I grew up in the Hyde Park neighborhood. I left there in 1958. I don't have to tell you how broken hearted I was when I visited there last month. I haden't been there in a serious manner since I left. Now I'm thinking about buying and rehabbing some buildings in the area. I love HP, but everybody tells me it's too "rough", and start in ONSTL instead.



I just wonder if anthing on the North Side will come back, the way Soulard has?



Michael

The possibilities of a comeback increase when people that care take an interest. Interested?



I want to avoid being overly positive, but, it does seem that there is more interest towards the Northside than usually seen in the past. At least the Near Northside. The Bottle District is reaching investment farther north than we usually see. ONSL has some dedicated people behind it and getting some interest. It seems like it would be a matter of time before that interest & investment moves into other areas like Hyde Park. From where I sit, I really don't know. But, I hope it happens.

Since I live in ONSL I can tell you (with a straight face if you could see me) that there is nothing really rough about the area. You have your typical petty crime like car break-ins, and noise complaints, hell I haven't heard gun shots in years if you don't count New Years. I've heard nothing from Hyde Park to say it's any different except there may be a larger population.



I tell friends who visit that my 'hood is like a dog with all bark and no bite. Sure it looks scary and if you watch the news there are crimes in North City everyday, but if you know the area they are usually a couple miles away from ONSL. That might not seem like a long distance but some of the more well heeled south side neighborhoods are much closer to high crime areas and that hasn't stopped investment.



It's a matter of time before the area is truly discovered, there have been a few starts and sputters. What is going on with the North Market Place and Bottle District development is pretty special in my eyes and could be the beginning of a large scale investment. What it really needs is more retail and a revamped 14th St. pedestrian mall (read: build a road thru it). Crown Candy has held the area together in rougher years, but it needs more company IMO. I've held the opinion that until St. Louisans themselves remove the stigma of the northside from their thoughts, nothing will truly happen.



Check out the Safe City website to see where crimes occur in the City



Safe City Link

I want to live back there half of the time, but am loathe to buy in Soulard, or Benton Park, I'm from North St. Louis. I would love to buy a loft downtown, and look into purchasing and rehabbing houses in ONSL. I just want to have a pretty good idea that I won't loose everything.



Just exactly where is the bottle district?



I agree about the 14th street mall. I had a talk with the man who runs Crown Candy, and he assured me that they will never allow through traffic on the old mall?



Thanks much for the information.



BTW, I live four blocks form the beach and hear gun shots often. The Bay Area's no picnic either.



Later,

Michael

Why wouldn't they put the street back on 14th Street? I assumed it would be done someday.



Michael, there is a thread with tons of info on the Bottle District. Look under the downtown headings. The district will start near 7th & Cole and move northward a few blocks. Also, in that area, there is other development, such as Neighborhood Gardens. I am really hoping that some of this development will help people see the Northside in a new light.

That was just his opinion.



Okay, I know where the Bottle district is. Speaking of Neighborhood Gardens, I also lived at Chochran Gardens, although they razed my building, the 12 story on N. 8th St. When I lived at Cochran, Neighborhood Gardens was beautiful. Their at it though, and it coming along.

I would think that Hyde Park will eventually become a "hot" area, but maybe not until more work is done in ONSL. The good thing about Hyde Park is that property is very affordable, and for the price of a renovated home in Soulard or Benton Park, you could buy a house for yourself as well as others that you could renovate and resell, improving the neighborhood yourself.



I will say that Freeman Bosley doesn't instill much confidence in me though. Maybe a change in leadership would spark improvements in the neighborhood.

Expat wrote:Also, in that area, there is other development, such as Neighborhood Gardens. I am really hoping that some of this development will help people see the Northside in a new light.

^For those, like myself, that traverse North City often, it doesn't take the Bottle District or Neighborhood Gardens to see North City in a new light. While those projects are more akin to downtown, there are lots of new projects completed, underway, and planned in North City.



My point is....people relying on the Neighborhood Gardens and the Bottle District projects, which are really more akin to downtown than North City, or even ONSL, could be a new light for some, however, unless people go off on the streets of North City and see for themselves some of the investments occurring in North City they'll be missing the meat.



Although large chunks of some neighborhoods and parts of North City (ammo plant, other industrial sites, etc.) still need lots of work, infill, and investment, North City is a lot better off than in recent years.

When it comes to rehab, it only takes one stone to start an avalanche.

Michael, I can understand that draw to come back. I hope you will consider it. I have the same draw, even though there is no real reason for me to do so. I guess St. Louis gets under your skin and it is hard to forget it. Something like that. For me it isn't a particular neighborhood, but just the city as a whole. I want to see all corners prosper.

http://www.brown-kortkamp.com/Our_Listi ... 49344.html







Four Blocks south of Natural Bridge Ave. and two blocks east of N. Grand Blvd.



We need pictures of this neighborhood!

I think you might find overcoming the politcal machine is the toughest challenge the northside faces. Career politicians stand to lose their base with new development/gentrification. I am sorry to say I think many of the northside politicians would rather let their area stagnate than worry about opposition.

Cityboy, of course they do! If a bunch of white residents move in then their asses will be voted out! They should be voted out not on for race reasons, but because they are doing little to help the residences of their ward.

Well said, pc. Black on black crime has far more facets than some would care to admit, or even explore. I hate this black/white thing anyway. I want my neighbors to be people who WANT to live in my neighborhood because they care about it, themselves and others. I couldn't care LESS about income, race, and all those utterly pointless demographics. Obviously, there are some who do care...thier self centered dynastic little kingdom would crumble if it were to change.

^



The issue, however, is not necessarily one of race, but of class. If gentrication pervades in North St Louis, these people will face the danger of being priced out of their homes.

Gentrification has both good and bad consequences. And that's why I'm for home ownership. Those who already own homes could be "grandfathered" against rising taxes. Those who build new housing should reserve a percentage to provide for those less fortunate. Will this be a reality? I doubt it.

Some of the most sophisticated people I've known have been poor and black. Some of the most crashing boars and distainful people I've known have been upper middle class, white and very "well educated".

Am I a dreamer? I suppose so. But I look at our city, its fantastic architecture...isn't this actually dreams realized? Adhearing to "reality", status quo and "keeping grounded" keeps us from soaring.

Yet many new residents of greater affluence moving into new or rehabbed properties get tax abatement, fixing their property taxes at previous value for ten years. Meanwhile, existing residents face higher property values and higher taxes, footing more of the bill than their newer, more affluent neighbors.



Clearly, tax abatement should be used more judiciously. There is already talk about scaling back TIF, another tool, but one that benefits developers and commercial property owners more than residential owners. In both cases of tax abatement and TIF, the City misses out on the potential increase in property taxes. With tax abatement, the assessment is fixed. With TIF, the taxes are collected but escrowed for debt financing of the development and related capital improvements.

That's why I said the current homeowners should be 'grandfathered'.

It scares me when I hear that developers get the breaks over homeowners/small business owners, etc. Its a bad sign, IMO, and if you've read Van der Werf's column today, you'll see that change may already be in progress.

^That is an amazing house. $95,000??? That is crazy.

You'll have to fight me for it.

I am sure it is a fixer-upper. I worked for a real estate appraisal company for a few monthes this year and spend a lot of time doing inspections in North City. I was shocked at how many of these very attractive large houses had structural problems. I am no expert in foundations, but many of them had floors with noticable slopes to them. Sometimes things are too good to be true.

In relative terms, $95,000 is a good deal.



In absolute terms, and if you want to use comparable materials in your restoration, $95,000 is too high a price for the house.

You'd be surprised at how many of the CWE homes are in the same boat. They look beautiful, but have been passed down through generations without major repairs being done.