^ some well known people are really pushing for this. Now we know Les Sterman is part of Stenger's transition team and Stenger has said that St. Louis Co. must change its direction in regards to transportation, we could get some interesting results. Even if this is built as a legitimate BRT line, with a smaller streetcar component....I could get behind it. I really believe the region could build this if we approach this in segments, but obviously that would take leadership and regional thinking.
^ The segment approach is tough to put faith in considering that you literally have the under utilized cross county extension stopping short at Shrewsbury when county is or was pushing for any new metrolink line to Westport and another defacto freeway in South County Connector.
I am for the hybrid approach of a well built BRT route on the entire route if at least you can build a fixed street car line within the city limits. I see no reason why BRT and Streetcar line could not share the same right of way and on/off infrastructure if built right while at same time. I see it as a means for Metro and County to embrace politically. Something that has to happen for anything to happen. I think that would still give North County a decent transit option while giving the city a fixed transit line to encourage density to return to northside while giving existing southside density a good transit investment
I am for the hybrid approach of a well built BRT route on the entire route if at least you can build a fixed street car line within the city limits. I see no reason why BRT and Streetcar line could not share the same right of way and on/off infrastructure if built right while at same time. I see it as a means for Metro and County to embrace politically. Something that has to happen for anything to happen. I think that would still give North County a decent transit option while giving the city a fixed transit line to encourage density to return to northside while giving existing southside density a good transit investment
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US pledges nearly $1b for Green Line extension
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2014/1 ... story.html
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2014/1 ... story.html
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What do people think of SkyTran, "the physical internet", which is headquartered at the NASA Ames Research Center near Mountain View, California? It's a PRT (personal rapid transit) system. They're building one now in Tel Aviv.
-$10-15M per mile
-Suspended 20 ft in air
-Personal pod with just a few seats
-Supported by legs that can be installed in sidewalks and medians
-May reach speeds of 150 mph
-You can skip over the stations you are not going to and go directly to your destination
-Riders can summon a pod with their smart phone
-Will also be built in France, India, and San Francisco Bay area. Seattle is considering it as well.
-Runs 24/7
-Little or no pollution
The one in Tel Aviv will cost $70M for 12 miles and will only go 70 mph, but future SkyTran systems will likely be faster.
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-$10-15M per mile
-Suspended 20 ft in air
-Personal pod with just a few seats
-Supported by legs that can be installed in sidewalks and medians
-May reach speeds of 150 mph
-You can skip over the stations you are not going to and go directly to your destination
-Riders can summon a pod with their smart phone
-Will also be built in France, India, and San Francisco Bay area. Seattle is considering it as well.
-Runs 24/7
-Little or no pollution
The one in Tel Aviv will cost $70M for 12 miles and will only go 70 mph, but future SkyTran systems will likely be faster.
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I think that would be neat but i would really hope that the NS lines of Metro come to fruition in the near future.
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It won't be in the near future. The N-S Line will cost over $1B. I'm not sure, but I think STL County has maybe $250M or so saved up for the next MetroLink expansion. We've been saving that up for years now, too. However, SkyTran could be built 20 miles for less than $300M, and it would actually be possible to charge a mere $1 (one dollar) per ticket.
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^ Not that I've really looked into such a PRT system, but my hunch is that it would be rather impractical for mass transit purposes... potentially something like this could work in a more confined area like SLU campus (I believe UWV has something similar to this) or even in Cortex but I just can't see it as a workhouse taking people in mass fashion down Grand or Olive/Lindell or whatever.
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Why not? It will have multiple pods at each station and can handle the hourly passenger capacity of three freeway lanes on each guideway.
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^ just the general tendency of theory to get grounded in reality. Right now there isn't even a pilot built although it does seem like it is not as fanciful as the silly Elon Musk hub bub. Who knows, maybe in a few years Tel Aviv will demonstrate some success with this but its more Popular Science than reality right now.
Are there any examples of PRT successfully fostering urban investment and development?
The only examples of PRT I'm aware of are Detroit, Morgantown, WV, and Perugia, Italy, all of which I think have had limited impacts on their surrounding communities.
^Seems like this one should be filed alongside the Hyperloop as a fanciful and impractical concept.
The only examples of PRT I'm aware of are Detroit, Morgantown, WV, and Perugia, Italy, all of which I think have had limited impacts on their surrounding communities.
^Seems like this one should be filed alongside the Hyperloop as a fanciful and impractical concept.
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^ yes, Hyperloop, I couldn't think of it above.... what a steampile of poo!
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The only city in the world with an actual PRT system is Morgantown, WV, but it's a town with a population of a mere 50,000 and their system was built almost 40 years ago at a price tag not much lower than light-rail. I have been communicating with them about it. Although half the town's population uses their PRT, it's only 8.7 miles long and is extremely outdated. It mostly just connects UWV's campuses and has one stop downtown. They do not have the money for expansion right now, just as we do not have to money to expand MetroLink right now.
We'll see how it works in other countries and various parts of California, but for a system that costs less than 1/5 that of light-rail, is infinitely faster to ride around on, and costs less money for a ticket, it looks pretty, prettyyyyy, prettyyyyyyyyyyyyy, pretty good:
We'll see how it works in other countries and various parts of California, but for a system that costs less than 1/5 that of light-rail, is infinitely faster to ride around on, and costs less money for a ticket, it looks pretty, prettyyyyy, prettyyyyyyyyyyyyy, pretty good:
The cost of the N-S Line has often been cited as a barrier to its execution. Perhaps a shorter, starter line, something like Keokuk-to-Grand (7.5 miles) or Keokuk-to-Kingshighway (9.6 miles), could be completed for significantly less than the $1.1+ billion that has been estimated for the full N-S. Stopping at Keokuk would serve the intersection of Chippewa & S. Broadway, St. Alexius Hospital, and the I-55 Gasconade exit, without requiring a complete rebuild of I-55 to accommodate median running or elevated rolling stock.
The major drawback would be that such a starter line wouldn't make it to the County (it's another 4.6 miles to the envisioned Bayless station), which could diminish political support.
The major drawback would be that such a starter line wouldn't make it to the County (it's another 4.6 miles to the envisioned Bayless station), which could diminish political support.
Why would a S. Jefferson & Keokuk to Kingshighway & Natural Bridge line be any less likely to qualify than the entire Bayless to Florissant Valley Community College line?
$250M is a pretty good down payment that could get the deal done, if City & County wants to really think regionally.Gateway City wrote:It won't be in the near future. The N-S Line will cost over $1B. I'm not sure, but I think STL County has maybe $250M or so saved up for the next MetroLink expansion. We've been saving that up for years now, too. However, SkyTran could be built 20 miles for less than $300M, and it would actually be possible to charge a mere $1 (one dollar) per ticket.
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can we please just be logical and realize this won't happen in St Louis for at least 30+ years?
^ Agreed. Probably was the case before all of the recent sh*t but certainly is now.
I highly doubt it will take that long to get a major transit expansion off the ground. If that's the case there is no chance in hell that any type of major transit improvements happen in our lifetime. I think this thing is more about politics than money. If the region gets behind it and ewgateway approves it, the money will be found. The stlstreetcar is politically dead, for one obvious reason, North and South city will not be serviced. The only metro expansion that is politically and federally feasible is N/S. The region is really at a crossroad as far as Metrolink is concerned.Chalupas54 wrote:can we please just be logical and realize this won't happen in St Louis for at least 30+ years?
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Chalupas54 wrote:can we please just be logical and realize this won't happen in St Louis for at least 30+ years?
i don't see how Ferguson is going to stifle a prospective N-S Metrolink expansion. if anything, recent events will help the region to secure federal funds by making clear the need for equitable service.wustl_eng wrote:^ Agreed. Probably was the case before all of the recent sh*t but certainly is now.
Parhaps Bayless to Flo.Va.Co.Co. won't happen in 30 years (although I don't see why it can't), but it's reasonable to think part of it could be up and running by then. Civic Center to N. Grand & Natural Bridge would be under 4 miles. Seems pretty doable.Chalupas54 wrote:can we please just be logical and realize this won't happen in St Louis for at least 30+ years?
This project died over the summer. Ferguson is the only reason anyone is talking about it.
Give it a rest guys, there's a lot of respectable people who think this can happen and sources (like the moving transit forward document) that say so as well. But on a broader level these sorts of comments only really seem to be efforts to shut down this thread and I'd appreciate some more comments that actually contribute to the discussion from of the cynical crowd here rather than the "it won't happen you're fooling your selves" trope.