urbanSTL

I was thinking the same thing! Put the HSR station at the East Riverfront MetroLink station and give riders a few minutes to admire the view of downtown St. Louis and the Mississippi River before boarding the only light rail system in America to cross state lines, and over the oldest bridge to span the Mississippi River.

Have these facts out and about at the stations. 

And then build up those lots over there. It'd be such an opportunity to finally anchor the Illinois side of Eads Bridge with attractions and services that could make the bridge itself more of an attraction. 

RockChalkSTL wrote: ↑

Sep 05, 2024

You can get from any East St. Louis MetroLink station to any of the downtown St. Louis MetroLink stations in fifteen minutes or less. And it's only fifteen if you were riding from JJK to Union Station. It would be under 10 minutes for most riders. 

It takes 1 hour, 1 minute on Metra to get from Joliet to downtown Chicago. 

If there is going to be a problem with this plan, it's going to be on the Chicago side. 

Yes I have ridden Metrolink before and am aware of the proximity of East St. Louis to Downtown. But Downtown is a place travelers are often trying to get to, as opposed to East St. Louis. Downtown needs development! Taking things out of Downtown (which still has many vacant buildings) just to put them in one of the most bombed out communities in the nation in the hopes that it will spur revitalization boggles the mind. 

I'm not sure what is boggling your mind. 

Illinois is the one planning this. I doubt Missouri even picks up their phone calls. 

It's going from an Illinois destination to an Illinois destination as a result. 

As an urbanist in this city, I feel it's very important to downtown and to the region that Metro East make a comeback with attractions and services that draw the people in a region that is sprawling west... back east. 

If you were to put this on the East Riverfront, with the only thing separating it from downtown St. Louis being the Mississippi River, you wouldn't consider that a win?  

addxb2 wrote: ↑

Sep 05, 2024

I predict they’re going to find a private builder and operator. They’ll release a big RFQ/P and have it coincide with large state supported highway and transit projects along the way.

No disrespect but believe this is even a bigger pipe dream.  The thought of a private entity building new HSR (true high speed) or even 110-125 on new Right of Way with a lot of private land owners, a lot lot of utilities, in a pro union state and a heavily regulated state.     It is taking California years just to acquire Right of Way, settle lawsuits, get environmental clearances (just recently settled another dispute) years to clear utilities just to get to a point of tangible construct on hundred odd miles or top of.  On top of it, just look how much trouble a private entity had tried to build between two booming Texas metro areas (Dallas to Houston) on an established utility corridor.  

Where as Brightline West commenced construction on a line that will be 110-125 within existing freeway right of way which gives you one owner with minimal right of way.    They will have it build by 2028 LA Olympics where as big question if Cal HSR will even have a train running on a 120 mile segment.    

I'm thinking the bridge component could be something more likely to get federal money. Especially since it could be seen in the context of national infrastructure priority since it could be used for HSR, non-HSR, and any future regional rail while moving said traffic away from the current rail bridges improving freight rail capacity. A dedicated passenger rail bridge over the river would be used by several types of passenger rail.

RockChalkSTL wrote: ↑

Sep 05, 2024

I'm not sure what is boggling your mind. 

Illinois is the one planning this. I doubt Missouri even picks up their phone calls. 

It's going from an Illinois destination to an Illinois destination as a result. 

As an urbanist in this city, I feel it's very important to downtown and to the region that Metro East make a comeback with attractions and services that draw the people in a region that is sprawling west... back east. 

If you were to put this on the East Riverfront, with the only thing separating it from downtown St. Louis being the Mississippi River, you wouldn't consider that a win?  

There's several different arguments going on at once here, so I'll say yes, I do realize IL is funding some study pie in the sky study of HSR possibly only within IL, but I am in complete disagreement with that decision, I think it's a stupid one. 

Separately, you actually agree with the state of IL that this is a good idea. Regardless of state funding, you think this is a good idea and I do not. One of the biggest advantages of rail as opposed to air travel is that it drops you off in the central business district. No, I do not think that putting this station on the East Riverfront is a win. I think that it is good the station is Downtown and I want to keep it that way. I am also skeptical of your assertion that an Amtrak stop in East St. Louis would revitalize the area, as opposed to making Amtrak less attractive. What, people are just going to move there so they can live next to a train station? Additionally, this makes it less convenient for riders themselves, which I actually think should be the focus here. At least the current station, while not particularly nice, connects with numerous bus lines in addition to Metrolink and has many hotels nearby. In a slow-growth, auto-oriented, region like St. Louis, I'm skeptical that those things just pop out of the ground because there's a train station nearby. 

I'm not saying leaving the Metro East to decline is what I want, I do disagree with you that this is a good way to do so and that it would be successful. 

Great video that was just released regarding St. Louis to Chicago HSR.

Springfield Metro 700K?!?   I had to check notes as that is MUCH larger than what I recall.  It is about 208K.  Big differece.

Back to the more pragmatic front of 110 mph corridor service is the announcement of a CRISI Springfield rail grant.   Believe there is mixed opinions on the Springfield realignment but any capacity and grade separations along the Lincoln corridor is a good thing.  

I also believe there was also a grant in moving Chicago CREATEs 75th street project further along.   Don't believe it helps Lincoln service but will help passenger rail/freight move through & out of Chicago as a whole better.

https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews ... si-grants/

— $157.1 million for the final segment of the Springfield Rail Improvement Project in Springfield, Ill., which consolidates rail lines from Third Street to 10th Street and includes several grade-crossing separation overpasses and underpasses. The project also includes other track improvement and realignment, and construction of a new Amtrak station. (Note: The press release from U.S. Sens. Dick Durbin and Tammy Duckworth, and U.S. Rep. Nikki Budzinski does not mention the CRISI program, but the timing presumably indicates this is a CRISI grant.)

Can a few high speed trains skip Springfield? London to Paris is the same distance as Chicago to St. Louis. But they don’t stop. 2 hours.


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I wonder how much time that would actually save. From what I understand the bulk of Lincoln Service ridership is between Chicago and Bloomington/Springfield. 

PeterXCV wrote: ↑

Oct 28, 2024

I wonder how much time that would actually save. From what I understand the bulk of Lincoln Service ridership is between Chicago and Bloomington/Springfield. 

The biggest time saving elements would involve improving the track situation around Chicago and to a lesser extent near St. Louis to minimize stopping due to freight traffic. Fixing the tracks near Chicago if I recall also will allow for more frequency, and any reduction in time and increase in reliability is going to increase demand. There are likely some other points along the route and elsewhere that can be improved to increase speeds and/or reduce stopping.
Related to this there a grant was issued to improve flow in Milwaukee which will increase frequency on the Chicago-Milwaukee Hiawatha route. That will help expand travel opportunities from St. Louis by having more more options to switch trains in Chicago boosting Lincoln ridership more. Now just need to also see frequency increases on routes going East from Chicago to add more travel opportunities.

I do not use the train due to the time,  If it were faster I would be a new user.  Also, the one time I did use it, I was severely delayed on my return trip.  I think I got in almost 4 hours later that I should have.

Minnesota Star Tribune - Amtrak’s Borealis train ridership reaches 100K in five months
The St. Paul-Chicago route is exceeding projections.

https://www.startribune.com/amtrak-bore ... /601168286

shadrach wrote: ↑

Nov 02, 2024

Hopefully they’ll consider extending the route up the BNSF line to Duluth.

That is in the works, though as a separate route. Also going northwest from the Twin Cities towards Fargo along existing Empire Builder which won't be too hard since the infrastructure is already there.

Good news from California

SF Gate - Caltrain's electrification project is paying off big-time


https://www.sfgate.com/travel/article/c ... 917422.php

Maybe others know better then I but when it came to the big slug of rail Instructure dollars set aside its seems like funding not related to the Northeast Corridor and HSR funding has been slow to come out.  What has come out is mostly through CRISI grants, including Springfield's grant above.  Believe their was or still is a significant infrastructure funds set aside for outside of the Northeast/intercity service but haven't looked up lately.  

I bring it up because I thought Chicago CREATE/Joliet Improvements would have seen much more then it has from Feds by now as well as assumed that an easy grant/investment would more Lincoln Service capacity expansion/double tracking/siding extensions especially when UP doesn't fight it (helps move containers into Chicago area) as say CSX would have.  Missing something? 

In the KSDK story about the Kirkwood station renovations, they brought up adding a 3rd STL-KCY run for the World Cup. I'll believe it when I see it

quincunx wrote: ↑

Feb 26, 2025

In the KSDK story about the Kirkwood station renovations, they brought up adding a 3rd STL-KCY run for the World Cup. I'll believe it when I see it

This is being studied for a regular frequency increase at the current time (along with extending the line to St. Joseph). Could be the World Cup is when to start it. Though if I recall one issue right now is there isn't enough equipment at this time in the Midwest pool to expand service.

If this was done, what time of day would it run? I'm guessing leaving each end around noon. This would induce demand since it opens up more day trip and weekend getaway opportunities.

imperialmog wrote: ↑

Feb 26, 2025

quincunx wrote: ↑

Feb 26, 2025

In the KSDK story about the Kirkwood station renovations, they brought up adding a 3rd STL-KCY run for the World Cup. I'll believe it when I see it

This is being studied for a regular frequency increase at the current time (along with extending the line to St. Joseph). Could be the World Cup is when to start it. Though if I recall one issue right now is there isn't enough equipment at this time in the Midwest pool to expand service.

If this was done, what time of day would it run? I'm guessing leaving each end around noon. This would induce demand since it opens up more day trip and weekend getaway opportunities.

The issue is that the state that would be funding it is Missouri. We're the only solid red state in the country to support a fully in-state inter-city Amtrak train, while Texas and Oklahoma support the one other red state train.

After a Slow Start, High-Speed Rail Might Finally Arrive in America
https://archive.ph/vV2ME

It is frankly ridiculous what Amtrak is charging for business class on the Lincoln Service. Basically the same sh*tty seats that have no cushion and don't recline, no service whatsoever, and a free drink that amounts to a couple bucks of value. For 70 something bucks there should be a free meal minimum.

I will still use the Lincoln service as an alternative to flying but we really missed the train with these new cars. I suppose we will have to suffer for 30-40 years until we get another shot (assuming Amtrak survives that long).