urbanSTL

^Yet county municipalities have no such agreement with the city of st. louis? How is that fair?

newstl2020 wrote: Is the measly 1% earnings tax really that big of a deterrent?

No, it's not. Cincy's is more than twice that.

The only redeeming thing about ESI's county location is that they built it on a Metrolink Stop.

Express Scripts may be only 340 meters from the North Hanley MetroLink station, but it's a 750 meter (almost half-mile) walk between the two points. I'm not sure it's even classifiable at a MetroLink accessible business.

^yep - horrible, terrible, no good use of the site - if you're looking for TOD.

newstl2020 wrote:I agree with all of the above except for transit as being a reason companies would not locate in downtown stl. Completely agree that we should expand metrolink aggressively as fast as possible, but overall I do not think accessibility issues in StL would deter companies from locating downtown. We might have one of the most car-commuter friendly CBDs in the country.


The benefits IMO so far outweight any possible negatives I honestly cannot comprehend why companies do not want to actively move downtown other than greed over the earnings tax. Infinitely more activities, connections, bar/happy hour spots, general liveliness, etc etc etc.

I don't know what we can do to begin to change these higher up perceptions. Is our only hope to wait for a new generation of leadership to recognize the benefits of urban location? I would love to see a coherent effort by the corporate leadership of the city (Peabody, Stifel, Laclede, Ameren, Barnes, Etc Etc) to put pressure so to speak on their peers to locate in the city.

I agree with those (most notably Doug) who state that we should focus on residents, but we will inevitably increase population with more jobs. Additionally, construction of highrises/skyscrapers contribute to a positive perception of the city, increase the appearance of liveliness and activity, and create positive momentum that begins to steamroll. If a few of the companies located in the county chose to move downtown jumpstarting this activity, I think we could reap massive gains as a region from the changes in perception.

Yeah, I know that downtown St. Louis is auto-centric, but that is not what I meant when I suggested making it a more accessible and viable corporate option to the suburbs. As I see it, some people simply do not like to be cooped up in a car on an interstate for hours on hours trying to get to work and home.

I-64, despite the modernization and widening in some places, is still cramped. For some people, hopping on commuter rail, light rail, rapid bus, master-planned community charter buses etc. makes their lives easier because the driving is left to someone else plus different modes of transit have right-of-way access that most auto commuters don't therefore allowing people to get to work or home faster.

Imagine a MetroLink or commuter rail line from downtown to the Chesterfield Valley, South County, far North County or Wentzville. I think it would make it a lot easier for employers to at least consider downtown more readily. Plus it would be easier on the environment, wallets, traffic, etc.

I want to finish by saying that I am glad the RGA is investing in the St. Louis region. Four hundred additional jobs and brand new massive headquarters is great, but I just wish it were downtown. I hope whatever they build in Chesterfield is impressive and not a typical suburban-style building.

newstl2020 wrote:I know this is not the right place to get a representative portion of the population as we are for the most part city-centric, but what would the benefits be to locating in a suburban office park over a building in downtown?

Would anyone rather work in an office park than downtown?

I cannot imagine why any employee would choose to locate themselves in that environment. It seems like the easiest way to stifle creativity and bore employees to death. I can't imagine it is conducive to innovative ideas.

Maybe this has something to do with our documented lack of business creation in the metro as a whole?

1) The City's earnings tax. This is a huge deal to some, though I believe it's so minimal as to barely be noticed. I've paid it since moving to the City 9 years ago.
2) A general fear of the City. Go read the comment boards of an article on STLToday of any crime that happened in the City limits.
3) Parking. Many people are extremely dependent on a car, and they accept traffic as a way of life.
4) Not everybody cares about restaurants, bars, venues, etc. They drive to work, eat in a lunchroom and drive home.

However, I believe younger workers are changing this mindset. I have 30-something (as in age, not # of) friends in the county/St. Charles that would love to hop on a train to come downtown/CWE for their jobs. I believe that's why we've seen more creative-type firms relocate to downtown, midtown, etc. We just need to lure the big players here.

rbeedee wrote:^5. Where CEOs/presidents/bigwigs live and want to work. I think many people way underestimate how much this consideration drives relocations.

Yes.

rbeedee wrote:^5. Where CEOs/presidents/bigwigs live and want to work. I think many people way underestimate how much this consideration drives relocations.

This is true. As we saw with Centene, Stifel, Peabody, Express Scripts etc. the CEO's hold the (re)location cards.

Centene's Michael Neidorff held the cards when it came to selecting the Ballpark Village once the dispute over "blight" in Clayton became a problem. Developers go where the companies go. When Centene wanted to go to the Ballpark Village the developer was on board. Unfortunately things didn't work out with Cordish.

Overall, this is why it is important for leaders in the city - particularly the mayor, downtown booster organizations and other CEOs located downtown - to convene in order to examine what are the true obstacles for firms unwilling to (re)locate HQs downtown. We can't pretend that we know for sure.

We can all speculate the issues, but we need to hear them from the "horses" mouths then address their concerns accordingly. There's has to be an open and honest dialogue.

In Detroit, the CBD momentum seems to be that CEOs there have a genuine desire to make Detroit great again despite massive social problems that exist in Detroit proper. CEOs there have made hard decisions, which isn't to say that current St. Louis City-based CEOs haven't done the same.

Downtown St. Louis represents the region whether people like it or not. St. Louis' great neighborhoods ought to be an extension of an all-around great and healthy downtown.

Although downtown St. Louis has come a long way over the years and continues to come up, there's no reason why citizens should have to apologize for a mediocre downtown. It's not only "St. Louis's" downtown. Downtown St. Louis is the region's downtown.

Fix it together.

rbeedee wrote:^5. Where CEOs/presidents/bigwigs live and want to work. I think many people way underestimate how much this consideration drives relocations.

Very true. Although, you would think amenities in downtown (or Clayton) - nice restaurants, private clubs, high-rise office views, proximity to other CEOs/attorneys/elected officials - would appeal to them as well. For parking, many buildings downtown have very limited, secured parking underneath for the brass. Also, the idea of adding your company's headquarters to the skyline of St. Louis with a most prominent phallic symbol should be a draw. Office parks aren't featured on the post cards at the gift shops.

Oh well.

Origin of Home-Based Work Trips to Chesterfield (from the Moving Transit Forward Appendix, 1 dot = 10 trips)

^ So what I read here is that there are only 30-40 people in the City who work in Chesterfield, and zero in Illinois?

I think that goes back to the argument that the region needs to work/grow together, and quit competing with each other for jobs.

That being said, downtown is the face of our region. Visitors/tourists to our metro area don't spend time in office parks or strip malls. However, their impression of downtown reflects on the county, St. Charles, etc. (I will say that within the state of Missouri, St. Charles can be recognized on its own, but someone from California or New York will put us all under the Arch.) I believe that our region would benefit overall by concentrating jobs in areas already built with needed infrastructure, transportation options and community amenities.

We can continue to invest jobs in our outlying, suburban neighborhoods, but there's no point in building a great deck in your backyard if your front porch is falling down.

From the map, the next MetroLink line should connect Ballwin and Chesterfield.

Hmm, there's a traffic jam at the same place everyday where I stare bleary eyed at Illinois plates and cars with CITY stickers heading westbound on I-64 (on my commute to the western edge of Creve Coeur), methinks that map is a little off...

^I'm not sure about that map either. I've seen one of CMT's long-range plans, but those maps aren't in there. Which plan are those being borrowed from? As I noted in my earlier post, I have a hard time believing that only 30-40 people from the City and 0 people in Illinois work in Chesterfield.

With regards to extending Metrolink that way, I have yet to see a plan following the path of 64/40. I don't think that would have been overlooked, but it would make sense to me to have our rail line following one of major corridors. The plans for commuter rail go down to Pacific, but I think only because they plan to use existing rail lines.