urbanSTL

gerwitz wrote:

DeBaliviere wrote:the guy who stopped abruptly in front of me the second the light turned yellow, who I had to run the light to avoid hitting.

If someone can influence your action merely by stopping abruptly, you need to either leave more following distance, buy better tires, get a lighter car with ABS, or go take some SCCA classes. I suggest the latter three.

I drive like a bat out of hell, I'm not going to lie to you.

MattnSTL wrote:I believe you get the right turn on red ticket if you do not come to a full and complete stop.

That's definitely the case with the Arnold cameras.

I think the only camera in Arnold that monitors right turns would be at Rockport Elementary on Jeffco at Richardson, and that is on flash most of the day. All of the other intersections except for maybe the right turn off the Vogel exit have the typical suburban yield turn. The city will probably have many more incidents of right turn tickets.

brickandmortar wrote:Be careful at the City red light camera signals. I hear they have been issuing tickets(warnings for now) for people making a right turn on red. I always thought this was OK in the City except downtown east of Tucker. PE can you clarify?

I hate to quote myself, but a friend of mine recently received a $100 ticket for making a right turn on red at Wilson. There are no signs saying it's wrong to do that and she said she came to a complete stop. Now she has to take time off work to appeal the ticket. Looks like the City is trying to wring every buck they can out of these cameras.

she said she came to a complete stop

And she probably did, but where? If she crossed the stop line and entered the crosswalk before she stopped -- pretty common for careless right turners -- that would be running the light. (If she stopped behind the line and then made the turn, that would not be running the light.)

And she probably did, but where? If she crossed the stop line and entered the crosswalk before she stopped -- pretty common for careless right turners -- that would be running the light. (If she stopped behind the line and then made the turn, that would not be running the light.)

One of the most disrespectful to pedestrian mistakes St. Louis drivers make all the time. In some cities that would easily get a dent on your car.



Anyway. Enough warnings. They should start dolling out the tickets. Running a red light is a serious offense not some minor infraction.

Too few St. Louis drivers seem to understand this.

ddd5 wrote:

And she probably did, but where? If she crossed the stop line and entered the crosswalk before she stopped -- pretty common for careless right turners -- that would be running the light. (If she stopped behind the line and then made the turn, that would not be running the light.)

One of the most disrespectful to pedestrian mistakes St. Louis drivers make all the time. In some cities that would easily get a dent on your car.

Best thing I ever saw was in Chicago a cop was working one of the intersections along Michigan Ave. A driver in a Mercedes convertable was blocking the crosswalk big time even though the cop had told them to stop further back. Cop takes her nightstick out and smashes one of the headlights. Driver started to protest and she points the nightstick at him with a "Don't eff with me." look.

Though I don't know how relevant, one thing I have noticed in the Lou is how fast the light turns green in one direction after the light turned red in the other direction. It is instant, they change in unison. Where I live, there is about a 2-3 second delay between a red light and a green in the other direction.

Doesn't matter. The yellow lights are one of the longest I have ever seen.

I meant it isn't really an excuse for running a red light. People should be prepared to stop if they see a yellow light in the distance. Instead, most drivers speed up. I have even seen drivers who are stopped accelerate towards a yellow light that has been yellow for a long time resulting in a red light run. Having a long yellow light gives you ample time to stop.



On the other hand, I agree that a delay between the turn to red and turn to green on the intersecting road might make increase safety. Though on high traffic streets that just slows everything down. I think strict traffic enforcement is really the way to go, but STL PD doesn't seem to think so.



In any case, increasing the yellow light time will only increase red light runs. So whoever is considering that should reconsider.

I know I also have a very strong opinion about this too. I think it help the discussion alot if you cited which roads and intersections you routinely drive, and/or which ones your opinions are based on



I'm on Grand/Gravois/8th/Kingshighway/Chippewa ..



I'm all for getting our lights timed & synced first, getting the lanes properly marked, removing obsolete restriction signage, bogus 1-way streets, insane 6-way intersections, endless grids of 4-way stops .. and then cameras & zero tolerance

shinpickle wrote:I'm all for getting our lights timed & synced first, getting the lanes properly marked, removing obsolete restriction signage, bogus 1-way streets, insane 6-way intersections, endless grids of 4-way stops .. and then cameras & zero tolerance

Quotes like this make me think that at City Hall there is a room titled Street Dept. and you would walk in and there's a guy buried under maps of the city and of course no real plan as to how to go about fixing something simple like old signage.

bogus 1-way streets

Sorry, but what bogus 1-way streets are you talking about. I think there are not enough 1-way streets in St. Louis. We have a great grid here and

they should actually convert (or reconvert not sure) most of the streets, blvd, avenues to one-way. This would reduce the need for so many left turn signals, which really slows down traffic and is annoying for pedestrians, and increase vehicular traffic on alot of the side streets--which in turn would increase visibility--might even spur development and commerce.

insane 6-way intersections

Where is there one of these?

endless grids of 4-way stops

Again, make the streets 1 way!!

then cameras & zero tolerance

Zero tolerance would probably reduce crime too.

We actually need less one way streets, but that's another topic for another thread.



There are many intersections in this city with more than four roads. You can often see 5,6,7, or more streets coming together in one intersection or within just a stones throw from one another. These intersection often can really mess up traffic because of the many signals needed to control 6 different movements.

so what roads are you driving on? sounds like you don't have my problems, and i'm not very interested in your solutions

Ok, now I know what you mean. But what do you do about these intersections?





Started a thread about 1-ways.

Juice13610 wrote: one thing I have noticed in the Lou is how fast the light turns green in one direction after the light turned red in the other direction. It is instant, they change in unison.

Actually, the City has been working on this. I've been noticing more intersections that have the 2 or 3 second delay you mentioned. It really is a great idea, and improves safety enormously.

ddd5 wrote:I meant it isn't really an excuse for running a red light. People should be prepared to stop if they see a yellow light in the distance. Instead, most drivers speed up. I have even seen drivers who are stopped accelerate towards a yellow light that has been yellow for a long time resulting in a red light run. Having a long yellow light gives you ample time to stop.



On the other hand, I agree that a delay between the turn to red and turn to green on the intersecting road might make increase safety. Though on high traffic streets that just slows everything down. I think strict traffic enforcement is really the way to go, but STL PD doesn't seem to think so.



In any case, increasing the yellow light time will only increase red light runs. So whoever is considering that should reconsider.

When we lived in the CWE I would see someone run the red light at Delmar and Taylor almost routinely. When the light turned green at that intersection I would sit for at least another 5 seconds. My girlfriend takes surface streets to her downtown job everyday and she too sees the same red lights run over and over.



Also, I've seen more cops doing this (running red lights, not coming to a complete stop, etc) in this city than I have seen anywhere in the past. Has anyone else noticed that? Just a couple weeks ago I watched a cop run several red lights all the way down Grand in broad daylight, no sirens or lights, with people all over the roads.



Looks like Dallas began fining their officers for getting caught on camera doing this... http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent ... 51d8c.html



Don't get me wrong, the last thing I want is fewer cops on the street. Just making an observation.

publiceye wrote:

she said she came to a complete stop

And she probably did, but where? If she crossed the stop line and entered the crosswalk before she stopped -- pretty common for careless right turners -- that would be running the light. (If she stopped behind the line and then made the turn, that would not be running the light.)

I'll ask her if she stopped in front of the line...one more thing though. It'd be nice if MoDOT and the City could time the Wilson and I-44 signals a whole lot better.

It'd be nice if MoDOT and the City could time the Wilson and I-44 signals a whole lot better.

They are too busy laying assphalt and tearing down houses for new exit ramps to tinker with the traffic controls.

ddd5 wrote:

It'd be nice if MoDOT and the City could time the Wilson and I-44 signals a whole lot better.

They are too busy laying assphalt and tearing down houses for new exit ramps to tinker with the traffic controls.

tell me about it. my commute down Gravois gets worse every week. MoDOT tells me they're doing a study to improve timing, but that's been months ago.

Just FYI. More cameras appear to be going up. In know more intersections are supposed to have them, but the only one I have seen so far is on Hampton at Chippewa now. 3 of the 4 corners have cameras. I haven't been by in a couple of days to check if the 4th direction is receiving a camera.

They've added new cameras to the existing ones, specifically on westbound Wilson and southbound Hampton. New intersections with cameras are Skinker at Delmar and Skinker at Clayton.