urbanSTL

I have been trying to find some specific info on next round of high speed rail grant applications, FY10 appropriation that is separate from stimulus money. So far I haven't had any luck on finding if their was any new grant applications from IDOT or MoDOT concerning the Chicago - St. Louis - Kansas City corridor. Couldn't find any info either IDOT's high speed rail website, Midwest High Speed Rail Association website or the East West Gateway.

Beating the dead horse, but the metro region seems to behind the eight ball in my opinion and as far as I can tell from East West Gateway council website is that they have pretty much left any interest to improve rail infrastructure within the Metro area to IDOT or MoDOT.

The best info was a story posted by Engineering News Record

http://enr.construction.com/infrastruct ... ations.asp

Twenty-five states have filed 77 applications totaling more than $8.5 billion for the U.S. Dept. of Transportation's next round of high-speed-rail grants. Many applicants will be disappointed: DOT only has about $2.3 billion to distribute.

The department expects to announce the winners of the new round of grants "in early fall," says Rob Kulat, a spokesman with DOT's Federal Railroad Administration.

FRA did not have a list of applicants available. Based on reports from some, but not all, states, among the largest requests are from California, which is seeking $1.58 billion, and Florida, which is applying for $1.1 billion.

Another sizable request came from New Jersey, which is applying for $885 million.

The largest item for the Garden State is a replacement for the Portal Bridge over the Hackensack River on Amtrak's Northeast Corridor.

Thanks, a little more info as noted below. Dissappointed that IDOT and/or Midwest High Speed Rail Association could not come up with another grant application for either Chicago (CREATE program) or trackwork improvement in Metro East, Alton to Downtown St. Louis. The other thought is that stimulus grants for Wisconsin and Ohio have ran into strong political headwinds, maybe LaHood is telling parties that the money will stay in the Midwest if not spent by either WI or OH.

Illinois and Iowa have applied jointly for a $248 million grant to connect Iowa City, the Quad Cities, and Chicago with a new intercity rail route. This project would eventually allow two daily round trips between the destinations with maximum speeds of 79 mph.

Based on what was sent in, I do hope NJ gets full funding on their request to replace a bridge that essentially chokes the Northeast corridor

This Globe-Democrat article mentions 6 projects applied for by Missouri. No details though.

In addition, Missouri has received $31 million for high-speed rail projects under the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act earlier this year and applied for six more projects on August 6, 2010.

G_D link

Thanks, found the MoDOT site with the six applications posted. Thought MoDOT put together a nice website for their support of rail between KC - STL

One of the applications include an extension of the lead track as you depart downtown Westbound to KC (Terminal Railroad Track Improvements), the description in the application does a good job of explaining how a seperate lead track seperates the freight traffic coming into the downtown yard and Amtrak trains arriving from KC.

http://www.modot.org/othertransportatio ... tyInfo.htm

Applications for FY 2010 Individual Project funding for corridor projects were filed by MoDOT on August 5, 2010 with the Federal Railroad Administration. The link above provides a corridor summary of the application effort. The following links are individual application information:

Knob Noster
Terminal Railroad Track Improvements
Bonnot's Mill Universal Crossover
Hermann Universal Crossover
Jefferson City 3rd Mainline Track
Jefferson City 3rd Mainline Track Preliminary Design and Environmental Funding

I wish they'd applied for a canopy for the platforms at the station. Maybe that's something Amtrak has to apply for or allocate out of its capital resources.

I'm dumbfounded by the idea that you stop high speed rail service 60 and 30 miles from respective downtown centers for metro areas that have combined population of plus 10 million. This mentality wouldn't be found in Europe, Japan and certainly not for the newest high speed rail lines in China. It is also why I don't think most people don't understand where the money is spent for high speed rail, it is not in the Metro area.

http://www.stlouiscnr.com/departments/a ... t_to_alton

High Speed Rail from Dwight to Alton?
Alton could emerge the winner in the Illinois' high speed rail sweepstakes.

Last month, Union Pacific and the Illinois Department of Transportation began upgrading tracks on the line that runs from Alton northeast to Springfield to handle faster passenger trains, trains that could run at 110 miles per hour. Senator Richard Durbin said the $98 million, 90-mile track upgrade project to Lincoln has created 900 jobs.

Now Alton may get some more good news on its bid to become the St. Louis terminus for the Chicago-St. Louis high speed rail line. Citing high ridership figures from Alton on Amtrak's St. Louis-Chicago run, and the availability of land, Alton bid for money for a new, larger train station and parking lot. The city above the locks was competing with East St. Louis to become the St. Louis end of a high speed rail line to Chicago. The Chicago end of the high speed line actually will be in Dwight, more than 60 miles south of downtown Chicago.

Sources tell CNR that Amtrak has picked Alton's bid and Senator Richard Durbin will make an announcement about it in the coming weeks.

^ I would imagine this will impact the next round of expansion of Metro lines in the Metro East. Alton would have a new pitch over Edwardsville. Though I'd still go with Edwardsville.

This article makes no sense. All the trains that will run on the upgraded tracks of UP will go from Chicago's US to STL's downtown station. The tracks from Alton to Dwight will be upgraded such that they can go 110 mph.

Have you guys ridden Amtrak out of St. Louis to Chicago? Trains don't even come close to 79 mph on the existing track structure until it is on the north side of Alton. Instead, I believe the trains are actually travelling on track that is under yard classification and restricted to a maximum speed.

My point, I think the metro region isn't putting nearly enough emphasis or effort on the corridor between Alton and downtown STL which is in need and ripe for some more funding. Especially if Ohio drops its share of High Rail grants for the 3C's corridor and a new Wisconson Gov puts a halt to its project.

^I rode Sept 25 STL-SPI and back on the Texas Eagle. According to my GPS we did reach 80 for a few mins on the STL-ALN segment, but the avg speed was a pathetic 32 mph. ALN-CRV avg 62 and CRV-SPI was 57. IDOT's applicationf or the HSR money did show ~15 mins coming off of STL-ALN, so I hope there are some improvements coming. I suppose the application and what the award funds could be different. BTW the new track is smoother.

Could somebody clear this up for me?

So the most recent grants for high speed rail went to upgrading the already in-place rail lines to 110mph. And that is currently going on.
But, there are also studies that have been done for new 220mph rail lines from here to Chicago. But there is nothing going forward for a 220mph line?

Do I have that correct? Is there anything happening with the 220mph line or are we stuck with 110mph line currently being upgraded?

The Midwest HSR Association did a small study for true HSR for STL-CHI via Champaign. They estimated $12B for electrified, grade-separated, passenger-only 220 mph ROW, not including a new Mississippi river bridge. IDOT applied for money in the latest round for a multi-million dollar engineering plan for route evaluation/ cost-estimates/ engineering etc.

The $1.1B that Illinois got for STL-CHI is to upgrade the already existing UP ROW from Alton to Dwight for 110 MPH. UP's freight trains will still use this. New passenger train sets are included, but are still diesel-powered. Illinois has hopes for another $3B to double-track the route and run 9 trains each way daily.

Thanks Quincunx,

We are going to be ‘given’ this upgraded 110 MPH segment (max - not average much less guaranteed) for a large rural segment of the route. The biggest issues/obstacles to faster routes (either all being 110 or a new separate 220+ MPH) is NOT the new river bridge cost or the route from Alton to downtown STL no matter what the IDOT line is.

The entire bumblef*** of rail that is Chicago prevents faster route for that portion of the line (hence these improvements stopping at Dwight). Having worked on numerous rail projects in Chicagoland, I know it is impossible to go faster than is currently done, at least from a dispatching perspective. To rectify that would be a nightmare, a problem even Chicago politicians don’t want to fully tackle. So they are going to, for pennies on the dollar, build the CHI - STL line to prove HSR demand will be high enough to support a “TGV/Bullet Train” type system on dedicated ROW. Once the line “proves to be successful” they will build their state-of-the-art mid 21st Century trophy: West Loop Transportation Center - a proposed four-level intermodal transfer center just west of downtown (between and including Chicago Union Station and the Ogilvie Transportation Center; near Boeing Headquarters) which would connect commuter/intercity rail, CTA rapid transit (including a new red line reliever subway) and Central Area transitways. To feed this new terminal, Chicago will build out a HSR system that will entrench them at the center of the mid-west (and American) cutting edge high speed passenger rail. As we have all seen the plans – it will connect STL, Indy, Detroit, Twin Cities, Milwaukee etc.

This is seen as the savior to Chicago transportation… their “transportation ego” has been deflated - Chicago passenger rail has fallen to 3rd in America behind Washington Metro (DC) so they need to build and expand on a grand scale. DC got the NEC and their Metro is now busier than the EL... Chicago thinks they need to get more people coming into the loop, more people riding rails to then transfer to the EL. No different than what is happeneing with O’Hare since it has fallen behind Atlanta - I'm talking both about the United and American consildations (making it a bigger hub) and (SUPRISE!) the foresight to have a $6.7 billion plan funded and well underway to handle more traffic.

So basically the political windfall will be for Chicago and Illinois… and STL / Missouri ‘benefit’ only because 99% of the total line will be in Illinois. Nearly all the "stimulus jobs" are in Illinois, and that is where the political muscle come from (and the political benefit). As long as the Chicago machine stays in power – there is a high chance of it (or something resembling it) happening and the only city which will benefit vastly is Chicago.

Alas, the lack of vision on the part of St. Louis regional leadership (insert City/County Merger talk here) will have us elated to be a part of the system instead of an integral part of the system. St. Louis will be nothing but a spoke – capable of being cut off like much like Lambert was once TWA left – relegated to a feeding passengers to Chicago so they can grow while we stagnate as a “midsized hub.”

I see in the Siemens add, now showing up in the forum between posts, that its Velaro train can go from St. Louis to Chicago in 2 hours and 12 minutes. Go to this site and click where it says "click here". It shows the Midwest hub and the time it takes to get from city to city via Velaro rail vs. air, bus, car, and covered wagon. One could leave for Chicago at 4, have dinner in the loop at 7, and be back home in St. Louis by 11.

http://www.Siemens.com/highspeedrail

tbsqr, I have to agree that Chicago will remain the center of Midwest HSR hub and the bulk of the funds will be spent in Illinois. No question there. Even if it isn't going to happen for Alex, myself or any of us in the immediate future. The reality, unless something causes a drastic population shift, is that Chicago is a Global city and St. Louis is a Tier II or III city on the world scene.

However, Where I differ in opinion is that HSR would be of significant benefit to St. Louis. First, as Alex so duly noted, is that the distance is such that HSR really does mean a relatively short trip in terms of global travel or even significant continental travel. This matters. Second, Downtown St Louis has been making progress in finding niches markets such as data centers. To build upon that along with low cost low tax place for back office work will succeed in part due to good travel options with frequency for executives. Either it be a quick train trip from Boeing's HQ in Chicago or a InBev executive visiting their NA HQ from New York. Finally, Lambert will not be a hub in the foreseeable future. However, some select international flights connecting St Louis with other Global cities along with a HSR to Chicago would be a win win situation for the region

Last year I rode the train to Chicago. On the way back, we were stopped on the tracks for 20 minutes waiting for a tow truck to move a car that was parked too near the tracks for the train to safely pass. This was in Downtown St. Louis.

Twenty minutes to get from the Mississippi River to 14th street!

Dredger -
I don't disagree that Chicago is a World Beta City and St. Louis is a tier 2 American City... 9.7 Million metro and __ fortune 500 compnaies compared to 2.8 Million Metro with __ fortune 500 companies.

Will St. Louis benefit from a semi or true High Speed Rail connection with Chicago = yes.
It is along the same lines as the Olympics (which they never got). St. Louis was thrilled with the prospect of getting ancillary early stage competition. We would have gotten several tens of millions of dollars to upgrade this or account for that. GREAT! Chicago wanted the whole $5 Billion deal. New extensions to their mass transit (their existing El was conceived around the 1893 Worlds Fair), upgraded infrastructure - a ture city changing experience.

I'm not stupid enough to think in this day where Beijing, Sydney, London, Rio and other true Global cities get the Olympics that St. Louis could even hold it if given the opportunity (look no further than Athens). The Olympics and Lambert are just examples. It is the mentality that saddens me (and Alex's children).

Chicago got to be "Chicago" (partly) because they live up to their motto: Make No Small Plans (or something along those lines according to the guy in the Willis/Sears Tower).

I think St. Louis is in as good position (geographically almost as good, existing layout in a much better situation) to be a hub for HSR. Chicagoland is far from ideal, minus the political will to get this and other projects done and I guess with $$ and the Chicago Machine - anything can be made to look like a match made in heaven.

St. Louis has optimal geographic distance to cities like KC, Memphis, Indy, Nashville, Des Moines, Tulsa. They are smaller (KC instead of Detroit, Memphis instead of twin cities etc) than Chicago's hub - but for rail models that isn't a bad thing. Also more of those cities are growing (Nashville or Tulsa compared to Detroit) and St. Louis is ideally located for eventual connection to both the proposed Southeast network based around Atlanta - as well as the Texas Network based around Dallas - Fort Worth.

While Chicago is straining under the weight (of its success) in being the #1 freight rail destination- St. Louis is doing good at #3 with an abundance of extra rail capacity. There currently exists a rail trunk line directly downtown (just south of I-64 - same situation that exists in KC), and 2 cities in the same state making for less (potential) red tape.

Heck, here in KC, there is talk about either a light rail line or a 100 mile plus regional rail system that would connect to a high speed rail line to St. Louis and have street cars. Two cities that have multiple modes (3+ each) of passenger rail in this state? Plus while STL is #3 as a freight rail hub, KC is #2 - and there are a huge amount of cross state abandoned corridors because of this great tradition in these cities. Plus it would be a lot easier than I-70 for me to get back to St. Louis at the holidays. These and a LOT of other factors make St. Louis a good chance to get in on the ground floor - while the idea is hot - jobs are being created - the network is being built. St. Louis and KC should start real talks to bring TRUE HSR to KC - then we should go to Memphis right down the straight and level and existing I-55. That way, when Alex's grand kids get to ride to Chicago - there is a network here that justifies trains going to Chicago - and the STL to Chicago link is more a link of Equals than a spoke on the "Chicago centered Midwest High Speed Rail network".

Fenton Plant - Chinese based company's US manufacturing/Assembly plant they make HSR cars there - its right on the railroad (rail access at the site was a reason the plan was placed there to begin with) and in the future Chinese Capitol of the mid-west.