urbanSTL

sc4mayor wrote: ↑

Feb 11, 2021

^ They already are.  Look at the little urban village they’re planning along the waterfront near Bangert Island.  It won’t have the density, height, or attractiveness that this does (it is St. Charles, after all)...but it’s in the same ballpark I’d say.

I don't consider streets of St. Charles to be equivalent to this. The CITY of St. Charles is a city in its own right that been around about as long as St. Louis. So any initiative the CITY of St. Charles takes to intensify its land use is welcome, imo. (obviously building in a flood plain is problematic). 

sc4mayor wrote:^ I didn’t say equivalent.  Main Street and a few other blocks aside, St. Charles is not a city in any real traditional sense, more just a sprawled out suburb.

Building residential and commercial development along a “faux” waterway in a flood plain in a region like STL doesn’t seem like anymore intelligent land use and regional planning than these other “urban” suburban developments.

But I do agree the developments themselves are a bit different...even if the effect on the inner parts of the region will be the same.

General thought, not really in response to this thread or anyone here, but felt like a good place to post what I’ve felt lately.

I love this blog, and never miss a post. (I never post, either...) City resident for years. But the constant St. Charles bashing on here always makes me cringe. We moan that the region needs to come together with a singular plan to attract business and young professionals, then turn around and sew division on here.

Don’t get me wrong... I would love to see investment in city neighborhoods, and for “places” in the city to grow organically, rather than development be forced into “Districts” in suburban areas. But healthy suburbs are integral to healthy regions. And so every time someone “city” takes a jab at St. Charles, etc it drives that division just a liiittle deeper between city and county. And that St. Charles (or St. Louis County or Metro East, etc etc) resident feels less inclined to cheer for the region to succeed.

While a riverfront development in a flood plain may be a head scratcher (agreed, sc4mayor), we have to model here the inclusivity a region requires to really thrive. And it starts with removing the stake from our eye. Regional buy-in starts with inclusive language going both ways. And I’d love to see this blog be the model for that.

Happy Friday Saint Louis lovers. And thank you for all you post here - it’s one of my favorite communities to be a part of, week in week out.

^Indeed. Agree completely. Remember, folks; it's all St. Louis. 

sc4mayor wrote:I don’t disagree.  Except that I didn’t bash St. Charles.  Calling it a suburb that has sprawl isn’t offensive it’s just what it is.

I live in the County...this isn’t really a suburban “jab” at anyone.  Just saying that in a slow growth region like St. Louis these large “district” developments in the suburbs that cannibalize each other just don’t make much sense to me.

Oh...and that regional-ness goes both ways...I’m not feeling any love from St. Charles folks on this side of the river either.

I hear ya - didn’t say you were bashing it at all. Truly just a general sentiment that felt like it fit in this conversation.

Agreed that they don’t make a lot of sense either, and that they can be cannibalizing right now. Hopefully, if we build it, “they” (in this case, bet new folks from around the country) will come.

And also agreed that this goes both ways. Suppose I could frame it as a little challenge for the folks on here (myself included) to extend the olive branch first

Long live Saint Louis!


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Perhaps if Ehlmann felt compelled to think regionally, the same way as you, then the ideal reality could be closer than we think.

"The Townes at Wildhorse Village" and "Waterfront at Wildhorse Village" are being reviewed by the City of Chesterfield Planning Department.

Both of these are the "for sale" townhomes and single-family homes portions of the development and total 107 housing units.

https://chesterfield.mo.us/active-devel ... &pid=89784
https://chesterfield.mo.us/active-devel ... &pid=89785

Looks like a more sprawling Iron Hill.

That’s still pretty damn good for chesterfield

I don’t see any similarities to Iron Hill. With Clayco behind / involved with Wildhorse, and residential developments already working their way through Chesterfields zoning and approval process, this is going to actually get built and not be reliant on some retailer to sign on first.

Nice to see Clayco investing in an exurban CBD

More fragmentation

Laife Fulk wrote: ↑

Sep 11, 2021

I don’t see any similarities to Iron Hill. With Clayco behind / involved with Wildhorse, and residential developments already working their way through Chesterfields zoning and approval process, this is going to actually get built and not be reliant on some retailer to sign on first.

That's why I said "looks like".

Nobody:

Chesterfield: let’s approve more malls even though they’re going extinct and suburbia living is not viable. Oh and one already failed


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This isn't a new mall. Make fun of it all you want, but I anticipate a business or two from the city to relocate out to here.

Laife Fulk wrote:This isn't a new mall. Make fun of it all you want, but I anticipate a business or two from the city to relocate out to here.

Not making fun of it but its proven suburbia developments fail long term. Not in our life time but our grandkids will suffer the consequences. Sprawling doesn’t generate enough revenue for future years and its been proven! Urbanism is the only way to grow as a region. I don’t make this stuff up its been proven over and over! When it comes to time in 50 years to fix the roads, sewer systems, electrical grids suburbia municipalities will need to increase taxes to an extend that it will not support itself. While other regions to include KC is investing in Public Transit and concentrating their capital in their central corridor here in STL every single suburb wants to be center of attraction. I wish all this would work but its proven it will not.


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JJ, despite the name of this forum, there is no shortage of posters who don’t really care about urbanism. Disappointingly, there is also no shortage of posters who don’t really care about the health and success of the City.

BellaVilla wrote:JJ, despite the name of this forum, there is no shortage of posters who don’t really care about urbanism. Disappointingly, there is also no shortage of posters who don’t really care about the health and success of the City.

Lol… See how we agree on some stuff and disagree on other posts lol… But it is sad!


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