urbanSTL

I think you have to put in consideration one very obvious fact, GDP of the city, region and state as a whole is flat and won't be changing in the near future. So in my mind, you have to go with the fact that its route goes along with the street/corridor that is showing development at the moment vs the idea that a streetcar line will develop an area. That won't happen until you see real growth just as the case with metrolink stations between Delmar and UMSL. To me, Locust makes a lot of sense getting out of downtown

The second consideration in my opinion is that the streetcar line has to distinguish itself from metrolink/lightrail but offer the obvious connections. In this case, why go beyond CWE when metrolink readily,swiftly easily connects people to/from loop/forest park to other points in the region. To me, Downtown to CWE makes a lot of sense as you anchor the system with two employment centers, residential development happening all along the corridor and institutional/cultural anchoring the middle as well as an existing transit user base already plus the busiest bus line on Grand line that offers a convenient North/South/East/West local as well as regional transfer. Going beyond CWE means your building duplicate fixed transit for the same users and the city/region is truly not at the level. Population grows 10 to 20% and then start thinking additional capacity on corridors.

wabash wrote:I agree with running it along Locust in downtown and Midtown Alley. But then once it gets west of Leonard it should cut south in that angled street that has since been turned into a parking lot and run along Olive/Lindell out to the CWE and perhaps Skink-D.

I prefer this route too. Too bad it can't make it to the Arch grounds.

1) BRT route from arch, down washington aveune and lindell to FP Metro Station - WAY CHEAPER than street car, and huge improvement over existing mass transit options (except metrolink) routes. With the savings you could also build a BRT to south city over future southside metrolink route.
2) develop modern streetcar (as shown in Alex's image) as 1st step in southside metrolink.... downtown loop down to gravois or cherokee. N-S metrolink was never meant to be the same as existing - it was going to be running in the street...
3) 'expand' metrolink - separate red and blue lines - leave one as is - have the other go from FP Metrolink down lindel past SLU - then up to Lucas and connect up prior to Convention Center Station.
4)Add one or two stops south of Shresbury as apart of the whole MODOH highway project.
5) Develop a washington avenue transit route - on weekends, close it to all traffic except mass transit ala Denver's 16th Street (already been proposed)... heck have that go out to midtown (all be it combined with traffic after about Jefferson.

In any case - if you're going to waste limit capital (political and monetary) on a route that is already served by mass transit (metrolink is never more than 1/4 - 1/2 mile away) - why not make it usable, unique, and integrated? I would much prefer an expanded (as opposed to duplicated or replaced) services... say south city.

I've been reading comments here and there that parts of the proposed route seems screwy but, folks, this basically is the route of the University streetcar line and nothing about it was screwy. I do feel vindicated. When streetcars stopped running on Olive a half-century ago I told everyone, "This is a tragedy. All the neighborhoods along the line are going to fall apart." Most did. And I said, "One day they will rebuild the line." And they are. I won't even go into the tragedy of giving up rail on private right-of-way to Maryland Heights, Overland, Vinita Park, Hanley Hills, Brentwood, Kirkwood, Webster Groves, Sunset Hills, Clayton, Maplewood, Normandy,Ferguson, Berkeley and Florissant. Some of the rights-of-way are still there, many were paved over for roadways but with foresight the entire area today could be enjoying light rail at a light cost.

Weren't the results of this study supposed to be published January 31?

^ Why wouldn't they be made public? I thought I read somewhere that they would be releasing the plans soon. The Partnership for Downtown St. Louis does move in a lot of secrecy. Not a super transparent agency in my humble opinion.

^Oh ok I was confused about that. I thought they got some kind of govt. transit grant through EWGateway. I must be thinking about another transit study. This doesn't negate the fact that the Partnership for Downtown St. Louis is not a very transparent organization. They hardly ever update their site.

I have seen the results of the study. I like the plan, and it seems much more feasible than light rail (duh!). I was asked not to share details until the Partnership releases the study, which I thought had been done, but I haven't been paying attention closely.

MattnSTL wrote:I have seen the results of the study. I like the plan, and it seems much more feasible than light rail (duh!). I was asked not to share details until the Partnership releases the study, which I thought had been done, but I haven't been paying attention closely.

Could you tell us if we are looking at a network or a single line? Is the city thinking of scraping the N-S Line for a comprehensive streetcar network that connects into the Metro. We need more answers! lol

Yeah, we uh...Lost the link?

streetcar: definitely yes. however, i still hope the N-S metrolink gets built (and sooner rather than later). st. louis is about twice as long N-S as it is E-W and the travel time on a streetcar from the south tip to the north tip would be prohibitive. we need one well-placed N-S line and then we can fill-in the between with streetcars.

urban_dilettante wrote:streetcar: definitely yes. however, i still hope the N-S metrolink gets built (and sooner rather than later). st. louis is about twice as long N-S as it is E-W and the travel time on a streetcar from the south tip to the north tip would be prohibitive. we need one well-placed N-S line and then we can fill-in the between with streetcars.

amen. use 170 to the west, 55/70 to the east to guide a ring style metrolink, making it possible to get anywhere on the ring easily and then fill in with streetcar/brt.

St. Louis Streetcar: http://www.downtownstl.org/streetcar.aspx

The Downtown Next 2020 Vision established ambitious goals for Downtown St. Louis to accomplish from 2010 through 2020. One of the goals in the Downtown Next plan is “Making Downtown Accessible and Easy to Get Around.” The Partnership for Downtown St. Louis and other stakeholders saw how a downtown streetcar improves accessibility. The Partnership for Downtown St. Louis led discussions and in the summer of 2012 raised private funds to hire a consultant to conduct the St. Louis Streetcar Feasibility Study. An RFQ was issued and a consultant was hired to perform the feasibility study. The purpose of the study was to determine the feasibility of implementing a modern streetcar linking downtown, the near Northside, Midtown, and the Central West End. If you have any questions, please contact Matt Schindler at mschindler@downtownstl.org