urbanSTL

the count wrote:

quincunx wrote:Here's IDOT's HSR site. It has a very in-depth video on how the Track Renewal Train (TRT) works from UP.

http://www.idothsr.org/

Other than that "in-depth video" that site is worthless.

dredger wrote: The impact to the St Louis region. Political support for second tier corridors like CHI-STL will not get off the ground if we can't get HSR in CA, FL or Northeast. Regions with ideal population centers, ideal distances and congestion begging for options beyond another more expensive then the last lane mile addition.

Dredger's got it right.

The Northeast, California and Florida corridors are all prime candidates for high speed rail. They very well qualify: The right short-to-medium distances combined with a high population density. A Chicago-St. Louis line could work but is not a slam-dunk. The distance between the two cities is on the high side and the population density on the low side for an HSR system. We're certainly not a primary corridor.

Don't get me wrong. I am a huge proponent of high speed rail and would like nothing more than to be able to sit down and relax on board an HSR train whisking me to Chicago in an hour or two. But I am also a realist. HSR is very, very expensive. We might be able to pull it off but we'll have to be very smart and creative to make it happen. Read more about HSR and the challenges for an STL-CHI line in my write-up HERE

You're using California as an example of a place with perfect distance as oppose to St Louis and Chicago? Chicago and St Louis are 4 and a half hours apart. A 220 mph train would get you there in 2 hours. How is that not perfect distance? Also, the line is one of the busiest lines in the midwest, if not the country. Then there's also the fact that 99% of the line would be in Illinois, one of the friendiest states, if not the friendliest state for high speed rail.

[quote[Durbin Asks DOT to Send Unused Federal Rail Money to Illinois
WASHINGTON, D.C.--(ENEWSPF)--February 16, 2011. U.S. Senator Dick Durbin (D-IL) today sent a letter to the Secretary of Transportation, Ray LaHood, asking him to consider the Chicago Hub Network if he chooses to redistribute the high speed rail funding that the Governor of Florida rejected earlier today.

Durbin wrote: “Almost one year ago, the entire Illinois Congressional delegation wrote to you communicating our belief that Illinois provides the best opportunity to invest in high speed rail. Since then, the Department of Transportation has awarded over $1.4 billion in high speed rail funding to Illinois, including funding for the CREATE project, new rail service from Chicago to the Quad Cities and implementing 110 mph service on the Chicago to St. Louis line. Workers are currently engaged in these projects, but more can be done. Illinois is ready and willing to put rail dollars to work if other states are not.”

[/quote]

dredger wrote:Xing, I think the big difference is the fact that the CA corridor would serve population centers totalling +25 million. Easily twice as much or more as CHI-STL. At the end the day that will do a lot to sell HSR as well as bring in a Private Public investment.

I agree, but we're also talking about a metro area of 12 million people, connecting with St. Louis, our closest GLOBAL economy . Your point diminishes Chicago's perspective on the issue, more so than adds to the perspective of St Louisans. American workers often travel to cities with a 1 hour travel time (not so much the case in St Louis). I lived in Washington D.C., where 1, or 2 hour travel times were common. To work in Chicago, with a 2 hour travel time, and if you lived in St Louis, is amazing.

A unique few, travel to cities with a 2 hour travel time. Many people in Milwaukee, for instance, travel to Chicago daily for work. Their travel time is between 1 and 2 hours. Many use regular speed Amtrack. Their state recently rejected high speed rail, and Illinois took some of its funding, after doing so. High Speed Rail can, at first , creat 2 hour morning travel times. The most recent speed tests of high speed rails suggest that, in the near future, it could be down to just 1, or even less for St. Louis and Chicago.

If your state has so little to spend on this, why fight it? Most of this project covers the state of Illinois, not Missouri. 99% of this project is in Illinois.

xing wrote:You're using California as an example of a place with perfect distance as oppose to St Louis and Chicago? Chicago and St Louis are 4 and a half hours apart. A 220 mph train would get you there in 2 hours. How is that not perfect distance? Also, the line is one of the busiest lines in the midwest, if not the country. Then there's also the fact that 99% of the line would be in Illinois, one of the friendiest states, if not the friendliest state for high speed rail.

Reread the article. I wrote about distance in combination with the right density. A California line, which I am not so sure of it will be built anytime soon with very hard terrain to navigate and astronomical cost, would connect LA, a 17 million MSA with SF, an 7 million MSA through the middle of a state with a population of 37 million. The line would run about 420 miles and stop in Bakersfield and Fresno, both with MSA's of about 1 million. A California line would serve about 40% more passengers per mile. And yes, Illinois is very friendly but also very broke.

xing wrote: I agree, but we're also talking about a metro area of 12 million people, connecting with St. Louis, our closest GLOBAL economy . Your point diminishes Chicago's perspective on the issue, more so than adds to the perspective of St Louisans. American workers often travel to cities with a 1 hour travel time (not so much the case in St Louis). I lived in Washington D.C., where 1, or 2 hour travel times were common.

The Chicago MSA is 9.5 million, the CSA 9.8 million.

To work in Chicago, with a 2 hour travel time, and if you lived in St Louis, is amazing.

It sure is but is it economically feasible? I am not saying per se that it is not. We do know however that it will be very expensive to built and operate and it's not like the state of Illinois (or the nation) has money laying around.

The most recent speed tests of high speed rails suggest that, in the near future, it could be down to just 1, or even less for St. Louis and Chicago.

Right, trains have been tested at speeds of 350 MPH. This doesn't mean that it is economically feasible. A train running at that speed consumes 4 times the energy of a train running at 175 MPH. Further, to build a track that could accommodate trains that fast is prohibitively expensive. CHI to STL in an hour will NEVER happen. BTW: Ever heard of Concorde?

If your state has so little to spend on this, why fight it? Most of this project covers the state of Illinois, not Missouri. 99% of this project is in Illinois.

You lost me here.


In general:

I am a huge proponent of public transit and would love to see a CHI-STL HSR line.

Let's speculate for a moment: The estimated cost of building a line suited for 187 MPH is $13 billion and would get us to CHI in just over two hours. A 220 MPH track would cost more like $ 20 billion to build with operating cost about 35% higher. If we could save $7 billion by delaying our arrival to Chicago with 10 minutes and split the $7 billion we saved, we'd have $3.5 billion to improve and extend MetroLink.

^ The same way they keep animals and things off of highways?

German high-speed train derails after hitting sheep

(Reuters) - Three people were injured when a high-speed German Intercity Express (ICE) train carrying 170 passengers derailed after hitting a herd of sheep in a tunnel near Fulda, German police said on Sunday. [...]

The train was travelling faster than 200 km (120 mph) per hour. It was en route from Hamburg to Munich when it hit into the herd of sheep that had wandered into the 11-km (7-mile) long tunnel near the central town of Fulda.

The ICE train, which can travel at speeds of up to 250 km (155 miles) per hour derailed late on Saturday, with the first four of 12 carriages coming off the track. It came to a halt about 1 km (0.6 miles) after hitting and killing the 20 sheep.

dredger wrote:That investment would also pave the way for a futre SW to NE communter line - Valley Park,MO to Alton, IL

I like the way you think! We really need to start getting some commuter lines going around here!