Passenger, High Speed Rail in Midwest

quincunx · PostJan 28, 2010#1762010-01-28T15:35+00:00

The Federal Government's.

Link to article at thetransportpolitic.com

According to the Chicago Tribune article, track upgrades for 110 mph service are from Dwight to Alton. I hope they intend to make improvements from Alton to StL, because that segment is pathetically slow. Just getting the avg speed up to 55 mph would save 15 mins.

Link

shimmy · PostJan 30, 2010#1772010-01-30T16:18+00:00

High-speed rail promises 6,000 jobs — Will one of them be yours?
Project expected to last three years

BY BRIAN BRUEGGEMANN - News-Democrat

ALTON -- Gov. Pat Quinn, speaking at a news conference at the Alton Amtrak station Friday, said the high-speed rail project announced for Illinois will provide an estimated 6,000 jobs.
Quinn said the jobs would last for three years, the estimated length of the project.

"That's 6,000 jobs for people to work and earn a good wage, get good benefits," the governor said.

Quinn said Illinois would be contributing about $700 million to the first phase of the project, to go along with $1.2 billion that Illinois will receive from the federal government to develop high-speed rail service from St. Louis to Chicago. The money from the federal government is part of $8 billion that President Barack Obama announced earlier this week for developing high-speed rail on routes scattered across the country.

Although Illinois' fiscal condition is bleak, Quinn said the state's investment in the project is worth it.

"It's all about jobs. No. 1 is jobs," he said.

http://www.bnd.com/homepage/story/1110757.html

PostFeb 01, 2010#1782010-02-01T23:18+00:00

Money woes could threaten high-speed rail's future
The Associated Press

CHICAGO -- High-speed rail fans appear giddy after an $8 billion injection of federal stimulus cash into several planned networks. Many are convinced a transportation revolution's now officially under way.

But the money the White House awarded last week, including to Illinois, isn't even enough to get the networks half done. And it's unclear if the more than $60 billion it'll take to finish them will ever come.

http://www.bnd.com/breaking_news/story/1113478.html

With a $3.8 trillion budget submitted today, I really don't see another $50 billion coming our way to get this done.

gone corporate · PostFeb 02, 2010#1792010-02-02T01:09+00:00

^ A few things to avert your potential fears:

1. Watching all costs is essential here. From StLToday.com:

Weber said he didn't know whether Illinois and Amtrak will have the 12 new locomotives and 30 cars in the budget by 2012. But Marc Magliari, Midwest spokesman for Amtrak, said the locomotives now in use — 4,250-horsepower General Electric engines built in Erie, Pa. — already can go 110 mph, as can the existing passenger cars.

Source: http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/s ... enDocument

Quid pro quo: They're not going to spend a lot on the trains themselves, just the rail lines. We're not going to have new & expensive bullet trains, just regular Amtrak trains with the hammer finally able to drop. They're starting off on the cheap.

2. It's $1.1B to have quality infrastructure in the President's home state; selective geography alone should bring the money in. And, noting how POTUS is from Chicago and is big on jobs, infrastructure, social transportation, and positioning Chicago as the midwest train hub for the long term, the Chi-StL line will move forward enough to make the rest viable. Or: F the other lines, get the one with Chicago looking best done first.

3. Continuing on geography: a major line rework to StL would make cities like Cleveland and Minneapolis, with bigger populations and near proximities to Chicago, fight harder to secure funding so they can have quality lines, too (long-term time frame here).

4. After trashing the C-17 assembly in the budget's announcement today, on live tv, POTUS has to make it up somehow to close ally Claire McCaskill, for whom the StL Assembly Lines at Boeing are both her constituents and her campaign supporters. Royally caked her efforts today, he's got to make it up to her interests somehow. Pure politics.

Getting the US to look like Europe: not going to happen for $8B. But, if that $8B goes out short-term and is initially successful, then look for long-term revamp construction along other lines in the US, even building fully new lines across it.

Near-term, I could care less for lines to Milwaukee or other places; I want the StL-Chi line built ASAP.

dredger · PostFeb 02, 2010#1802010-02-02T02:06+00:00

You can add another one to GC's list - population increase while have to be might with more resources and expanded capacity.

While it is easy to add lanes miles between Dwight and Alton, major urban areas are running out of right of way. It is becoming a very expensive proposition to add lanes miles without significant cost both in terms dollars and political capital (emniment domain issues).

mill204 · PostFeb 02, 2010#1812010-02-02T02:27+00:00

^^ Another thing to consider is whether the proposed $4 billion in rail line upgrades can later be utilized as part of a true HSR line or will the initial investment end up as money down the drain? HSR greater than 125 mph require full grade separation and complete segregation of freight and passenger traffic. It'd be terrible to spend billions on a mildly faster 110mph line only to find out it will all go to waste if Illinois decides they later want true high speed rail.

quincunx · PostFeb 02, 2010#1822010-02-02T17:16+00:00

Mill204 wrote:^^ Another thing to consider is whether the proposed $4 billion in rail line upgrades can later be utilized as part of a true HSR line or will the initial investment end up as money down the drain? HSR greater than 125 mph require full grade separation and complete segregation of freight and passenger traffic. It'd be terrible to spend billions on a mildly faster 110mph line only to find out it will all go to waste if Illinois decides they later want true high speed rail.

The $1.1B upgrades the current route owned by UP between Dwight and Alton to one capable of 110 MPH. The rest of the $4B plan double tracks the route from Joliet to StL. UP's freight trains will still use these rails. True high speed requires passenger-only tracks, electrification, and grade separation, so it is highly unlikely that this route will ever carry true HSR. Here is a link to the proposal from the Midwest HSR Association for 220 MPH line from StL to Chi via Champaign:

Link

gone corporate · PostJun 02, 2010#1832010-06-02T17:38+00:00

General question: What is the process for this to actually be built? Or, any progress yet?

I ask because, as I'm watching CNBC, I'm hearing the President speak at Carnegie Mellon of international competitiveness, including the needs to catch up to foreign countries that encourage math & science in schools and have high speed rail systems.

Since we are supposed to be having the Chi-StL high speed line put in place, and as I have yet to see a shovel or schematic planning, I'm just wondering how this project will actually be implemented. Call it my naivete, but if this is funded and dedicated, I'd like to know how to see progress. While I haven't been expecting this to be a simple shovel-ready project, and that this will take a period of years to complete, I would like to know of anything, if anything, being accomplished.

Oblidged.

Alex Ihnen · PostJun 02, 2010#1842010-06-02T18:15+00:00

I think the only thing that's been approved for STL-CHI is an upgrade to the current line that MIGHT get trains to 110mph.

dredger · PostJun 02, 2010#1852010-06-02T21:10+00:00

I believe the preffered CHI-STL high speed route has been identified on the Midwest High Speed Rail Association website. It is a $4 billion dollar investment at a minimum.

http://www.midwesthsr.org/images/networ ... _large.gif

As Alex noted, the recent HSR grant essentially improves current route to 110 service in the rural areas of Illinois. The grant will do nothing for the slow speeds between Alton, IL into St. Louis or tackle multiple issues in the Chicago area. I'm not sure if IL DOT is taking the lead. However, A nice plan on how to get there

http://www.midwesthsr.org/priorities/lincoln.html

http://www.midwesthsr.org/docs/lincoln.pdf

On a second note, their is another round of funds available from the FY10 budget. I believe another 1.5 billion was set aside for HSR and grants are to be given by the end of the year. Which gets to a question. What is being done about the worse section of trackage, Alton into St. Louis?

The Alton, IL to St. Louis section of rail is essentially a yard lead with various restrictions, poor track, and other issues. I can't seem to find any plan on part of East West Gateway or ILDot to capitalize on unused funds or tackle this section of rail being established as seperate urban HSR corridor. Unfortunately, The plans on the above links discuss Chicago Flyovers but nothing that discusses the Metro St. Louis region.

It is possible that California stumbles and another $2.5 billion becomes available on top of the fact that Ohio was given $800 million for new service that is not really desired politically and amounts to 40 mph trains. It seems that having a plan for the Metro Region along with a agreement with private freight rail should be a priority.

quincunx · PostJun 03, 2010#1862010-06-03T20:35+00:00

Check out rhe IDOT application. Of likely interest are pages 97 (probable train schedules), 112 (spending by year), and 134 (project schedule , completion Q3 2014).

PDF (big)

Here's a bunch of articles in the State Journal-Register about the plans and conflict over the route through Springfield. Some of the commenters are similar to ones we have here.

sj-r.com

It's best to keep the route on 3rd St and have the station downtown, however a bunch of overpasses would be ugly and ruin the urban and historic feel of downtown and pedestrian scale of neighborhoods. I'd vote for a trench for the tracks, probably more expensive though.

Imagine an overpass here (streetview)

or here. Who would want to swim in their front yard with an overpass next to your pool?

DaronDierkes · PostJul 16, 2010#1872010-07-16T12:40+00:00

You guys should check out this video from American 2050.

As I wrote elsewhere, I don't believe America 2050 has the interests of St. Louis in mind when they're drawing their maps. The tendency to bypass stl for a Chicago-KC or Chicago-Memphis route is particularly irritating.

I really think we should oppose those as much as we possibly can. Carbondale and Kirksville should not be able to outweigh or out earmark St. Louis. Why should the federal government invest billions of dollars in undermining us and proping up rural college towns? This is one of those points where democracy should trump heavy-handed planning.

pat · PostJul 16, 2010#1882010-07-16T15:06+00:00

I don't get the impression at all that they want to bypass St. Louis for KC or Memphis. Their Phase 1 includes St. Louis. With Phase 2 going from St. Louis to KC.

One of those slides I think you refer to is only showing the number of flights from each city to Chicago. It wasn't showing rail.

They also talk about connecting cities with established inner-city transit systems. We have that. The others do not.

They talk about reducing traveling times between cities to 2 hrs spurs economic development. That would happen with us. Not KC or Memphis.

Why build a rail from Chicago to KC when there is established rail to St. Louis continuing on to KC? You also connect three cities together rather than two. Not including the cities in the center of Missouri, Columbia and Jeff City.

bonwich · PostJul 16, 2010#1892010-07-16T15:27+00:00

pat wrote:Why build a rail from Chicago to KC when there is established rail to St. Louis continuing on to KC? You also connect three cities together rather than two. Not including the cities in the center of Missouri, Columbia and Jeff City.

Well, because the established route is Chicago-KC. It's seven hours on the direct train and 11 hours through St. Louis, with a one-hour layover here.

dredger · PostJul 16, 2010#1902010-07-16T19:17+00:00

Bonwich is referring to Amtrak's Southwest Chief that happens to run on BNSF's double tracked Transcon router that goes directly from KC to Chicago, it is how all the container trains from Port of LA/Long Beach get to Chicago.

Please find link to map

http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentSe ... 7405732511

PostJul 16, 2010#1912010-07-16T19:27+00:00

I think a more important issue for the region is what to do with rail infrastructure between Alton, IL and downtown St. Louis. Can stakeholders get together and propose a dedicated two way track for passenger trains or do we continue to see passenger trains travel within the metro area on an existing freight line at yard posted speeds of 10 mph? Can we put together a design build project that might actually capture some high speed rail funds that are still available? The question of Alton to St. Louis rail infrastructure is just as big as building the new Mississippir River bridge or getting a China air cargo hub for the region and needs to be addressed a lot sooner in my opinion.

First, I believe their is still a question on if Ohio will ever use their High Speed stimulus grant. The grant essentially starts service that averages 39 mph and has been roundly criticized. Some 450 million that might go back up for grabs. Second, the next pot of high speed money is 2.5 billions. After that its back to politics and whatever happens with the multi year transportation bill which got extended to December without any meaningful changes. Their was a push to add $50 billion into the next multi year bill. A meaningful investment for once but completely dependent on politics to happen.

DaronDierkes · PostJul 17, 2010#1922010-07-17T03:06+00:00

Right, there is already service from Chicago to KC, STL, and Memphis. That's part of Chicago's hub status. My point is that any new investment should recognize that improving the connection to St. Louis and letting St. Louis connect to KC and Memphis would be a better use of money for folks in Chicago. Upgrading the other two lines shouldn't be a priority.

Pat, view the blog I linked to for a better visual.

Isn't the Alton alignment getting major upgrades from all this money Illinois has been borrowing?

The Metro-East is the number two metro region in the state of Illinois. Hopefully all this can cement their position in state politics.

dredger · PostJul 19, 2010#1932010-07-19T01:21+00:00

Daron, I believe the bulk of the High Speed grant award under the stimulus bill is going to the rural stretches between Dwight, IL and Alton, IL if not mistaken. Very little of those funds will go to improve the rail infrastructure within Metro East itself.

However, thats my point. Their is another round of grants for high speed rail. I can't find any reference to furthering the cause of rail access into the Metro region. Fear that the next round of grants will essentially go to Florida for the Orlando-Tampa run and the North East Corridor.

In essence we will end up with slow trains leaving and departing the metro regions with fast stretches along the corn fields.

quincunx · PostJul 19, 2010#1942010-07-19T02:00+00:00

The schedules for the HS service show the time to Alton at 26-28 mins, indicating some improvement to the infrastructure. Thank goodness, the train goes painfully slow for much of the route to Alton. BTW, a ticket is $2.50 if you ever want to take a slow train to Alton.

DaronDierkes · PostJul 19, 2010#1952010-07-19T04:00+00:00

I live in Seoul along line 1. KTX (Korean High Speed Rail 300 km/hr) stops at Seoul Station and Yongsan. At my stop, Noryangjin, the train just flies through on its own designated track. It isn't that loud, but it is really fast. It's in the station for only a few seconds. Freight runs nearby on yet another track.

Downtown to Alton commuter rail and HSR could use the same stations. There's no reason for it to take a half hour. I guess I just assume Chicago and Springfield will figure it out for us, but St. Louis probably should take some leadership on this.

quincunx · PostJul 20, 2010#1962010-07-20T20:32+00:00

Looks like some upgrades to the stretch between Alton and Springfield will begin soon.

The Illinois Department of Transportation and Union Pacific Railroad will begin making upgrades on a 90-mile stretch of rail that runs from north of Alton to south of Springfield. The installation of high speed rails and concrete ties is scheduled to start in September.

KMOX stroy

gone corporate · PostJul 20, 2010#1972010-07-20T20:41+00:00

Great news; glad to see actual work is about ready to begin.

More from the BizJournal:
http://stlouis.bizjournals.com/stlouis/ ... rround=lfn

zink · PostJul 21, 2010#1982010-07-21T16:19+00:00

Are they saying that by December that one $90 million project will have cut the time down to 4.5 hours? Or that after EVERYTHING is complete, it will be 4.5 hours.

quincunx · PostJul 21, 2010#1992010-07-21T16:37+00:00

After everything is done it'll be under four hours.

PostAug 06, 2010#2002010-08-06T14:04+00:00

Some more details of the $98M project. Track work starts at Godfrey on Sept 4.

sj-r.com article

Preliminary work will affect some of the Amtrak Trains starting today.

sj-r.com article

Passenger, High Speed Rail in Midwest

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