urbanSTL

They have been in session. Although perhaps not the volume of the regular academic year, they have been holding summer classes.

Jeff wrote:

The Central Scrutinizer wrote:
Actually they did cover the real reason it came down. It's just that the real reason differs from your version.

Remember the old downtown master plan? The one that said none of the historic buildings facing the OPO should be torn down?



If you believe that a new parking garage really was mandatory, then there was a perfect parking lot across the street. The Century did NOT need to come down, my friend.



Defend the mayor all you want. I'm still gonna call it how I see it-politics as usual.

I never said a new parking garage was mandatory. Nor did I say the Century needed to come down. Don't know where you got that from.

Webster University's space on Washington seemed to do just fine without a parking garage. And if you'd read anything other the Post, you'd remember that Webster's college paper covered the "parking needs" excuse much better than our compromised daily.



In addition to Webster's exaggerated parking needs, if wanting to talk facts, there are many other contradicting tidbits to the Century's demise:

1.) The Downtown Plan called for no above-grade structured parking facing the OPO, however, the City would selectively ignore that plan component yet still uphold the urban plaza component of the plan as an excuse for not building the garage instead north of the OPO.

2.) The City actually sued the previous owner of the Century to stop its demoliton, yet the City would later sue downtown residents for fighting the Century's demoltion.

3.) The City didn't issue a Request for Proposals for the OPO-Century ("no-bid deal"), yet would later issue an RFP for the remaining Syndicate Trust.

4.) The City convinced the National Trust (which has since learned the hard way to never again challenge a local group like Landmarks) that the Century was necessary to "save" the OPO, yet the OPO wasn't some deteriorated shell of a building, but rather a building more extensively renovated just 20 years prior, really needing only a remodeling and new tenant finishes.

5.) In additon to Webster's and even the Courts' needs, parking was also claimed as dire for the OPO's surrounding area, yet a fully rehabbed Paul Brown, Roberts Lofts and a fully leased OPO have been achieved without it.

6.) OPO was meant to spur economic development, yet every tenant in the remodeled OPO was already downtown (courts, Webster, library, Business Journal) or headed by a mayoral donor (Pasta House).



I'm a Southwest City Democrat and donated to Slay's first mayoral campaign (I just got another invitation to a Forest Park fundraiser) and worked the polls for him in 2001. I also thought Slay, even after the Century, was easily the better candidate than Irene Smith (duh), when it came time for his second term in 2005. Still, I think you'd have to be the most gullible "Frankie the Saint" fan to think the Century wasn't a scandalous insiders' deal for Holden and Slay donors, that or you only believe what you read in the Post.

southslider wrote:Webster University's space on Washington seemed to do just fine without a parking garage. And if you'd read anything other the Post, you'd remember that Webster's college paper covered the "parking needs" excuse much better than our compromised daily.

Unlike you, I don't have time to read every college "newspaper" that comes out.

southslider wrote:
In addition to Webster's exaggerated parking needs, if wanting to talk facts, there are many other contradicting tidbits to the Century's demise:

1.) The Downtown Plan called for no above-grade structured parking facing the OPO, however, the City would selectively ignore that plan component yet still uphold the urban plaza component of the plan as an excuse for not building the garage instead north of the OPO.

2.) The City actually sued the previous owner of the Century to stop its demoliton, yet the City would later sue downtown residents for fighting the Century's demoltion.

3.) The City didn't issue a Request for Proposals for the OPO-Century ("no-bid deal"), yet would later issue an RFP for the remaining Syndicate Trust.

4.) The City convinced the National Trust (which has since learned the hard way to never again challenge a local group like Landmarks) that the Century was necessary to "save" the OPO, yet the OPO wasn't some deteriorated shell of a building, but rather a building more extensively renovated just 20 years prior, really needing only a remodeling and new tenant finishes.

5.) In additon to Webster's and even the Courts' needs, parking was also claimed as dire for the OPO's surrounding area, yet a fully rehabbed Paul Brown, Roberts Lofts and a fully leased OPO have been achieved without it.

6.) OPO was meant to spur economic development, yet every tenant in the remodeled OPO was already downtown (courts, Webster, library, Business Journal) or headed by a mayoral donor (Pasta House).



I'm a Southwest City Democrat and donated to Slay's first mayoral campaign (I just got another invitation to a Forest Park fundraiser) and worked the polls for him in 2001. I also thought Slay, even after the Century, was easily the better candidate than Irene Smith (duh), when it came time for his second term in 2005. Still, I think you'd have to be the most gullible "Frankie the Saint" fan to think the Century wasn't a scandalous insiders' deal for Holden and Slay donors, that or you only believe what you read in the Post.

Where does the grassy knoll fit in?

The Central Scrutinizer wrote:Where does the grassy knoll fit in?

Ah, the straw man. The last refuge of a defeated logic.

steve wrote:

The Central Scrutinizer wrote:Where does the grassy knoll fit in?

Ah, the straw man. The last refuge of a defeated logic.

Yeah, challenging southslider to a factual debate is like challeging a cheetah to a race. Pointless.



You can't beat 'em, he just knows too much stuff!

The Central Scrutinizer wrote: Unlike you, I don't have time to read every college "newspaper" that comes out.

Can't believe I missed the ad hominem the first time around.

steve wrote:

The Central Scrutinizer wrote:Where does the grassy knoll fit in?

Ah, the straw man. The last refuge of a defeated logic.

Correction: A way of pointing out a non-existant conspiracy.

True, but a method chosen most often by the intellectually lazy. And fascists. Goebbels loved 'em.

Central Scrutunizer seems to fit the mold of intellectually lazy fairly well.

I expected more out of an admin.

^^Oh give him a break guys, I'd hardly call that name calling. Let's just talk about he garage because this is about to spin out of control, I think we can all see that.

MattnSTL wrote:Central Scrutunizer seems to fit the mold of intellectually lazy fairly well.

Completely unacceptable coming from a moderator.

There are times when we have to act outside of our official titles because we can't be expected to not express our opinions once in a while.



And my title may say admin, but something was done wrong when switching me because I can't get to the admin controls, so I can't ban or suspend anyone. There is a mountain of spam threads that have been moved so that we can still get to the offending IP's. I'll delete this tangent after a couple of hours.

Thanks to the admins and mods for the work they do. And I am glad to hear their opinions, too. They do a great job.

This has taken an interesting turn.



I wanted to say that I walked by the Garage Majal site last night, and really, the entire area would be so much better off with an intact Century awaiting rehab. There is so much going on in the area, and you can feel it's on the verge of being something great (particularly when the Arcade comes back online). And I'm sure the street level retail in the garage will help, but I just wish we would quit this city-wide epidemic of needing parking for everything.



I was having dinner at Wasabi before the game (we walked from my cousins loft at 17th and Locust), and the GreenSheet guy came up and asked if we wanted to take the shuttle. I told him we were planning on walking, and he said the shuttle was available if we needed. Every shuttle that left, was FULL of people. This is good for the Wash Ave area, since that means it's still getting residual Cardinal business, but why are people so afraid of walking?



I was with my near-60 year old mother, and we had nice walk to the stadium. Plus, I paid $1.25 to park (meter).

well, don't have the knowledge on this to take a side but I have come across some stuff in my thesis research that might be of some value here. I don't know the enrollment of Webster's previous downtown location but the OPO one is supposed to have 1,200 in this coming semester and that number is expected to increase to maybe 1,700 or 1,800 by 2007 or 2008. They had something like 3 faculty at old location and expect to have 30 at this new one. The old location had about 500 students. This article is a bit old (2003) and says "it will open in 2005" which if I remember correctly it actually ended up opening maybe March 2006? so anyone more knowledgeable feel free to indicate if anything stated in the article has changed.





business journal article

^That's an interesting point. It really is in central location, practically equidistant from all major points of interest downtown.



I wonder how this garage, once fully operational, will affect auto traffic. The streets there are (wonderfully) narrow, with short blocks. Should be interesting to see.

MattnSTL wrote:Central Scrutunizer seems to fit the mold of intellectually lazy fairly well.

You got the intellectual part right. Thanks!

As much as I hate the fact that it's being built, I have to admit that it's looking pretty good...for a garage, at least. It would be nice if the other downtown garages were as thoughtfully designed.

Anyone have recent Photos?