urbanSTL

MattonArsenal wrote:

and while I'm at it I might as well settle my own personal pet peeve amd slaughter those responsible for Twain's "iron triangle ....

That's Serra's Twain, which looks like an iron triangle.



My dad pulled out old home movies last year and one was of the sculpture's commemeration ceremony, with all of those responsible milling about.



It is also interesting to see views of downtown in the mid-1980s.

You need to get those up on YouTube!

^That's what I was thinking. Would be interesting to see.

Call me naive, a newby, an uneducated youngster.... but I hear a lot about the Serra Sculpture downtown.... But I don't know what you are referring to.... Can someone end my pain and post a picture of this thing. I apologize for posting on this strain

Call me naive, a newby, an uneducated youngster.... but I hear a lot about the Serra Sculpture downtown.... But I don't know what you are referring to.... Can someone end my pain and post a picture of this thing. I apologize for posting on this strain

What a total waste of a full city block.



I am not sure what was there before the 'sculpture' but it had to be 100 times better than that piece of crap.



I say pull up this eyesore that was passed off as 'ART' and use the steel pieces to help build the 'LID' over highway 70.



The only interesting tidbit about the sculpture was the occassional sighting of sexual activity from high above windows of office buildings that were able to see down in the center of the 'sculpture'

hey I'm still accepting members to my junta.....

A while back they were considering renameing the serra sculpture to "worlds ugliest sculpture ever, EVER!" or "Worlds biggest waste of prime RE ever, EVER!" Anyone know the status of this is?

I think part of why it sucks isn't so much the sculpture istelf, but its surroundings and the way the it interacts with them. I don't know why, but for some reason the cheap lawn-grass and that meager tree (the kind you'd see in a suburban lawn and the way it's just kind of growing out of the ground without any regard to urban presentation) just exaggerate how out of place this sculpture is. Add to that its location, what should be prominent location for downtown real estate or at least to provide a magnificent view of the arch, both of which it obstructs. I could see something like this getting much less criticism if it were located in some concrete plaza, or at least somewhere that is inviting to people to clamor around. If it had something in the center of it like a fountain or if it had ground lights shining up at it at night. It is still not particularly interesting on its own, but where it is it becomes an atrocity.

I am not sure what was there before the 'sculpture' but it had to be 100 times better than that piece of crap.

The Great White Fathers dictated that "green space" was the Next Big Thing in redeveloping downtowns. Hence the much-used and much-loved "green space" we call the Gateway Mall, which includes the beloved Serra Sculpture.



Other examples of this succesful implementation of visionary urban planning include the US Bank Plaza where the Ambassador once stood and the placement of the Garage Mahal in lieu of a decrepit old building, instead of putting garage space on the "green space" 90 degrees around the Old Post Office to the north.

The Great White Fathers dictated that "green space" was the Next Big Thing in redeveloping downtowns. Hence the much-used and much-loved "green space" we call the Gateway Mall, which includes the beloved Serra Sculpture.

To be fair, the idea/l of the Gateway Mall predates the current generaration of GWFs and -- at one time, at least -- was a relatively popular rallying cry. And looking at a satmap it seems as if the GWGreatgrandfathers laid out downtown with a long EW green spine. (Like Boston?)



OTOH, the US Bank plaza is attractive only to adventuresome skateboarders.

To be fair, the idea/l of the Gateway Mall predates the current generaration of GWFs and -- at one time, at least -- was a relatively popular rallying cry.

Listening to our Who CDs today, are we, PE? (Why don't you all just f-f-f-ade away?)



First of all, those were the Great White Fathers of about 1984, not to be confused with the Great White Fathers, One Great Black Father and One Or Two Hot White Mamas of today.



More to the point, however, the idea/l was a whole mall from OCH to the temple of Halicarnassus, but "economic considerations" turned it into a "half-mall" (and replaced three highly occupied historic buildings with one sometimes-occupied pseudo-modern POS). And then they only built one-third of the half (so I guess it's now a sixth-mall, or a .167 mall in Ballpark Village parlance) and left the two blocks in question vacant save for the ill-marked Twain.



Speaking of Boston, didn't they have the "vision" to bury the monstrous interstate that cut off downtown from the harbor?

I think PE is confusing the idea/l WEST of Tucker for a grand civic space/plaza that certainly was a concept of now deceased generations, linked to the City Beautiful movement even before Urban Removal planner Bartholomew called for demolishing one-third of St. Louis. OTOH, the "Mall" idea/l EAST of Tucker very much belongs to the same generations that fueled the proliferation of suburban malls.

Speaking of Boston, didn't they have the "vision" to bury the monstrous interstate that cut off downtown from the harbor?

They did, though I missed a lot of the construction by moving here in the early 90s. Maybe I'm the harbinger of covered roadways?



And now that you mention it, most of my Gateway Mall "history" came from my ex-boss, who was apparently something of a public figure in 1984.

bonwich wrote:Speaking of Boston, didn't they have the "vision" to bury the monstrous interstate that cut off downtown from the harbor?

The "vision"...and Ted Kennedy's penchant for pork.



BTW, I must say I am really impressed with the tunnels...it is so much more interesting sitting in traffic at a dead stop, for hours on end, when one is in a leaky tunnel, half-supported by scaffolding, the roof of which could seemingly come crashing down on top of you at any given moment...

stlmike wrote:I think part of why it sucks isn't so much the sculpture istelf, but its surroundings and the way the it interacts with them. I don't know why, but for some reason the cheap lawn-grass and that meager tree (the kind you'd see in a suburban lawn and the way it's just kind of growing out of the ground without any regard to urban presentation) just exaggerate how out of place this sculpture is. Add to that its location, what should be prominent location for downtown real estate or at least to provide a magnificent view of the arch, both of which it obstructs. I could see something like this getting much less criticism if it were located in some concrete plaza, or at least somewhere that is inviting to people to clamor around. If it had something in the center of it like a fountain or if it had ground lights shining up at it at night. It is still not particularly interesting on its own, but where it is it becomes an atrocity.

I pretty much agree with this. I am a big fan of Serra's work, but what I have always said about this sculpture is that it is too small. It is overwhelmed by it's surroundings. So it should have either been made much bigger, or as you suggest, put in a smaller space.

and Ted Kennedy's penchant for pork

Nope. That was Tip O'Neill's baby.

The garage was the location of a flurry of activity on Friday.



It should be an outstanding carsoleum and pigeon roost.

How soon until it is done?



How far along is the first floor retail space?

Ah, I love artists deceptions. Such a serene scene, wonder what's behind those pretty windows on the upper floors, condos??



Where is the rendering of the pedestrians dodging the cars flying out of the garage at 5 pm? Now that'd be a winner.

The tendency of renderings and several places downtown with signage flush against the building that faces out, instead of perpendicular so pedestrians and passing cars can see it really bothers me. This isn't a strip-mall with a giant parking lot between the store and the street. Visitors won't find these places unless they already know they're there.

Honestly I like signage like that and think we need more of it. Both is good. It works for the people across the street.