Please take not of what Urban Elitist has posted. We have had too many threads drift off into a height limit discussion in the past year, some several times. We don't need to keep beating a dead horse, one that's already been beat it's entire life.
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cumulonimbus wrote:Actually, I think that the building would be good in Midtown, CWE, or in Clayton. Not all of our tallest buildings have to be downtown, and I think that building tall buildings in the central corridor will do much better for the city than just having the tallest buildings in the CBD.
BTW, about how tall is this building in feet?
This would be really bad. Have you ever seen pictures of the Williams tower in Houston? It is the 1st or 2nd tallest building in the city and its misplaced in Uptown. We need this building downtown. Just like the song.
St. Louis Texan wrote:cumulonimbus wrote:Actually, I think that the building would be good in Midtown, CWE, or in Clayton. Not all of our tallest buildings have to be downtown, and I think that building tall buildings in the central corridor will do much better for the city than just having the tallest buildings in the CBD.
BTW, about how tall is this building in feet?
This would be really bad. Have you ever seen pictures of the Williams tower in Houston? It is the 1st or 2nd tallest building in the city and its misplaced in Uptown. We need this building downtown. Just like the song.
I said the exact same thing about the exact same tower a couple weeks ago. The Williams Tower looks horrible and its surrounded by decent 20 story buildings. To look good you need to have it look like it belongs and a tower thats that much taller than its neighbors just looks out of place.
While it's nice to talk about such a project; I have to wait until it makes it past a sketch on a diner napkin before worrying about where it goes.
Amen - couldn't have expressed it better myself. It is exciting to think about the possibilities, but let's allow the real projects to step forward instead of talking about some developers fantasy.
I disagree - it starts with a napkin drawing. If there is no buzz about it - it wont progress to the next phase. I am not saying get all your hopes up, but we are creating a little bit of hope, if not a whisper... and as long as a whisper exists the possibility exists for greatness. Once that whisper of hope dies - the air has been sucked out of the lungs of this project just as it was taking its first breath. The need for us and everyone else to give real opinions and thoughts is the next step needed in the process.
Look at the Bottle District... they released pictures of it and then all of a sudden after massive public approval - they brought in a huge named architect and said "as tall as the arch" A bunch of joe blows **(us or at least me)** saying a little something here and a little something there can have more effect than one might imagine.
Look at the Bottle District... they released pictures of it and then all of a sudden after massive public approval - they brought in a huge named architect and said "as tall as the arch" A bunch of joe blows **(us or at least me)** saying a little something here and a little something there can have more effect than one might imagine.
What is the purpose of this forum if we don't discuss, give opinions and ideas? It would seem pointless if we hold back on our inuput (???...!!!) for the meer fact that a project has only been mentioned as a possibility.
Sitting around and not discussing those things we only hear about and that might be would signal there's no interest in them here...and who knows, developers may be reading what's discussed here to get a feel of what the buzz is in an urbanist forum as a guage for their ideas.
Sitting around and not discussing those things we only hear about and that might be would signal there's no interest in them here...and who knows, developers may be reading what's discussed here to get a feel of what the buzz is in an urbanist forum as a guage for their ideas.
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They are just saying that we shouldnt get ahead of ourselves or put too much faith in this project being built. They werent suppressing our opinions
Yes. It's not like the usual giving our opinion on something that is already built, being built, or even planned-to-be-built. We don't even have a rendering, location, or a serious proposal of any kind. It's just a dream at this point.
The way the discussion is going, we might as well rename this topic "The Concept of an Indefinite Building in an Indefinite location (somewhere in the St. Louis Metropolitan Area)"
The way the discussion is going, we might as well rename this topic "The Concept of an Indefinite Building in an Indefinite location (somewhere in the St. Louis Metropolitan Area)"
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Sure, the Empire State Building certainly stands out in Midtown, making a dramatic statement. But it doesn't stand out for a street-level pedestrian's view, and that's what makes it work. In Manhattan, you have block after block of tall street walls built upto the sidewalk. Also, as in the case of the ESB, many skyscrapers there sit on a zero-lot-line base, but then have ziggurat setbacks for upper floors, hiding the upper mass from street-level views and minimizing shadows.
Meanwhile, in St. Louis, a sea of surface parking and green space makes an unusually tall building stick out more, especially if not near other tall buildings. Case in point is the University Club Tower in Richmond Heights. If other moderately tall buildings could be built near it, or at least build out the adjoining parking with similar massing to at least the height of buildings in The Boulevard, then this oddball tower wouldn't look so out of place.
Meanwhile, in St. Louis, a sea of surface parking and green space makes an unusually tall building stick out more, especially if not near other tall buildings. Case in point is the University Club Tower in Richmond Heights. If other moderately tall buildings could be built near it, or at least build out the adjoining parking with similar massing to at least the height of buildings in The Boulevard, then this oddball tower wouldn't look so out of place.
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Heck i wish they would just put it between Metropolitan Square and The SBC tower, then it wouldnt look too bad and out of place
Southslider: "If other moderately tall buildings could be built near it, or at least build out the adjoining parking with similar massing to at least the height of buildings in The Boulevard, then this oddball tower wouldn't look so out of place."
Will the proposed placement of the Valencia help (I'm not totally sure where it is slated to be built)?
Will the proposed placement of the Valencia help (I'm not totally sure where it is slated to be built)?
^ I don't know how much the Valencia will help the situation. I mean, the U. Club tower will still have its large parking lots between any development fronting brentwood and the tower itself. I have a feeling the Valencia will look like just another tower to line Brentwood near 40, all standing off of Brentwood and all clearly seperate visualy.
As for any new tall tower downtown, while step-backs will clearly address any concern over how out of proportion the tower would look at the street level, there are far fewer places in downtown where such a tower will not:
1. have the negative effects assoicated with a tall tower I mentioned in an earlier post and
2. Be located in an already dense area of downtown.
As for any new tall tower downtown, while step-backs will clearly address any concern over how out of proportion the tower would look at the street level, there are far fewer places in downtown where such a tower will not:
1. have the negative effects assoicated with a tall tower I mentioned in an earlier post and
2. Be located in an already dense area of downtown.
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southslider wrote:
Meanwhile, in St. Louis, a sea of surface parking and green space makes an unusually tall building stick out more, especially if not near other tall buildings.
A super tall building would stick out, but that's absolutely great.
Let's observe Nashville, TN - future home to the tallest building in the country outside of Chicago and New York (surpassing Atlanta).
Or a little more extreme (and not so close to home), the Burj Dubai....
Point is that a new supertall adds dramatic character to a city and is an essence, a sign of a city's progress. With all the improvements St. Louis is seeing, adding a supertall building would be a crowning achievement to the Gateway to the west, not to mention opening up more possibilities down the road. In Nashville's case, it's apparent that the new 1000+ ft. Signature tower will spurn the skyline to expand/grow with future additions down the road.
The St. Louis skyline in particular should not be limited to the arch. The arch's view and signifigance can be easily maintained by good planning. Atlanta for example, has a skyline that is incredibly spread out. I wouldn't want to see the exact same happen in St. Louis, but I don't want this city's modern progress limited to artificial restrictions and unjust concerns.
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That's a neat looking ballpark in the foreground of the penultimate photo.
What building is this? Just an office tower, or does one company plan to occupy the whole thing?
What building is this? Just an office tower, or does one company plan to occupy the whole thing?
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The Central Scrutinizer wrote:
What building is this? Just an office tower, or does one company plan to occupy the whole thing?
Signature Tower (residential/hotel), 1,047 ft.
Nashville dose have a bit of a dodgy skyline , anyways lets place are bets: 20 to 1 This project will never happen? Hmm any takers?
Lets face the facts the Mogwan Brothers aren't commercial class A developers , they deal mainly with Loft developments. How can you expect a developer with such limited experience to first finance then build such a complicated development? They just don't have the experience to pull it off. Secondly there's very little demand for such a large project. No local bank in its right mind would finance such a large spec development without some pretty signifcant letters of intent from a tenate looking to lease a large chunk of space.
Folks Its not going to happen.... I hate to be negative but lets face the facts!!
Lets face the facts the Mogwan Brothers aren't commercial class A developers , they deal mainly with Loft developments. How can you expect a developer with such limited experience to first finance then build such a complicated development? They just don't have the experience to pull it off. Secondly there's very little demand for such a large project. No local bank in its right mind would finance such a large spec development without some pretty signifcant letters of intent from a tenate looking to lease a large chunk of space.
Folks Its not going to happen.... I hate to be negative but lets face the facts!!
Prophett wrote:Nashville dose have a bit of a dodgy skyline , anyways lets place are bets: 20 to 1 This project will never happen? Hmm any takers?
Lets face the facts the Mogwan Brothers aren't commercial class A developers , they deal mainly with Loft developments. How can you expect a developer with such limited experience to first finance then build such a complicated development? They just don't have the experience to pull it off. Secondly there's very little demand for such a large project. No local bank in its right mind would finance such a large spec development without some pretty signifcant letters of intent from a tenate looking to lease a large chunk of space.
Folks It no going to happen.... I hate to be negative but lets face the factsaa
Not saying the odds aren't long, but did you read this post on page 1?
jlblues wrote:Details: (Straight from the mouth of Kevin McGowan)
MW stands for McGowan|Walsh...
71-story, mixed-use building. First 20-something stories would be hotel on top of (what looked to be) about 6-8 stories of parking, next 25 or so stories are office, then condos the rest of the way up. The site hasn't been finalized, but it is narrowed down to six sites. The preferred site is along Chouteau Lake. Didn't say exactly where, but I think close to the ballpark. It would have around 350,000 SF of office space, of which, according to Kevin, ~300,000 SF is being seriously considered by a local company. If Chouteau Lake is a go, and the office tenant commits (which probably depends on the lake happening) it could be going up in five years...
Not from the mouth of Kevin, thus purely my own speculation:
This building is a bit too optimistic for any place other than Ballpark Village, thus I believe this building is a proposal from McGowan|Walsh for a project to be co-developed by McGowan|Walsh and Cordish as part of Ballpark Village, IF the city and the Cardinals/Cordish can come to some agreement on incentives/city backing of the TIF.
EDIT: Oh yeah, and there is also the fact that the 350,000 SF of office space in the MW Tower specs is the same amount of office space that was in the Ballpark Village specs
The design of the building is ok, but rather uninspired. If you wanna see the rendering, go by the Packard Lofts sales center (at least it was there this weekend)
-RBB
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Prophett wrote:Lets face the facts the Mogwan Brothers (sic) aren't commercial class A developers , they deal mainly with Loft developments.
McGowan Brothers <> McGowan/Walsh
Prophett wrote: No local bank in its right mind would finance such a large spec development without some pretty signifcant letters of intent from a tenate looking to lease a large chunk of space.
You are right about that - with out a major tenant this size project doesn't get built anywhere -but who would have guessed 2 years ago that Isle Casinos would relocate to the metro area. They now have a good amount of space in "downtown" Creve Coeur. All it takes it one company to decide to move to the region and consider downtown and none of us here can say one way or another if that will happen.
It may not/probably wont happen, but the fact we are talking about high rise buildings in the CBD (numerous projects that ARE being done and a lot more that have an honest chance of being realized in some capacity), we are showing everyone that St. Louis City is for real - making it that much more likely that it will happen. As STL is showing everyone now, a lot can change very quickly in real estate....
That Nashville tower is pretty cool. Of course, it's no more likely to get built than McGowan's, but I still love looking at these renderings. The Dubai tower may be my all-time favorite skyscraper (and it's actually under construction!).
Thanks for the posts, Guy.
Thanks for the posts, Guy.
You know, even without that building, as I drove through Nashville recently, I was quite impressed with their skyline. It appeared larger than I expected.