urbanSTL

Is the ticket issued to the registered owner of the car? In Minneapolis it is/was. The Minnesota Civil Liberties Union took the city to court on this issue and, the last I heard, ticketing from cameras in Minneapolis has been suspended. The city is appealing the ruling.

One of the bigger issues that I think needs to be addressed it the time between a light going from red to green .. I believe I read St. Louis has one of the fastest .. IE: there is no standard. It's my opinion that if a slow transition is approved so the city fathers don't DECIDE to raise a little revenue.. I'd be in favor as it's clearly in everyones best interest.

Mark Wegmann wrote:One of the bigger issues that I think needs to be addressed it the time between a light going from red to green .. I believe I read St. Louis has one of the fastest .. IE: there is no standard. It's my opinion that if a slow transition is approved so the city fathers don't DECIDE to raise a little revenue.. I'd be in favor as it's clearly in everyones best interest.

That's what aggravates me. I almost had an accident and ran a red a few months ago when a light transitioned straight from green to red at the intersection of Tucker Boulevard and Park Avenue.



Saturday night, my wife and I took the long way home after eating dinner at Moxy Bistro in the CWE, and went through downtown. We hadn't been downtown in a couple of weeks, so we thought we'd check on the progress there. As I turned onto Broadway from Chestnut, the light at Broadway and Market went straight from green to red- no yellow! A gentleman several car lengths in front of me brought his Ford F-350 dually to a grinding halt just in time, and it wasn't like he was speeding or driving carelessly. Many other lights, especially downtown, are timed poorly. Motorists are forced to sit at an intersection or stop when there's no oncoming traffic or pedestrians for blocks.



I think the city really needs to review its overall traffic management system before using these cameras to generate revenue, but I won't get my hopes up. That's why I can't help but feel that revenue generation, not safety, is the priority here.

One of the worst things that the city does is not utilize the flashing red/yellow lights after a certain time of day or night. Having to sit at a stop light at 3 in the morning is just ridiculous.

ThreeOneFour wrote:Many other lights, especially downtown, are timed poorly. Motorists are forced to sit at an intersection or stop when there's no oncoming traffic or pedestrians for blocks.

I think this will be a problem with the new camera at Hampton and Wilson. The light at Wilson is often green, while the light immediately to the north is red - northbound cars back up and sometimes fill the Wilson intersection.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but won't revenue from the cameras go to the police dept, not the streets dept?

IMO these red light cameras are nothing more than revenue generators for the police depts. Its not for safety, its "extra" revenue generated to pay these unpaid pigs and get them new patrol cars to roll in every 3-4 years.



They are not in it for safety, in fact I think they might have had the synchronized the lights to make the yellow shorter.



I remember a friend in NoVa told me he heard on the local news over there an investigative story about one Virginia town the police intentially requested the yellow light to be synchronized. The yellow light went from 9 seconds before it turned red to 3 seconds. This didn't even anyone a chance who was approaching the light to stop or slow down in time. This helped the dept produce a lot of revenue for the police. At the same time many citizens got angry because it they didn't care about safety and more about generated revenue. The police chief admitted that he wanted more money than concerned about the public's safety and he resigned. Nonetheless, I hate these things and I sure hope they aren't synchronizing lights to do that here.:maddown:

9 seconds? That's an incredibly long yellow. 4-5 seconds is the usual around here according to MoDOT.

DeBaliviere wrote:I think this will be a problem with the new camera at Hampton and Wilson. The light at Wilson is often green, while the light immediately to the north is red - northbound cars back up and sometimes fill the Wilson intersection.

That was the first thing I thought of when the announcement was made that this would be one of the first intersections with red light cameras. The backups there are common during morning, lunch, and evening rush hours. It'll be interesting to see how many people get tickets because of the backups, and how many of these tickets are thrown out (if any are thrown out at all, of course).

it's illegal to proceed into an intersection (even with a green light) without a clear path through it. So, those folks sitting in an intersection when the light changes because cars are backed up are in fact breaking the law.

bab wrote:it's illegal to proceed into an intersection (even with a green light) without a clear path through it. So, those folks sitting in an intersection when the light changes because cars are backed up are in fact breaking the law.

Very true. And other drivers irritate me when they do it. However, there are some intersections where it's easy to misjudge, and I know there have been a couple of times where I have driven forward, thinking I had a clear path, only to get stuck within an intersection. I think we've all been there at one time or another. However, I think this intersection is pretty straightforward, so hopefully the presence of red light cameras will discourage those people that routinely block the intersection, and encourage motorists to be more careful in this busy area. Like I've said before, these cameras really have pros AND cons.

The way I've heard these things explained, the tickets go to people whose cars' front wheels are behind the stop line when the light turns red and who keep going through the intersection. Getting stuck in the intersection -- while sort of an obnoxious thing -- won't mean a ticket.

Right. The cameras that activate the camera to take the pic are focused on the very beginning of the intersection. These cameras are not to be confused with the completely separate cameras that control many signals throughout the city. Look at the Hampton Chippewa intersection if you are confused at how it works.

it's illegal to proceed into an intersection (even with a green light) without a clear path through it. So, those folks sitting in an intersection when the light changes because cars are backed up are in fact breaking the law.

I wondered about this when I moved to StL. It's the only place I've been where drivers often politely wait at a green light until there is "a clear path" to drive through an intersection - everywhere else you line up in the intersection and then turn on the yellow/red.

Grover wrote:


I wondered about this when I moved to StL. It's the only place I've been where drivers often politely wait at a green light until there is "a clear path" to drive through an intersection - everywhere else you line up in the intersection and then turn on the yellow/red.

I'd like to know where I can see that!

It doesn't happen downtown. I've seen complete gridlock because people think if they pull out into the intersection and get those 2 car lengths further along they'll get where ever faster. Never mind that no one in front of them is moving and now they're blocking the cross street that often isn't (or wasn't) backed up.

In Germany they actually have a short yellow light that comes on when the red light is ready to turn green. Just like at a dragstrip. Of course, drivers in Germany also come to a stop if a pedestrian simply walks up to the curb, as if they are about to cross the street.

When I lived in Washington, the speed cameras (which were also designed to make money, not protect people) used to kill me. Thats why I got.......



http://www.backstreetinline.com/phantomplate/



It is a reflective spray that you put on your license plate. When the camera flash goes off, it reflects and creates an unusable picture. Result......they aint got nobody to send their ticket to. Other people had little sheets of plexiglass over their plates which supposedly functioned in the same way, but I think they were eventually outlawed (like radar detectors) because they took money out of "the man's" pocket. The spray is cool because they can't get you for it.

DeBaliviere wrote:Well, I blew through the light at Hampton and Wilson this morning, right as it was about to turn red. Hopefully, I made it through in time so that I won't get a ticket!

I received my "warning" in the mail the other day. I should scan it and post it here - it contains three pictures: a close-up of my plate and two pictures of me running the light. Also pictured is the guy who stopped abruptly in front of me the second the light turned yellow, who I had to run the light to avoid hitting.



It's actually pretty cool, the shot of my license plate is clear as day - you can even read the letters on my SLU license plate frame.

Also pictured is the guy who stopped abruptly in front of me the second the light turned yellow, who I had to run the light to avoid hitting.

That's the second cousin to the guy who stops at the yield signs on the highway on-ramps. And it's why it always pays to drive safely.

Be careful at the City red light camera signals. I hear they have been issuing tickets(warnings for now) for people making a right turn on red. I always thought this was OK in the City except downtown east of Tucker. PE can you clarify?

I believe you get the right turn on red ticket if you do not come to a full and complete stop.