^ Well, in this case the garage could go where it is in the rendering above and either the Tucker side could be left with room to build on in the future or a smaller structure could be built facing Tucker and hiding the garage.
@ Moorlander +1!
As much as we all decry our car-centric planning, it is simply a fact of life. I live in the Syndicate and it was critical that I could park two cars in the garage (or at the garage next store, potentially). I have a relatively short commute (I work near the airport) but my time and comfort are important to me, and when I lived at the Ludwig (1 block walk from the Culinaria/garage) those winter months could be miserable and easily added 5 minutes to my commute (it may not sound like much, but it adds up). Plus, it is still subject to environmental factors and a lack of security. So, as a downtown resident who has to commute by car every day, I understand where the Park Pacific project is going.
Having said that, the garage is atrocious. It's better than the empty lot that is there, and much better than if they had bought the Jefferson Arms to tear it down and pave a surface lot in its place (hey, less intelligent things have happened!). Hopefully, this rendering is just a first stab at the final design and we will see something more like what was originally envisioned. I am not optimistic, though, given the significantly higher costs of building new vs rehabbing and the fact that the market still is what it is. I'll keep my fingers crossed.
As much as we all decry our car-centric planning, it is simply a fact of life. I live in the Syndicate and it was critical that I could park two cars in the garage (or at the garage next store, potentially). I have a relatively short commute (I work near the airport) but my time and comfort are important to me, and when I lived at the Ludwig (1 block walk from the Culinaria/garage) those winter months could be miserable and easily added 5 minutes to my commute (it may not sound like much, but it adds up). Plus, it is still subject to environmental factors and a lack of security. So, as a downtown resident who has to commute by car every day, I understand where the Park Pacific project is going.
Having said that, the garage is atrocious. It's better than the empty lot that is there, and much better than if they had bought the Jefferson Arms to tear it down and pave a surface lot in its place (hey, less intelligent things have happened!). Hopefully, this rendering is just a first stab at the final design and we will see something more like what was originally envisioned. I am not optimistic, though, given the significantly higher costs of building new vs rehabbing and the fact that the market still is what it is. I'll keep my fingers crossed.
Everything below the glassline on Cityside in that old rendering is for parking, minus the first floor retail.
It bothers me that there is a lot of "do this, do that's" from people who don't really have the whole story on Park Pacific. It was supposed to be so much more, but then the recession happened and a lot of compromises unfortunately had to be made.
It's a plan in progress, so the garage design could change, it may not...but, and I HATE to use this argument, believe me, at least one of the most beautiful buildings I've seen in STL (the interior lobby is spectacular) will be getting rehabbed and filled.
And the parking makes it a more attractive option for potential tenants. Unfortunately the STL region isn't a walkable, urban place for the most part and people here demand a place for their cars.
It bothers me that there is a lot of "do this, do that's" from people who don't really have the whole story on Park Pacific. It was supposed to be so much more, but then the recession happened and a lot of compromises unfortunately had to be made.
It's a plan in progress, so the garage design could change, it may not...but, and I HATE to use this argument, believe me, at least one of the most beautiful buildings I've seen in STL (the interior lobby is spectacular) will be getting rehabbed and filled.
And the parking makes it a more attractive option for potential tenants. Unfortunately the STL region isn't a walkable, urban place for the most part and people here demand a place for their cars.
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^ A lot of us know the history of this building and appreciate that it is being rehabbed. What we don't appreciate is that by only image we've seen of the project there's going to be another ugly parking garage facing a major downtown St. Louis street and once built it will likely stay there for 50yrs.
^Believe me, I get it. The POV of forum members isn't hard to figure out. I'm disappointed, too. I hate that rendering.....but it's only one and who knows if it's final.
As someone who has knowledge of the project in more than just a following it in the Post Dispatch kind of way & has been directly affected by the delays this project has suffered, I can tell you the developers wish they could realize their original plan, but economic circumstances have dictated the course this project will take. It's easy to sit on the sidelines and offer critique when it's someone else's money being used and not your own and to finance a deal you have to compromise for the greater good of the projet.
As someone who has knowledge of the project in more than just a following it in the Post Dispatch kind of way & has been directly affected by the delays this project has suffered, I can tell you the developers wish they could realize their original plan, but economic circumstances have dictated the course this project will take. It's easy to sit on the sidelines and offer critique when it's someone else's money being used and not your own and to finance a deal you have to compromise for the greater good of the projet.
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That's a good point. But again, it's not about realizing the original project, it's about hiding the garage, or not putting it up against Tucker. They don't have to build the new residential point for this happen.olvidarte wrote:^Believe me, I get it. The POV of forum members isn't hard to figure out. I'm disappointed, too. I hate that rendering.....but it's only one and who knows if it's final.
Sometimes I think progress is about taking what you can get, because you can't get to the density that can make that property any more valuable as something other than a parking structure without alot more growth. This is especially true in lean times like we are currently still in.
So I for one am fine with it if it gets this building finished.
So I for one am fine with it if it gets this building finished.
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Am I not being clear? I say, go ahead and build the parking garage. The parking garage is OK. I'm fine with the parking garage. The parking garage is needed. Just don't have it face Tucker.
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^ I'm going to have to disagree. I think they SHOULD build the garage. It's a necessity to the project. I might throw in the suggestion that maybe it wouldn't front Tucker, though...
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A comment like this screams that we are ok settling for the status quo. We are better and should think bigger than that. I would much rather wait another 5 years and combine the parking spots with office or apt/condo's on top like in their original rendering. Its better to do it correctly which will pay dividends years down the road as opposed to throwing something up just for the sake of finding a use for the land.clellchatman wrote:Sometimes I think progress is about taking what you can get, because you can't get to the density that can make that property any more valuable as something other than a parking structure without alot more growth. This is especially true in lean times like we are currently still in.
So I for one am fine with it if it gets this building finished.
I am 100% against the garage rendering in the photo and feel it must be hidden to try and create a more interesting setting along Tucker.
Don't know where to draw the line, but at some point you have to be realist and have movement forward even if it is not the ideal location of the parking garage. At the moment their is plenty space downtown and any development will reduce the footprint and make property increase value. When space becomes a premium then you have a much better chance of demanding a higher standard. In the meantime, I'm still trying to figure our why the original Missouri Pacific HQ didn't face Tucker Ave to begin with. Anybody have an insight on that?
St. Louis was a very dense city when the MP building was built. Undoubtedly, the lot facing Tucker was already the site of a major building. I'd be interested in seeing what had been there.
From historicaerials.com, it looks like it was a still a parking lot in 1971, and possibly the same in 1958. Check it out here:Framer wrote:St. Louis was a very dense city when the MP building was built. Undoubtedly, the lot facing Tucker was already the site of a major building. I'd be interested in seeing what had been there.
1958: http://www.historicaerials.com/featured ... ?poi=10849
1971: http://www.historicaerials.com/featured ... ?poi=10850
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Obviously there would have been something there. I think you can see a bit of the building in this postcard - it would be the one with the flags on the right side of the postcard. The Jefferson Hotel is on the right.
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Do you think the developers or owner would entertain a facade that matches the original building on site? Undoubtly it would cost more. It would be an interesting perspective then the same bland attempts or even the lack of an attempt to disguise a parking garage.
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The Business Journal is reporting that construction will begin in the first week of May which, by my calendar, is next week!
Well for the past week there has been 3 drilling trucks. I am guessing pylons 
for the garage?
for the garage?Depends how big the drilling trucks are. More likely just doing geotechnical work for the garage.
The are trucks used for taking boring samples. Note the size of the drill/auger on the back.
I'm assuming that they are doing the final geotechnical work before they do caissons or drive pile. Expensive proposition if the engineer has made some bad assumptions on soil type and you discover it during construction.
I'm assuming that they are doing the final geotechnical work before they do caissons or drive pile. Expensive proposition if the engineer has made some bad assumptions on soil type and you discover it during construction.
I was excited to see them taking material samples. That is such a good sign to see actual final engineering prep work for construction. This is seeming to be a good spring.
http://www.mayorslay.com/blog/post.php?postID=17226
-RBBKey players in the $109 million Park Pacific development are the U. S. Department of Housing and Urban Development, and Steve Smith of the Lawrence Group. Originally conceived with a heavy residential condominium component, the development’s program was forced to change radically when the single-family mortgage market and associated construction financing market crashed. Fortunately, for this great old building, Downtown’s mixed use environment made it possible to retool and move forward with this development as upscale residential rental that can be converted to condominiums when the market recovers -- even while large numbers of single-family subdivision lots remain untouched in the burbs. In addition to the residential rental units, the development will include office and retail commercial space. HUD provided the more than $63 million in mortgage insurance (the largest in local office history) that made it possible for bonds to be issued and sold to the AFL-CIO Investment Trust. James Heard, director of the HUD Local Office, presented Steve with a ceremonial check at a ceremony last week. Steve and his company had worked for two years to reconstruct financing for the project. Federal and Missouri historic tax credits and federal New Markets Tax Credits from SLDC and others were all instrumental in making the development feasible, as was the City’s tax increment financing. Great Southern Bank is providing bridge loan financing, Gershman Investment served as financial consultant, and Paric will complete the renovation.
FYI, when I was walking in this morning the construction elevator was being used quite heavily. I guess this building is officially under construction again.
saw a lot of work on the property today!
Same as the rendering?
Will be a great infill addition!
Same as the rendering?
Will be a great infill addition!