Passenger, High Speed Rail in Midwest

JuanHamez · PostOct 23, 2013#5762013-10-23T23:41+00:00

STLEnginerd wrote:
Tragic would be if it terminated in East STL.
Honestly if I was IL I might INSIST on the terminus being in East St. Louis. All that money spent and you are going to let the end point be in another state. I'd probably try rework the 5th and Missouri Metrolink Station with the HSR terminal housed under one roof somehow to make it feel cleaner and safer.

Also on a side note I would probably try to change the name of East St. Louis to St. Louis IL.

I actually like this idea a lot. Rename East St. Louis, build the rail line. With Northside regeneration going on, why not get Illinois to try to match with a similar big project on their side?

While they're spending 50 billion, they should siphon off 500 million and stick a new "University of Illinois at St. Louis" near that station. God knows theres enough free land near there. 2 Million would probably buy it all.

gary kreie · PostOct 24, 2013#5772013-10-24T03:16+00:00

There are several proposed high speed rail maps for the US out on the internet. Such as this one on Wikipedia.

Before we let this happen, maybe Missouri should:
1) Start the line toward Little Rock
2) From the Little Rock Line, T off toward Memphis at the Arkansas border to become the main line to New Orleans, instead of the Chicago to New Orleans line.
3) Only agree to build a line from KC to Chicago if Illinois agrees to a line from St. Louis across Illinois toward Louisville, Indy, or Cincinnati.

I prefer this map on the US HIgh Speed Rail Association site:

shadrach · PostOct 24, 2013#5782013-10-24T13:44+00:00

^I've seen that map and laughed. It pays no attention to geographic obstacles.
I've driven I-8 from San Diego to Phoenix and I-24 from Nashville to Atlanta. Without miles long tunnels or massive elevated spans, there's no way to maintain high-speeds crossing these mountains. Phoenix to LA would make more sense regarding traversing mountains but still very difficult. I think someone was just playing connect the dots.

mill204 · PostOct 24, 2013#5792013-10-24T15:06+00:00

It make little to no sense to build a STL-MEM-LIT high speed rail line. There's just not enough population to support the route. And that includes building it as an extension of a CHI-STL line.

STL-IND doesn't make much sense, either, but it is feasible only because it can piggyback on a CHI-STL line for much of the way (all the way to Urbana-Champaign).

shadrach wrote:I've seen that map and laughed. [...]I think someone was just playing connect the dots.

Exactly my opinion.

captainjackass · PostOct 24, 2013#5802013-10-24T16:05+00:00

^How does STL-IND not make much sense? Is there not that much travel between the two on the interstate?

imperialmog · PostOct 28, 2013#5812013-10-28T10:37+00:00

In terms of needing to build a 220mph HSR line across the Mississippi River downtown, isn't there a need to build a new rail line there in the near future anyway? Since if so why not combine it on one bridge?

roger wyoming II · PostOct 28, 2013#5822013-10-28T12:59+00:00

shadrach wrote:^I've seen that map and laughed. It pays no attention to geographic obstacles.
I've driven I-8 from San Diego to Phoenix and I-24 from Nashville to Atlanta. Without miles long tunnels or massive elevated spans, there's no way to maintain high-speeds crossing these mountains. Phoenix to LA would make more sense regarding traversing mountains but still very difficult. I think someone was just playing connect the dots.

Short-term of course you're right. But The United States of America should be no engineering weakling, and there is no reason why we can't create a true high-speed national system in the coming decades. I'm not sure at what point America stopped thinking big, but we have to change our attitude if we want to move this country forward. We can blow a trillion on foreign wars and its no big deal.... spend a billion on infrastructure and America's troglodytes get the vapors.

JuanHamez · PostOct 28, 2013#5832013-10-28T16:18+00:00

shadrach wrote:^I've seen that map and laughed. It pays no attention to geographic obstacles.

This is just a matter of money though. I took the HSR from Beijing to Hong Kong once and in southern China, its as if you're switching from tunnel to elevated rail constantly as its flying through the mountains. Its really quite impressive series of tunnels and bridges for hundreds of miles. Huge portions of track look like this:

roger wyoming II wrote:[
I'm not sure at what point America stopped thinking big, but we have to change our attitude if we want to move this country forward. We can blow a trillion on foreign wars and its no big deal.... spend a billion on infrastructure and America's troglodytes get the vapors.

I agree with you there. With the money we blew on the war in Iraq, we could have had a high speed rail already, sent astronauts to mars, AND guaranteed every child in america a free college education, with money to spare to modernize our cities.

It really bothers me that many of our politicians are elected to power under the banner of fiscal responsibility and then turn out to be essentially militant anarchists with their policies of foreign wars and starving the beast.

shadrach · PostOct 28, 2013#5842013-10-28T18:31+00:00

Hey guys—I never said it couldn't be done. And yes, it's beyond sad the USA can't seem to built first-rate infrastructure regardless of the mode of transportation. (I was responding within the fiscal constraints of our previous/current administrations spending habits. That's a whole other rabbit trail. Or rabbit hole, depending.)

In spite of that, the high cost to build lines in across the Mountain Time Zone is probably not worth it considering the topography, distance and population density. But California, Texas, Florida, the MWRRA plan and the Eastern Seaboard should be light years ahead of where they are now. Basically, the first map 'Vision for High Speed Rail in America' should be well under-construction and not just a 'vision.'

wabash · PostOct 28, 2013#5852013-10-28T19:36+00:00

Fully double-tracking the routes between KC-STL and STL-CHI with 110-mph track would be a great first step. And while things are moving in that direction, it is happening far too slowly.

PeterXCV · PostOct 28, 2013#5862013-10-28T19:56+00:00

If the high speed trains needed tracks of their own to cross the river could they put them on (former) the road deck of the Macarthur bridge?

teddykratch · PostOct 29, 2013#5872013-10-29T14:27+00:00

I believe the old road deck is currently being removed on the Macarthur Bridge, if it is has not already been completed.

In addition, there is a little info in this article from 2011 on the use of the Merchants bridge vs. the Macarthur bridge by Amtrak. https://www.stlbeacon.org/#!/content/16 ... eplacement

I also thought I saw in an EIS at one point that the Macarthur was being considered in the future for replacement or rehab to make it 4 tracks, but I cannot seem to find that information right now.

EDIT: If you search back in this thread a ways there is some good discussion on bridge options, replacements plans, etc.

roger wyoming II · PostOct 29, 2013#5882013-10-29T14:58+00:00

Here is a timely article on the discussion about Saint Louis to Alton improvements:
http://www.stltoday.com/news/traffic/al ... 216a9.html

Basically they are engaged in a detailed EIS to examine options for improvements in the region utilizing either the MacArthur, Merchants or a new bridge. So hopefully within 2 years there will be a solid plan followed by a priority on construction. The article also mentioned 2014-1016 will be a busy period for 110 mph upgrades in the non-urbanized areas of the STL-CHI route.

MarkHaversham · PostOct 29, 2013#5892013-10-29T18:02+00:00

Any idea how long until we see material improvements in travel times? Do we have to wait until 2015-2016?

roger wyoming II · PostOct 29, 2013#5902013-10-29T18:26+00:00

^ I would suspect that might depend on how much construction delays things..... as a lot of track work will be done b/w now and 2016 I think we may not see consistent improvements on overall travel time or on time performance until things have settled down a bit.

teddykratch · PostOct 29, 2013#5912013-10-29T20:52+00:00

I think we may not see consistent improvements on overall travel time or on time performance until things have settled down a bit.

I totally agree, but I will say on time performance has already greatly improved, in my opinion. When my fiance and I were dating long distance (Alton/Chicago) one of us was on Amtrak nearly every weekend. After a lot of the improvements went in, we (anecdotal evidence here) we experienced a lot fewer delays. In fact, there was a period of time where probably 50% of the time I was arriving early in Chicago Union Station.

If you look at the Amtrak Historical On Time Performanceof STL to CHI trains, in the last 12 months, they're all very close to 90% on time. (look at the individual trains because all of the Illinois corridors are lumped together, and on time performance is terrible on the other corridors)

http://www.amtrak.com/illinois-services ... teOverview

I think that better on time performance is one of the best outcomes of investment in the corridor. I think Amtrak suffers from the perception that it's always late, and if they can start to kick that perception we'll see only more increases in ridership.

MarkHaversham · PostOct 29, 2013#5922013-10-29T21:11+00:00

My wife and I rode the STL-CHI route over a dozen times 3-5 years ago and never noticed a delay, except one time when the train hit and killed a person. Was the route's on-time performance really that bad?

Presbyterian · PostOct 30, 2013#5932013-10-30T01:59+00:00

Does the Texas Eagle get treated separately from the regional trains when assessing on-time performance?

JuanHamez · PostDec 23, 2013#5942013-12-23T18:27+00:00

Looks like the Lincoln service is getting wifi:
http://www.theatlanticcities.com/techno ... ders/7950/

wabash · PostDec 23, 2013#5952013-12-23T20:18+00:00

Great news! Lincoln Service is the fastest growing line in the country by both ridership and revenue, free wifi should help that momentum continue. Also, the Gateway Station just passed 1,000 rider per day average for the first time. Free wifi on Lincoln Service, improved track to Chicago, and the new Osage River bridge on the Missouri River Runner route should all help ridership to & from Gateway Station keep improving.

roger wyoming II · PostDec 23, 2013#5962013-12-23T20:40+00:00

^ Seems like all these improvements are symbolic of Saint Louis City.... we're certainly not "high speed" yet, but we're making slow-but-steady progress that is making life more enjoyable.

quincunx · PostDec 23, 2013#5972013-12-23T21:33+00:00

A couple of the trains have had wifi for a while now. Definitely a nice thing. Still waiting for the new equipment and for time to come off the schedule.

dredger · PostDec 23, 2013#5982013-12-23T22:29+00:00

^ New equipment will be great as well as additional Lincoln service frequency, believe the bi level coaches are already in production @ Rochelle, IL and Siemens to be awarded the locomotive contract shortly. Both new coaches and engines are rated for 125 mph service and will both go towards the Lincoln and River Runner Service from my understanding.

http://trn.trains.com/en/Railroad%20New ... emens.aspx

Illinois DOT announces intent to award diesel locomotive contract to Siemens

Published: December 20, 2013

Siemens Train Landscape
A rendering of the proposed 125 mph diesel passenger locomotive from Siemens.

Photo by Siemens
SPRINGFIELD, Ill. - The Illinois Department of Transportation has issued a Notice of Intent to Award to Siemens USA to design, build, and deliver up to 35 diesel passenger locomotives for use on various routes in the U.S.

The Illinois Department of Transportation took the lead of the multi-state procurement of new locomotives for the departments of transportation from Illinois, California, Michigan, Washington, and Missouri. The new locomotives will be Tier 4 compliant, achieve a maximum speed of 125 mph, and be constructed in Siemens’ Sacramento, Calif., plant. The Sacramento facility is currently producing an Amtrak order for 70 ACS-64 electric locomotives for use on the Northeast Corridor.

wabash · PostDec 24, 2013#5992013-12-24T00:57+00:00

quincunx wrote:Still waiting for the new equipment and for time to come off the schedule.

Agreed. Hopefully the new equipment along with the sections of improved track thus far get the line below the 5 hr. threshold.

m2tbone · PostDec 24, 2013#6002013-12-24T02:43+00:00

According to the St. Louis Business Journal, the Missouri River Runner route is getting Wi-Fi, too.

http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/news ... wi-fi.html

"Amtrak also will install free Wi-Fi on the Missouri River Runner route, which operates between St. Louis and Kansas City."

Passenger, High Speed Rail in Midwest

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