dbInSouthCity wrote:One more time. not going to happen in the next 20 years. There is no federal funds free until at least 2023ish.
2023 is 9 years out. Also, the funding options may be more diverse and available than you think.
The proposed funding sources for the St. Louis Streetcar (Lindell/Olive & 14th/N. Florissant) are:
Federal: FTA Small Starts, TIGER Grants, Congestion Mitigation & Air Quality Funding, SAFETEA Urban Circulator Grants
Local: TDD, TIFs, Land Value Tax, Public Private Partnership, Parking Fees.
There's no reason to think these sources couldn't be applied to a more N-S oriented streetcar than the current Lindell/Olive oriented line, although some of them might be more challenging to raise because of the decreased economic activity from the Central Corridor. Just saying "There isn't any" federal funding seems a bit defeatist. There is federal funding, and local funding, it might just take some creativity to get it all lined up.
WRT NS Metrolink, why can't the project begin with limited N-S connectivity, between say South Grand and Grand Center/CWE, and then expand northward and southward incrementally from there?
dbInSouthCity wrote:One more time. not going to happen in the next 20 years. There is no federal funds free until at least 2023ish.
2023 is 9 years out. Also, the funding options may be more diverse and available than you think.
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in 9 years is when New Starts will have funds for cities to compete again, no guarantee that N/S would win and there is no guarantee that the program will even be around if GOP takes over the Senate.
onecity wrote:WRT NS Metrolink, why can't the project begin with limited N-S connectivity, between say South Grand and Grand Center/CWE, and then expand northward and southward incrementally from there?
that would be a logical thing to do, 2-3 miles at a time. This is what should have been done with Amendment 7- ask for 200-300M to get it started instead of ask for $1.6billion when 1.48 was available for ALL MODES.
I think that, even without direct funding for transportation, some of these measures are worth consideration of the City of St. Louis, just to course-correct and establish itself as a forward-looking Growth/QoL city.
Just some quick research on the cigarette taxes:
1) As we're well aware, Missouri's $0.17/pack is the lowest of all 50 states + the District of Columbia. And they're not even that close to the next lowest -- Virginia at $0.30.
4) In Fiscal Year ending June 30, 2013, the City of St. Louis collected $1,638,000 in Cigarette Revenue (Pg. 129). So basically, 23.4 million packs of cigarettes were accounted for in St. Louis City during its prior Fiscal Year [NOTE: I don't have an accounting background, so correct me if I'm not reading the Financial Report correctly]
5) The question then is if, acting as a "County" as well, the City of St. Louis is within its rights to tax cigarettes for an additional $0.07 without a public vote on the matter, effectively doubling its Cigarette Revenue. Another important question is if the BOA/BEA even needs to do a public vote to do an even higher cigarette tax rate than $0.14/pack of twenty.
So in the current environment, no -- doubling the local cigarette tax isn't going to fund our N-S line, but it does gives you an idea of how we can flex the laws on Special Use taxes to creatively increase general funds which, in turn, could support a larger effort.
^ why can't metro do it like that? The article says the full line is 17 miles, seems like the city and county could strike a deal to build it incrementally over 20 years or so. With a new segment breaking ground every few years. Seems like that could get done and keep people engaged in the process.
goat314 wrote:^ why can't metro do it like that? The article says the full line is 17 miles, seems like the city and county could strike a deal to build it incrementally over 20 years or so. With a new segment breaking ground every few years. Seems like that could get done and keep people engaged in the process.
If all things were relative, the Southside portion would take priority, if for no other reason than that it hits more dense areas, business corridors and employment centers. Unfortunately though, in the City of St. Louis, all things are not relative. Any action taken to improve transit for the southside would immediately be met with calls of inequality and racism. Just look at the kerfuffle over the Carondelet Park/O'Fallon Park RecPlexes.
Both sections have their merits. One would offer the possibility of redevelopment and community-building. The other tapping into some of the City's most dense areas and active business corridors. Ideally, the latter would be built first and its success/strength would make the construction of the former an easier effort.
The if I can't have it no one can attitude regarding metrolink is the most frustrating aspect of our regional planning.
Southside only line can't get support in the northside.
Northside only line is not supported on the southside.
Shortened North-south alignment is rejected by the county.
Westport line rejected by the city.
Paying for N/S MetroLink isn't going to be super easy, but its far from impossible. Here's a few things to think about:
St. Louis County holds back $30+ million a year from the original Prop M, 1/2% Metro tax. Money is allocated to StL County Highway Dept. Re-allocation to Metro would represent almost $400 million over a decade.
Much of the N/S MetroLink route runs on MoDOT maintained roads (Natural Bridge, for example) while state gas tax is limited to state roads, (transit excluded) some of the on-street work could conceivably be paid for by MoDOT.
N/S MetroLink is the only regional light-rail / streetcar route likely to be competitive for federal funds. Westport is a complete non-starter.
By the end of today there will be a new County Executive. That person is unlikely to be as tied to the Westport line as Dooley is.
State funding from general revenue for transit is a challenge, but not out of the question. We're talking a decade long time-frame. If the STL regional delegation makes it a priority (more commitment like what Sen. Gina Walsh just did) it can be on the table. There will be a different governor who may not have the same disregard for transit funding. Even a republican - some republican governors around the country are pretty pro-light rail.
State / MoDOT will probably come back with another statewide, or possibly district specific, transportation funding proposal in a few years. Much like KC did in August for their streetcar project, there is no reason $200 or $300 million couldn't be earmarked in a new funding package for N/S MetroLink.
Federal money is always uncertain, but the places who do the most for themselves - the most planning, the most local fiscal commitment, are the most competitive. The federal funding picture could be better or worse in a decade, there's no way to know.
The point is funding opportunities will be out there. You have to advance a project as far on your own locally and then grab for the brass rings for funding, state or federal, when they present themselves. If City & County can settle on this route (and remember, they've done that twice already, that's why we have MetroLink) then its possible in the decade+ timeline. Something like running down Jefferson to Chippewa on the southside, plus closer to a full build on the northside into Ferguson, is actually pretty politically attractive right now and improves service to both City & County to the people who want and need better transit the most.
Do you get the sense there's an additional push for this to happen right now? Is there an STL regional delegation ready to come together to promote this?
Stenger has recently said he was going to change St. Louis Co. Highway Department to St. Louis Co. Department of Transportation. He also said he will promote the development of "town centers" around transit stops, said it is crucial to economic development and addressing disparities. He said St. Louis Co. has to take a "multi-modal" approach to transportation.
I wonder how he will operate at E-W Gateway. Seems like he has a much better grasp on the modern needs of St. Louis Co. So glad Stream didn't win, it may also help that this guy is only 42 (much younger than previous county executives).
Speaking of the county highways dept or whatever they will call themselves....they just got a MoDOT area engineer for north county to join the county in the same capacity, he was very bike friendly when he was at MoDOT and played a key part in getting the natural bridge complete streets project going.
Coalition seeks MetroLink north-south route through St. Louis
By Ken Leiser kleiser@post-dispatch.com 314-340-8215
A fledgling group is trying to breathe new life into a more-than-$1 billion idea that would knit together some of the largest pockets of public transit riders with a MetroLink line to run north and south through St. Louis.
Among its members are former Missouri Sen. Joan Bray of University City, St. Louis Alderman Scott Ogilvie, and former East-West Gateway Council of Governments executive Les Sterman. Many of the group’s members were involved in helping defeat the Constitutional Amendment 7 transportation sales tax at the polls this summer. Its main target was highways and bridges.
I hope they plan to modify the ROW alignment through downtown... In fact fully rethinking the route wouldn't be the worst thing in the world considering the changes the city has exerienced in the last 10 years.
I'm still a big proponent of a Tucker to Gravois alignment for a full North-South, or a Jefferson to Washington alignment for a Southside only Plan. With sub surface stations through downtown. Either would be better IMHO than the plan that was presented previously with its convoluted routing along Choteau to 14th, and the split track through the CBD.
Its good to know that the westport expansion has fallen out of favoritism and that a potential N-S line might be in the words. I remember when i lived in Ferguson i would literally walk through Kinloch to get too Hanley Station. I can see this being a big boon not only for Ferguson but for NSTL as well. So would most of the N-S line be street level as in constructed in the center of the road?
I hope they plan to modify the ROW alignment through downtown... In fact fully rethinking the route wouldn't be the worst thing in the world considering the changes the city has exerienced in the last 10 years.
I'm still a big proponent of a Tucker to Gravois alignment for a full North-South, or a Jefferson to Washington alignment for a Southside only Plan. With sub surface stations through downtown. Either would be better IMHO than the plan that was presented previously with its convoluted routing along Choteau to 14th, and the split track through the CBD.
I think they should keep the Desoto portion and join that with the current red/blue line near the Vandeventer rail yards. I don't see the benefit of running it down Chouteau except for getting it somewhat close to Lafayette Square. I think there would be more benefit of having transfers to all lines at Grand, Union Stantion, and Civic Center. You could add a stop at Jefferson to get access to Lafayette Square and Wells Fargo. Plus I think you can save some costs y using existing light rail in the central corridor. Also can merge on to 9th and 10th streets fairly easy under Highway 40
Wonder how this will play out with the EWG long range plan...preserve and maintain the current system was voted as the highest priority so it will get most points when scoring projects in January. in theory any project that's expansion and not maintaining the current system will be shut out of that category making it very hard for a expansion project to score high. (Any project that wants any fed funds has to be on the EWG long range plan) The sausage making process of this would be very messy
Right, but that's why I'm confused about DB's statement that the EWG decided preservation and maintenance of the current system without further expansion. If that's a potential deal breaker for the urban N-S line, why was the Westport line still being moved on?
