urbanSTL

Yes Culinaria is in fact struggling.. Im not sure how much of a struggle they are in but from the recent opening of Fields Foods they taken a hit from it and the loss of At&t and now with Laclede Gas moving further down.. I know all the managers that work there so i'm always asking how they are doing..Some of the managers will be heading to Chicago to look at different concept of stores there in ways of bringing more customers in Culinaria...I thought they were doing well until they told me of the recent struggles.. I do believe once OPO Tower Chemical Arcade and the planned street car Downtown will be doing great i just think with this really long cold somewhat snowing winter people just aren't much motivated in doing anything let alone walk a few blocks out in it....

The Business Journal had a rather positive article last week in the print section. If you aren't already a subscriber I suggest doing so.

Lots of subjective posts recently about the state of downtown. Here is a list of openings and closings to put this in perspective



Restaurants grow with retail downtown

...“Downtown, a still emerging market, can be an even bigger challenge with a growing but relatively small residential population, multiple markets to reach (residents, visitors and workers) and fairly dramatic daily fluctuation in customers,” he said.

But retail is people driven, Farrell said, adding that as the downtown population grows — with residents, visitors and workers — retail will grow as well.

“Downtown is being regenerated by young people, immigrants, corporate transferees and others who believe in the urban culture,” said Steve Symsack, senior vice president of Gershman Commercial Real Estate.

He said downtown has a strong restaurant market and restaurants are primarily looking at three areas to locate — Washington Avenue, Olive Street and Ballpark Village. Gershman generally tracks more than 18 million square feet of retail space in the city of St. Louis. Statistically, occupancy has been rising gradually over the last three years and currently, the occupancy rate stands at just under 94 percent....


2013 Comings and goings
2013 openings:
Alpha Brewing Co.
Bella’s Frozen Yogurt Cafe
Cafe di Organo
Flying Cow Frozen Yogurt
Flying Saucer Draught Emporium
Hiro Asian Kitchen
J. Gumbo’s
King Louie’s Empire Deli & Pizza
Mississippi Mud Coffee Roasters
Pharoah’s Donuts
Rib Shack
Smoothie King
Sushi Ai
The Alumni Club
The Docket Cafe and Bistro
The Precinct
India Palace
Jay B’s Sandwiches on Olive Street

2013 closings:
15 restaurant (replaced with The Precinct new concept — same owners)
Blue Bird Boutique
Burger Bar at Lumiere Place
English Living
Everest Café (replaced by India Palace)
Geechi’s
J Spain’s Waffles and Wings
Joe’s Chili Bowl (replaced by Death in the Afternoon)
London Tea Room
Macy’s
Mosaic
People’s National Bank
Point of View

http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/prin ... l?page=all

rawest1 wrote:As far as the streetcar...... can anyone explain to me exactly how it will help downtown? The only streetcar proposals I've seen run along the central corridor, which is already well-served by the MetroLink.

Do you really think the central corridor is well-served by Metrolink? It's served by Metrolink, which is great, but having two stations (albeit very busy, successful stations) between Union Station and Debaliviere is pretty limited coverage considering the size and density of the neighborhoods lying in between. The streetcar would help downtown by creating continuous, consistent connectivity throughout the densest corridor in the city. All of Downtown, Downtown West, Wells Fargo, SLU, Midtown Alley, Grand Center, Vandeventer, and the majority of the CWE will be easily accessible on foot. For anyone living in those neighborhoods downtown will be that much more convenient and driving/parking will be that much more unnecessary.

Admittedly, a Boyle/Sarah Metrolink station would also help address some of the same problems. But having the streetcar line 5 blocks north of the Metrolink tracks will do much more to connect all of the areas north of Lindell/Olive. At the end of the day a Lindell/Olive streetcar would not be a Loop Trolley (which is much more redundant with Metrolink). This proposal opens up a lot of new neighborhoods to improved transit.

Downtown especially Washington Ave needs a unique restaurant/bar concept that creates a buzz. Something like the Planters House, iTap, Mission Taco, or a Gerard Craft owned restaurant to drum up the interest of other restaurant/bar owners investing in downtown. Some of the other restaurant/bars have been around for more than 2 years and have lost that buzz. That doesn’t mean they are bad establishments, they have just been around long enough that they don’t draw the buzz like you would see with places that have opened in the past year.

However the question is, what retail spaces are left that would be suitable for a few new places? Obviously the old Mosaic spot and the Bogen spaces are a good options but retail spaces along Washington are slim pickings.

I noticed the other day a new bar going in where the old Shiver used to be plus the space next to it on Washington Ave. Bobby's Place (I assume same affiliation as the one in Valley Park area) . Looks nice so far with a lot of hockey memorabilia up. Not sure when it is supposed to open but they seem to be making a lot of progress.

Yeah it's a sports bar called Bobby's place. Still uncertain what the one next to it will be.

CardsSTL wrote:I noticed the other day a new bar going in where the old Shiver used to be plus the space next to it on Washington Ave. Bobby's Place (I assume same affiliation as the one in Valley Park area) . Looks nice so far with a lot of hockey memorabilia up. Not sure when it is supposed to open but they seem to be making a lot of progress.

That's great news. I saw that there a few weeks back but just assumed it used to be there as opposed to was coming in.

Bobby references Bobby Plager, Blues long-time everything (player, coach, front office, overall ambassador, etc.). I'm not clear on whether he's affiliated with it or if the owners are just fans of his.

He owns the location in Valley Park. Hangs out there.

Recent profile on the new Partnership CEO. Sounds like their main focus is on job growth through the T Rex.

How will Doug Woodruff keep downtown growing?

http://m.bizjournals.com/stlouis/blog/2 ... tml?r=full

moorlander wrote: 2013 Comings and goings
2013 openings:
Alpha Brewing Co.
Bella’s Frozen Yogurt Cafe
Cafe di Organo
Flying Cow Frozen Yogurt
Flying Saucer Draught Emporium
Hiro Asian Kitchen
J. Gumbo’s
King Louie’s Empire Deli & Pizza
Mississippi Mud Coffee Roasters
Pharoah’s Donuts
Rib Shack
Smoothie King
Sushi Ai
The Alumni Club
The Docket Cafe and Bistro
The Precinct
India Palace
Jay B’s Sandwiches on Olive Street

2013 closings:
15 restaurant (replaced with The Precinct new concept — same owners)
Blue Bird Boutique
Burger Bar at Lumiere Place
English Living
Everest Café (replaced by India Palace)
Geechi’s
J Spain’s Waffles and Wings
Joe’s Chili Bowl (replaced by Death in the Afternoon)
London Tea Room
Macy’s
Mosaic
People’s National Bank
Point of View

http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/prin ... l?page=all

Thanks for this list and the link to the related St. Louis Business Journal article. We all have our opinions about downtown and where it's heading, but this puts everything in proper perspective in my opinion.

My #1 concern remains the same- it's what I've repeated in this thread and in the discussion about the loss of Macy's. Where are downtown's leaders? And what are they doing/planning to do to retain and attract businesses downtown?

Look at this list, and you see comings and goings that are not atypical in even the most successful downtowns. But I think St. Louis can do much better in terms of business recruitment and central planning.

The economy is finally showing signs of life and the demand for downtown housing is still there, as evidenced by long-dormant projects that will spring to life in the coming year(s) like the OPO Tower and the Arcade and Chemical buildings. Obviously some progress on the jobs front would go a long way toward attracting the type and density of retailers that we seek for downtown, but there's no reason to believe that we can't do more with what is in place already in my opinion.

As for planning, the last time the city put forth a significant effort was with the redo of Washington Avenue. That didn't provide an instant payoff, but I think we can all agree that the stretch between 18th Street and the core of downtown is a much more inviting and vibrant place because of the significant public investment that the city made over a decade ago. I'd like to see the same level of attention paid to Olive Street, which (1) is downtown's original east-west corridor, (2) is likely to lead to a spillover effect on Sixth, Seventh, and other north-south streets, and (3) has the potential to come alive with the proposed east-west streetcar.

The area around the OPO is inviting, and it will get even better once the Arcade and Chemical buildings are complete. But the blocks surrounding the mostly-empty Railway Exchange look bleak, and there's room from improvement along Olive west to Tucker Boulevard as well. So I'd love to see Olive Street get some attention, the sooner the better in my opinion.

St.Louis is wait and see too much . Having that mindset will get you overlooked all the time. I wonder if the city planners plan to be aggressive? There's no excuse on why Macy's couldn't of been replace by another department store. Portland got its downtown Target cause their mayor was courting them hard and aggressive...

BrickCity4470 wrote:St.Louis is wait and see too much . Having that mindset will get you overlooked all the time. I wonder if the city planners plan to be aggressive? There's no excuse on why Macy's couldn't of been replace by another department store. Portland got its downtown Target cause their mayor was courting them hard and aggressive...

I guess we shouldn't be too surprised when St. Louis has always had a reactive rather than a proactive outlook. The only difference is, there was once a time when the city's leaders worked a bit harder to protect our assets.

People will say downtown doesn't have the demographics to support CityTarget just as it didn't have what it took to support Macy's Downtown long-term. But retailers (in general, not necessarily Target) could be persuaded. I look at what Houston is doing with much interest, because the mayor took swift action when the downtown Macy's and Books-A-Million stores closed there, and a mayor-appointed task force developed a workable action plan that included public investment. Only time will tell if that effort proves to be successful, but again, there's an effort there. Here? Crickets...

The thing about "regionalism" is that most regions have a defined center. For us, that's downtown St. Louis City. Even though we like to promote regionalism to get our metro area working together, I don't think giving downtown preferential treatment over everywhere else defeats that.

314- as you and I have discussed before, I don't believe downtown will get the large national retailers in the near future. But the area around FP Pkwy and Vadeventer will. Think about it, this area could easily serve the CWE/CORTEX, FPSE, SLU, Midtown, Soulard, Lafayette Squrae, South Grand, Benton Park, and downtown quite easily via major roads and interstates. Plus, it will have a large parking lot.

This is not what most of you want to hear. St. Louis is a car-centric town. We like our convenient access from major roads/interstates and convenient parking spaces for when we shop (see: Taste of St. Louis Relo). And therefore, the retailers require this as well.

Downtown will get more retail. Again, I do not understand why CVS and/or Walgreens aren't downtown. Forget the office population. This area has 13,500 plus permanent residents. If you can find a city anywhere in the US with a population north of 13,500 without a WG or CVS (or a major chain pharmacy like Rite Aid) I'll give that person $100.00. Other than a pharmacy, for now, Downtown will continue to see more restaurants and entertainment. And some service retail, maybe a Jos A Bank or Suit Supply.

This is just my opinion based on my experiance as a retail CRE broker and lifelong resident of STL Metro (including downtown for 6 yrs).

Kbshapiro: Thanks for the insight. It's hard to hear, but it sounds like the voice of reason and reality. I just hope the Boyle/Sarah Metrolink and (hopefully) Olive/Lindell streetcars are built to counterbalance the convenient road/highway/parking lot access that so many St. Louisans and retailers prefer.

As for downtown, and I know I've said this before, I doubt and dismiss the 13,500 figure. Downtown is probably knocking on 10,000 (if DT and DTW have added 500 residents a year since the last census). The Downtown Partnership includes Carr Square and Columbus Square in its figures, both of which are not Downtown. Furthermore, most of the residents in those two neighborhoods are low income, living in subsidized housing. This means that they won't contribute very much to the household income and disposable income figures that retailers like to see. Obviously everyone needs a pharmacy, whatever their income. I also think a Dollar Tree/Dollar General would be a good addition to DT. But Carr & Columbus should not be included in the population stats. And I don't think the populations they have significantly encourage discretionary, national retailers.

^I agree outside of a very small minority of exclusive municipalities, all cities have low income residents. They are and should be counted. Beyond that most are important contributors to the local economy and are spenders. Their contribution is just different than that of the white collar middle/upper middle class that fills the lofts. DT needs both.

Weren't they supposed to put a pharmacy in the Park Pacific?

One of the dollar stores was going to go near Culinaria but that specific company's real estate committee killed the deal due to Operations concerns regarding parking and loading. So, no dollar stores (that I know of) are looking downtown at the moment.

The Downtown St Louis Partnership states that there are 13,500 people downtown which is where I got the number from. Anyone know if thats accurate or wrong?

The 2010 Census had the following populations:

Downtown: 3,701
Downtown West: 3,940
Downtown Total: 7,641

Carr Square: 2,774
Columbus Square: 1,869
Carr & Columbus Total: 4,643

Total for all Four: 12,284

In early 2012 the Partnership for Downtown started offering the 13,500 estimate, which includes all four neighborhoods. Assuming all of that growth (1,216) occurred in DT and DTW, and has continued at the same rate, that would put things at about 10,000. 7,641 (2010 Census) + 1,216 (2010-2012 Growth) + 1,216 (2012-2014 Growth) = 10,073.

Perhaps the growth has been a bit faster than the 2010-2012 timeframe, especially considering the addition of SLU Law in 2013. But the 10,073 figure would mean that downtown's population has grown by 32% in the last four years, which I think is an adequately rosy projection.

The Downtown Partnership includes Carr Square and Columbus Square as a way of puffing up the statistics. Are those two neighborhoods Downtown? No. But the projections are probably pretty accurate in the context of all four neighborhoods, and may actually be a little low at this point, because they came out in spring of 2012.