urbanSTL

Well sadly, ignoring the realities of the situation seems to be a MODOT specality. Sure it might be the fault of @-hole drivers for cutting in at the last minute, but to be fair MODOT must design looking at the way people really do drive, not how MODOT hopes they will drive. MODOT should realise the situation. Sure the 170 flyovers might help ease congestion and keep the exits from backing up on 40 west of Brentwood. But at the same time, my concern is that the plan trades one backup (people trying to get on 170 and off at brentwood) for another (people tyring to get on 40 from Brentwood, 170, and Hanley). The situation at 270 and 40 is a problem, a problem that looks far to similar to whats being proposed. Whats the solution? I don't know. Perhaps extending the 4 lane section farther and giving people more time to merge might help, but then again other drivers will always be foolish.

As for the walls, i can understand why people whose homes back the highway would want them built. But at the same time, MODOT is taking a beautiful strech of highway surounded by lush greenery and some great WPA style highway construction and ruining it. Sadly, the fun solution would be building the walls farther back and giving space to plant trees between the roadway and walls, but I doubt MODOT even noticed what they are destorying.



My opinions of MODOT stem from the contact I had with the engeniers in charge of the proposed widening of Clayton Rd. between Baxter and Clarkson. In particular, the choice not to make the road 4 lanes and instead add a constant center turn lane. Their design made it clear that MODOT had not done the work nessasary to understand the problem. They saw the pepople turing off of a backed up clayton rd at rush hour and thought that was why it backed up. My family tried to explain that these turners were cutting through subdivison to go around the light at Khers Mill and that the problem was the light and the lack of lanes, not a need to make it easier to turn into the surounding sub-divisons. Instead we got hostile and arrogent responses from the engeniers telling us that we were completly wrong and didn't know what we say happening every day. Thats why I don't really like MODOT.

JMedwick wrote:

Whats the solution? I don't know. Perhaps extending the 4 lane section farther and giving people more time to merge might help, but then again other drivers will always be foolish.

Well, thanks for at least understanding how hard it is to design with human behavior in mind.



Personally, I wouldn't have expanded the capacity to four lanes west of 170. But if there are to be added lanes, losing them at the major future combined interchange of Brentwood/170/Hanley seems to make the most sense of any other optional point along the New I-64.



MODOT is already going to rip Richmond Heights apart for the reconfigured exits themselves and the exit-only lanes running in-between the redesigned exits. Many of these exits do look overdesigned, and in the case of Bellevue, completely unnecessary. On top of this overdesign, if you were to continue the added through lanes further east to the existing four-lane capacity along Forest Park, you would only take out even more of Richmond Heights and its urban housing stock currently abutting the presently narrow right-of-way between Hanley and the City Limits.

I will miss the old highway. It reminds me of Merritt Parkway in Connecticut. Very cool. But, no doubt there is a need for modernizing. I have to ask, how will the trailer park be effected by the rework?

I have a general question. Here in New Jersey, NJDOT is using a system called Hyperbuild to help speed up the route 18 construction. To my understanding Hyperbuild is a system where the DOT and contractors negotiate building times for different aspects of the project. For example in the route 18 construction they estimated that to do all the nessasary work on one interchange would take 27 hours. Then, the contractor has 27 total hours to complete that task. IF the contractor comes in at less than 27 hours, the firm recives bonuses. If the firm takes more than 27 hours, it must pay NJDOT money for taking to long. Here in New Jersey, this system is viewed by the public as a real positive and a big help in getting some recent projects done signifigantly faster.

Does anyone know if MODOT has in the past or is considering using a Hyperbuild system? If not, why not, as especialy for highway 40, this might be a great way to help speed up construction. Also would this method be useful for future Metro construction?

I know MoDot has used programs like that, but I don't know how extensively.

Of course the MODOT engineers are aware of the following, as are probably some of the posters here, but it has always stuck in my mind during my travels to various cities.



This is an excerpt from "Urban Pattern" by Gallion and Eisner:

The effect of weaving measurable reduces the efficiency of the street. Surveys have shown that weaving reduces the capacity of the second lane of traffic to 75 percent of the single lane, the capacity of the third lane is 56 percent of the single lane, and that of a fourth lane is only 26 percent of the single lane.

The footnote attributes this to "Moving People in the Modern City", a 1944 study by the American Transit Association. With higher traffic speeds today, these figures would likely be even lower.

Missouri pledges to avoid total closure of Hwy. 40

By Shane Graber

ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH

Wednesday, Feb. 01 2006



A 12-mile span of Highway 40 slated for reconstruction won't shut down all at

once, but stretches of it still might close during the work.



Pete Rahn, director of the Missouri Department of Transportation, said Tuesday

that the two teams competing for the project to rebuild Highway 40 are not

considering the option of closing the whole road from Interstate 270 to

Kingshighway.



"That doesn't mean there will be no closes of any kind," Rahn said.



MoDOT won't know what kind of closures to expect until it reviews the

construction plans submitted by the two teams, Rahn said.



For now, the department remains short on details. Rahn guaranteed that the

highway won't completely close for four years, but it won't escape at least

some closures. Anything in between those extremes is a possibility, he said.



>>> Read More

I think full closure was more of an option to avoid construction traffic spilling onto highways outside the Spoede-to-Sarah construction zone, more so than a means to speed up construction. But no matter what, parts of the highway are going to have to be completely closed for periods of reconstruction.



That's because this highway is not just a simple repaving, changed exits or widening kind of project. Rather, the entire elevation of the highway will change, with a completely new road bed, and entirely different exit configurations as well. The best example is presently 40 travels beneath Hanley, while New I-64 will travel over Hanley. Now, with such dramatic changes, and there are many examples, can you tell me how you're supposed to keep one or two lanes of traffic open in each direction throughout such an extensive project? And even if you could, don't you think a reduction from three lanes to even still two lanes would cause gridlock?

Would it be feasible to privatize 64/40 and lease toll rights to that company in exchange for an up front lump sum payment? Seems Indiana is doing this and it has been quite common in europe for a while. (Southslider I'm sure your knowledge would be esically good here)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060201/ap_ ... s_for_rent

^

Because it's interstate all the way to Dardenne Prarie. That's where a big sign says 'END 64'.



So it's not highway 40, it's 64/40. We had a big discussion on this a while back, anybody got the link?

What locals call "highway 40" now has interstate status east of Missouri Route K in St. Charles County.



When tolling an existing Interstate, one way is through the Federal Highway Administration's Interstate System Reconstruction & Rehabilitation Toll Pilot Program. The pilot program allows tolling on up to 3 existing Interstate facilities (highway, bridge, or tunnel) to fund needed reconstruction or rehabilitation on Interstate highway corridors that could not otherwise be adequately maintained or functionally improved. Each of the 3 facilities must be in a different State.



Of course, MoDOT isn't looking to have New I-64 become a tolling reconstruction pilot. But if MoDOT is saying their dire financial situation calls for tolling the new Mississippi River Bridge, then it does seem hypocritical for MoDOT not to consider tolling what will be their largest highway project-- New I-64.

I can't help but think that the hype and dooms day predictions are over done and that a workable solution will be found to keep traffic moving. People will over react (like move from one neighborhood to another in attempt to escape the madness) but a few years from now this will be nothing but a bad memory and folks will be back on a new 64/40 waiting for the next big infrastructure project that will inconvenience their lives.

I still hate CBC for leaving their old location (I believe that's Richmond Heights). Now, it's just another faceless private school sitting on an outer road in some vacant area of west county. Before it was one of the few schools with some real personality. Should I have a son, I would have been choosing between CBC or SLUH if we would have gone private. Now, SLUH is all I would consider.



Sorry to tangent, but I just feel that they should have never moved. The 64/40 project is being built up like if you live in T&C you will never be able to find the city of St. Louis. Way to freak everybody out, MoDOT.

Now, SLUH is all I would consider

As it should have been, anyway.

trent wrote:Now, SLUH is all I would consider.

I looked at SLUH. I was over qualified to get in, but I just really didn't like anything about the school. Don't think I would have fit in. Glad they are committed to the city though. Never even considered CBC. I agree, CBC moving out there hurt it's image in my mind. But I digress also.

If you build it, they will come. This region will never build its way out of congestion no matter how hard MoDOT tries. It's pretty simple, added capacity = more demand.



New Highway 40 could attract more trucks

By Shane Graber

ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH

02/08/2006



The idea of a new, smooth-sailing, wide open Highway 40 gives the St. Louis commuter that warm-type feeling, the kind that the 9-to-5er who gets to work seven minutes early on Monday can really appreciate.



But before you get ready to hop on the Easytime Expressway, wait. There might be a catch. Compact car owner, meet Mack. And Peterbilt. And a few of their closest friends.



Traffic experts say a rebuilt and less crowded Highway 40 (Interstate 64) actually will lure more - and maybe bigger - commercial trucks to the interstate. No one knows how many will hit the highway once it is rebuilt by 2010. But they'll be there.



Link to Rest of Story

brickandmortar wrote:If you build it, they will come. This region will never build its way out of congestion no matter how hard MoDOT tries. It's pretty simple, added capacity = more demand.



New Highway 40 could attract more trucks

By Shane Graber

ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH

02/08/2006



The idea of a new, smooth-sailing, wide open Highway 40 gives the St. Louis commuter that warm-type feeling, the kind that the 9-to-5er who gets to work seven minutes early on Monday can really appreciate.



But before you get ready to hop on the Easytime Expressway, wait. There might be a catch. Compact car owner, meet Mack. And Peterbilt. And a few of their closest friends.



Traffic experts say a rebuilt and less crowded Highway 40 (Interstate 64) actually will lure more - and maybe bigger - commercial trucks to the interstate. No one knows how many will hit the highway once it is rebuilt by 2010. But they'll be there.



Link to Rest of Story

That would be awesome. All the West County folks thinking their commutes are gonna be cut down with less traffic when the new 64 opens, only to find out that there is more traffic because of trucks... Makes me happy I go against traffic by living in the city.

trent wrote:That would be awesome. All the West County folks thinking their commutes are gonna be cut down with less traffic when the new 64 opens, only to find out that there is more traffic because of trucks... Makes me happy I go against traffic by living in the city.

Well, in my extensive experience of driving Hwy40, it has always seemed that the reverse commute is actually the worst... at least during the evening rush. The only safe time to drive Hwy40 while there is daylight seems to be a short window roughly from 10am-2pm. Outside that window of time, there seems to be no guarentees. The now can't be replaced soon enough Brentwood/I-170/Hanley monstrosity is responsible for the congestion in both directions.

My reverse commute is on 44, I have zero traffic issues.

Mill204 wrote:Well, in my extensive experience of driving Hwy40, it has always seemed that the reverse commute is actually the worst... at least during the evening rush. The only safe time to drive Hwy40 while there is daylight seems to be a short window roughly from 10am-2pm. Outside that window of time, there seems to be no guarentees. The now can't be replaced soon enough Brentwood/I-170/Hanley monstrosity is responsible for the congestion in both directions.

It's true, the "reverse" commute on 64/40 is actually worse than the "normal" commute. Having lived in the CWE commuting out to Frontenac, the morning westbound backup between Kingshighway and 170 was always a nightmare.