paid for upfront.

Gosh I would be too! Which hotel project received half their outlay paid upfront?

Fine.

A quarter? What would you say is TOO much? Municipal courts building for example?

Beyond the [$8 million] TIF, the $60 million project is counting on financing from state and federal historic tax credits, brownfield tax credits and an extra 2 percent in sales taxes from a Transportation Development District and Community Improvement District set up on site. About $4.9 million would come from developer equity and $20.9 million from a loan, or 43 percent of the costs.

* I don't have answer on Bprop and Moorlander's exchange

But another question in the mix. How much of the proposal development is being driven by pending tax credit reform that didn't happen this past legislative session but another commission rightly pointed out how much tax revenue is being passed up on the state level?

Or another way to look at it. A lot of these proposals might require all the needed incentives to happen as such. In that case, city can pretty much agree to everything and the state sort it out with the remaining historic and brownfield tax credits.

Close to twenty years ago I worked for the St. Louis visitor center on Washington Ave and at that time there were frequent occurrences of people looking for downtown hotel rooms but finding them all booked. Much more than I would have expected. St. Louis is a big tourism hub and so greate demand than other cities our size. My only concern is that much of tgat demand is from families and many of the planned downtown hotels are not priced for that demographic.

I know discussion of the Omni is kind of off topic but I'll continue a previous conversation instead of starting a new thread.

Does anyone know the status of the Majestic (formerly Omni Majestic) hotel? It was debranded quite a while ago. The awnings were torn down and still not replaced. If you look at TripAdvisor, it sounds like it's tanking fast (the paper/styrofoam plates in the restaurant is just ridiculous):

Our room although spacious was tired looking and not very elegant; you could not really have a bath because it was chipped and peeling.

The breakfast was bizarre. Served in an rather grand old room, you had to eat off disposable plates and with plastic cutlery!! The food itself was actually OK but what a way to have breakfast!!

Breakfast looked like it had been brought in. served on paper plates with plastic cutlery. Not clean only one lift just working. no facilities. Only pus is its not too far from arch. Told parking outside hotel on road was very safe. Car broken into. lovely. Staff not interested.

Also, the elevators were out for close to a whole day. The TV channels advertise Fox Sports Midwest in my room and I didn't get that channel. Also, they do not have enough staff to answer phones. I called the concierge number and got no answer many times. I even tried to call the main outside number and they didn't answer the phone.

Arrived the hotel and noticed "Omni" was removed from the hotel "marquee". The lobby decor was tired. One of the two small elevators was "out of order". The working elevator made a loud, rattling sound which was a bit concerning. The room was dated and the bathtub/shower very old; cracks, moldy grout. It appears the hotel restaurant was once full service. Currently, it's only used to serve a nasty complimentary breakfast complete with styrofoam plates and plastic utensils.

Really disappointed by the hotel; filthy carpets, broken and tired furnishings, very few staff and only one lift working which meant huge delays at peak times. Breakfast buffet was also poor, served on paper plates and bowls with plastic cutlery. Really grim, avoid at all costs.

We arrived on Friday evening at 9pm, parked our car in a super tiny spot, only to find out early in the morning (8am) that it was hit. When we asked the manager to check the security cameras, we were told that there is nothing that was recorded..! In addition, beds are very uncomfortable and breakfast is poor. Not to mention that you should be prepared to waste tons of your precious minutes waiting for the one and only elevator that is supposed to cover all guests from all 10 floors!!

And that's just in the last month. There are sporadic responses from management, with some mentions of renovations "this fall."

I hope they're not just milking that property until it closes. If they do plan to renovate, it's probably going to be hard to win back guests with such a run of terrible reviews.

bprop wrote: ↑

Oct 08, 2017

I know discussion of the Omni is kind of off topic but I'll continue a previous conversation instead of starting a new thread.

Does anyone know the status of the Majestic (formerly Omni Majestic) hotel? It was debranded quite a while ago. The awnings were torn down and still not replaced. If you look at TripAdvisor, it sounds like it's tanking fast (the paper/styrofoam plates in the restaurant is just ridiculous):

Our room although spacious was tired looking and not very elegant; you could not really have a bath because it was chipped and peeling.

The breakfast was bizarre. Served in an rather grand old room, you had to eat off disposable plates and with plastic cutlery!! The food itself was actually OK but what a way to have breakfast!!

Breakfast looked like it had been brought in. served on paper plates with plastic cutlery. Not clean only one lift just working. no facilities. Only pus is its not too far from arch. Told parking outside hotel on road was very safe. Car broken into. lovely. Staff not interested.

Also, the elevators were out for close to a whole day. The TV channels advertise Fox Sports Midwest in my room and I didn't get that channel. Also, they do not have enough staff to answer phones. I called the concierge number and got no answer many times. I even tried to call the main outside number and they didn't answer the phone.

Arrived the hotel and noticed "Omni" was removed from the hotel "marquee". The lobby decor was tired. One of the two small elevators was "out of order". The working elevator made a loud, rattling sound which was a bit concerning. The room was dated and the bathtub/shower very old; cracks, moldy grout. It appears the hotel restaurant was once full service. Currently, it's only used to serve a nasty complimentary breakfast complete with styrofoam plates and plastic utensils.

Really disappointed by the hotel; filthy carpets, broken and tired furnishings, very few staff and only one lift working which meant huge delays at peak times. Breakfast buffet was also poor, served on paper plates and bowls with plastic cutlery. Really grim, avoid at all costs.

We arrived on Friday evening at 9pm, parked our car in a super tiny spot, only to find out early in the morning (8am) that it was hit. When we asked the manager to check the security cameras, we were told that there is nothing that was recorded..! In addition, beds are very uncomfortable and breakfast is poor. Not to mention that you should be prepared to waste tons of your precious minutes waiting for the one and only elevator that is supposed to cover all guests from all 10 floors!!

And that's just in the last month. There are sporadic responses from management, with some mentions of renovations "this fall."

I hope they're not just milking that property until it closes. If they do plan to renovate, it's probably going to be hard to win back guests with such a run of terrible reviews.

Wondered about that place myself. I used to love that hotel. Looks terrible now.

The Majestic served as my wedding block hotel almost a year ago now. It was the Omni when we reserved it, was bought and dropped the flag a few months before, which caused some uneasiness. Our experience was still good, though, but it was clear there were needed improvements.

Back around the time of the purchase, there were plans announced by the buyer, Hawkeye Hotels, I believe, to renovate the Majestic. But I've heard absolutely nothing since. I actually reached out to Hawkeye a few months back hoping to find out more information. But I didn't receive any response. Maybe I'll try again.

Here's the article from last July on the sale and plans.

http://www.stltoday.com/business/column ... ccfa8.html

Looks like the Shell Building is back on the market. It can be yours for a cool $5.5 million

http://www.gershmancommercial.com/offic ... locust-st/

^ Does this mean Sen is not moving? They projected September to move into the old 1000 Prime and the last time I passed, it appeared stalled.

chaifetz10 wrote: ↑

Dec 12, 2017

Darn. I'm only about $5,498,726 short. Anyone want to spot me a couple mil?

Just ask the board of aldermen!

Construction on 1000 Washington has been moving along. I'd be very surprised if Sen Thai wasn't moving.
Although they did recently put paper over the windows, I hope this wasn't to hide a stalled, half-finished restaurant space.

Edit: Walked by yesterday, the side door was open, construction still trucking on.

The hotel project is back. The current owners plan to spend $38 Million on the renovation of the building into a 184 room hotel and ground floor retail space. The plan goes before the LCRA tomorrow to see if the support of the 87% tax abatement on the property for 10 years can pass. Alderwoman Tammika Hubbard is in support of the abatement. 

I'm really happy to see the Shell Building getting some TLC, but at the same time I am wondering how many more hotels Downtown can realistically support... At least until there are more consistent attractions or larger companies located Downtown.

STL526 wrote:I'm really happy to see the Shell Building getting some TLC, but at the same time I am wondering how many more hotels Downtown can realistically support... At least until there are more consistent attractions or larger companies located Downtown.

That’s the small debate going on on my social media. The hotel boom is bringing us 1600+ new rooms downtown but some insist it’s because of the Millennium closing and the City Place (Crowne Plaza) downsizing. Even then, this is a lot of rooms. In addition to this, one person has said that the influx in hotels and residential space Downtown will eventually lead to businesses and shops moving downtown. Whether or not it holds true will be seen.

Whether or not the market can support it is one thing, but seeing all of these hotels pop up in the same area is going to do absolute wonders for DTW Wash Ave. Currently the closest hotels to the main strip (Lets just say between 16th and Tucker) are at least four blocks away and located in downtown proper. To the south there are none north of Market.

Yet once these all come to fruition there will be four different hotels all within one block of Wash Ave. These hotel guests spend way more money on eating out per night than the current crowd of loft dwellers that Wash Ave currently relies on. This will be a massive and consistent infusion of money that the street hasn't seen since it's hayday in the early 2010's. Plus these tourist dollars will be far more sustainable over a long period of time than its previous reliance on people coming from the county to drink. 

Needless to say I am extremely bullish on the future of retail on this stretch of Wash Ave.

^ Some good points there Harv. You've got the City Museum and Schlafly anchors, throw in some brand new high end hotels (I've stayed at the 21C Museum Hotel in Cincy - it's REALLY nice) and 17 MLS home games and Wash Ave in DTW from 14th to 21st could really get some traction.

^^As one of those loft dwellers on the main section of Wash, I dream about seeing that level of activity from my window.  I guess I am just overly cautious and worried about a possible hotel bubble in the region eventually popping.  Regardless, money being invested into the city and a building that needs it is always good!

Could this all be a result of the Convention Center expanding?

Grab a few more big conventions per year and these hotels are going to feel it.

I think that One Cardinal Way and BPV, while corporate and a complete duplication of what you see in other markets, will actually be HUGE for downtown.

I fully expect a Two Cardinal Way to get announced before 1CW is completed.

With more retail, and more things to do, as well as a cleaner and less blighted area, I think you will see more people hop downtown.

The perception of the central corridor is changing. "$8 billion in development" has been a marketed a lot and I think that will only increase.

Maybe I'm a stupid optimist. But I think that good things are coming for downtown St. Louis.

^ Other thought(s) to throw in that mix is expected Square move downtown & increased presence in region in addition to CVC expansion/MLS, and maybe, just maybe real interest in and possibility of an anchor tenant for ATT building.  

Finally, I think NGIA will expend workforce once the new campus is built and wonder what that will mean anything in business travel if at all.   I'm assuming the Midtown connector hotel proposal on Jeff Ave has a lot to do with Wells Fargo Securities but also MSL & NGIA as well....     

Yes. Square will be huge for downtown.

I can only hope that the AT&T Tower is filled by a company from outside the region, but I wouldn't mind if a county company gets poached, either.

I forgot to mention it, but a cleaner area to live is also a cleaner area to work.

Let's fix up some of the buildings, let's get a soccer club, and let's see it turn into residential wins and business wins that turn into more residential wins and business wins.

I think what we're seeing is the start of something big.

I really do think the perception is changing.

KansasCitian wrote: Yes. Square will be huge for downtown.

I can only hope that the AT&T Tower is filled by a company from outside the region, but I wouldn't mind if a county company gets poached, either.

I forgot to mention it, but a cleaner area to live is also a cleaner area to work.

Let's fix up some of the buildings, let's get a soccer club, and let's see it turn into residential wins and business wins that turn into more residential wins and business wins.

I think what we're seeing is the start of something big.

I really do think the perception is changing.

I'm surprised Square hasn't been announced yet for the Old Post Dispatch building. Many Downtown realtors I have talked to said that is s basically a done deal and that McKelvey isn't even going to market office space at 900 North Tucker because Square is going to be the tenant.

AT&T will have a company poached from West County according to my understanding of the situation but the tenant won't be enough to fill up the building. (Let your imagination run wild on the AT&T Buildings thread.

Yes, a cleaner area to live is also cleaner to work in. For the Shell Building and the Jefferson Arms to a greater extent, I may have been a good move for Larry Rice's place to shut down. I don't like being mean towards homeless people but Lucas Park was a Homeless encampment for a long time when Rice was there. The park is also cleaner now. When the Jefferson Arms and Shell are reopened, the Homeless won't be able to camp out on the sidewalks outside of the buildings, I can guarantee that. I can also guarantee that the Shell Building developers and Alterra will request Christ Church Cathedral to give the boot to the homeless who camp out there. So this portion of Downtown will get cleaner from the loss of homeless people and their forgotten belongings.

By fixing up buildings, expanding the convention center getting an MLS team and landing a few more corporations Downtown, both big and small, we will have more wins in terms of infill and remaining buildings being redeveloped. We are seeing the start of something big and our perception is changing but the biggest changes will come in the next development cycle when almost all the remaining abandoned buildings will have been taken care of to make way for new construction in the Central Corridor. As for the closing of the Millenium Hotel, which many on Social Media are saying that this 1600+ hotel room boom Downtown was kicked off by, that I don't see being redeveloped.

The good thing about the Shell Building is that it never went 100% vacant, so the developers are catching a building now rather than waiting till it goes empty for a few years and allowing vandals to leave their mark. The remaining office tenants in the Shell will almost surely move elsewhere Downtown and take up remaining smaller office suites in buildings throughout Downtown. By my guess, when the Last, 21c, AC at the Jefferson and The Shell all open as Hotels, we will see, on average, an additional 1086 people on the streets of St. Louis (that's assuming 1.5 people per room nightly), on nights when the hotels are fully booked, say if we get an MLS team and the convention center has a large event along with a concert at Scottrade, you'll have an additional 2534 people on the streets of Downtown and patronizing the restaurants and bars on Washington (assumed 3.5 people per room nightly). I'm sure numbers will fluctuate but these three hotels are all positioned in a great area and are close by to our signature street.

With these hotels and all the lofts that are either proposed, built or under construction, Washington will surely gain more bars, restaurants, and even some retail stores because of the very large influx of Downtown visitors and residents. I may even add that the large vacant (or at least appears to be that way) retail space at the Ely Walker Lofts could become a City Target, but that is way down the road.

Overall, I am glad that developers are appearing to be more and more bullish on Downtown. I just hope that a lot of these projects are completed before the next econmic slowdown. 

You don't see the Millenium Hotel ever being redeveloped? Or just for now?

I'd be kind of sad if it were removed from the skyline, but I'd get over it really quickly if another tower went up in its place.

Hey, here is SoulardX talking misuse of tax subsidy again.....

The fact so many hotels are coming online recently strongly implies there's some sort of tax subsidy incentive to convert old buildings into hotels. Thus, the market is distorted. I just can't believe there is true demand for so many hotel rooms.  I say this as someone who has played/worked downtown daily for 20 years. Other than the April to Sept. months, there just aren't many tourists downtown. What will these hotels do the other 6 months?

With that said, how easy is it to convert hotel rooms to residential? I do not know but most hotel rooms are really small compared to condos/apartments. 

I still think this is largely a result of the $175 million convention center expansion.

KansasCitian wrote: I still think this is largely a result of the $175 million convention center expansion.

You think all the new hotels coming online are due to the convention center expansion?  I'm not sure I can connect those dots.  Most of these hotel conversions were underway well before the recent STL County agreement to help fund the expansion. I stand-by some sort of tax subsidy distorting the market, encouraging hotel conversion.