urbanSTL

Yes the designs look nice, but no one is gonna convince me that am not really in favor of this project. All those sound walls, 40 is just gonna look ugly.

I love how they removed all the unsightly street lights, traffic lights, overhead wires, oil stains, garbage, and traffic jams from that first picture. Such are artist renderings, I suppose -- but who are they fooling? It looks like the start of a demolition derby! What is to prevent all those cars from smashing into each other?

I hate that first rendering. That's like the intersections they've done at Manchester and 270 and Olive and 270 (I think). Those are just a mess, and don't really make much sense. I'd rather see just traditional exit/on ramps.

The Manchester, I-270 exit is not that type of exit. The one at Olive and I-270 is a single point intersection and has helped traffic a lot. Traffic used to be a mess there all day long, now traffic runs through a lot more smoothly. It used to have two sets of traffic lights at the intersection, now there is just the single set of lights and that does make a big diffrence.

I have to agree, the Single Point Interchanges are a lot better than the standard interchanges and they require less land. For example the interchange at Kingshighway will be much smaller and some land will be returned from the interstate to Forest Park.

Yikes! That intersection looks scary as hell! But, I guess everything new is scary at first. I'm sure we'll all get used to it. I gotta admit, the new Olive/270 interchange does seem to work pretty well. And it definately takes up less room.



I really, really hate sound walls. I hope there won't be too many of those. The detailing looks nice though. I hope that stuff doesn't get cut when the bills start coming in.



Thanks for posting, Cornbread.

Single points work best at interchanges with a high volume of traffic. Otherwise they are just a waste of money when another interchange design could work. Unfortunely MoDOT is Single Point interchange happy and this tends to run up the costs of projects since the bridges need to be much wider.



On this project, Kingshighway, Lindbergh and Hanley would be good locations for these interchanges, but Hampton and Big Bend could use a different design and traffic would still move through with no problem.

I'd have to agree that Hampton and Big Bend have less volume than Kingshighway, Hanley or Lindbergh. But I think the single-point interchanges are still used at both Hampton and Big Bend more so to squeeze an intersection into these tight spots.



Sure, single-point interchanges do require wider bridges, but their ramps stay closer to the highway, minimizing the width of the right-of-way. With single-point interchanges, a special feature is not only fewer signals but also narrow exit ramps, and that's narrow in terms of right-of-way or proximity to the highway, not lane width.



The added feature of narrower ramps is needed for Hampton, where Oakland Avenue to the south and Clayton/Wells Drives to the north are very close to I-64. Similarly, Big Bend is in a dense, urban area. But here, it is the wasteful weaving of Bellevue's unnecessary new half-diamond ramps that ultimately requires a single-point interchange.

While i would agree that the biggest needs for single point interchanges are at Lindbergh, Hanley, and Kingshighway, i still think the interchange at hampton could use one, as that interstection can mover pretty slow at rush hour or when the Muny gets out. As for Big Bend, i would guess they are tyring to improve ther intersection so that you can enter and exit the highway from both directions. By doing so, Big Bend might be improved enough to take some of the pressure off of an overused Hanley interchange, something the area could desperatly use.

There are also two smaller single point exchanges at 141 & Big Bend and 141 & Manchester. I used to commute along 141 and the new exchanges cut my drive time significantly.



But making left turns with cars whizzing by the opposite direction is a bit unnerving when the weather is bad and you can't see the road stripes.

There is also one out in O'Fallon, MO. It's at I-70 and TR Hughes Blvd. Many locals hate it, but I believe that's because there is no need for reduced traffic. You would be lucky to see more than three cars on the overpass at a time. I also think many people hate these because it is a new thing, and they aren't sure what to do. The guy who designed it is a family friend, and we know he has taken a bit of critism for it, but I really don't blame them. It's a waste of money for a massive concrete block in an area that doesn't need it.



I agree with James, it is very frightening the first time, but I am just surprised there are hardly ever any accidents on them.



All in all, I think these single-point interchanges are the best choice for busy urban areas, but they should not be built in areas where traffic volume is not an issue.

Highway 40 project gets final OK

By Elisa Crouch

POST-DISPATCH

10/14/2005



The Missouri Highway Commission provided the final nod today necessary to rebuild Highway 40 ? the largest interstate rehabilitating project the state has ever undertaken.



The unanimous vote was all the Missouri Department of Transportation needed to move forward with rebuilding 12 miles of Highway 40 (Interstate 64), from Sarah Street in St. Louis to Spoede Road in west St. Louis County. A contractor should be selected next September so construction can start in early 2007.



The $535 million effort is to be done by October 2010, according to the department. The work will be done ?unreasonably fast,? said Dave Nichols, the department?s director of program delivery. The department is accelerating the work by allowing one contract team to do the design and construction in parallel, rather than in succession, trimming the construction time by as many as nine years.



Source

Sigh... my dislike for this project grows daily. Its gonna take a great looking highway and in 5-10 years St. Louis will have another bland concrete strip. So sad... BTW, anyone else wonder if MODOT isn't foolishy creating another bottle neck at I-170 and I-64 since this is where 40 will drop back down to 3 lanes. I see a similar problem to the stop and go that already exists at Ballas, 270 and 40. Just what that area needs, another reason for traffic to stop. And MODOT wonders why everyone hates it...

The outer righthand lanes that are added through lanes out to Spoede will become exit-only lanes east of McKnight for the combined Brentwood/I-170/Hanley interchange. Losing lanes as exit-only lanes for a major combined interchange should ease the merger down to three through-lanes east of 170 from the four through-lanes west of 170.



Though only three through-lanes continue east of 170, additional exit-only lanes will be added between exits. So, though you lose the added through lanes just west of 170, lanes rejoin east of Hanley from the combined Brentwood/I-170/Hanley interchange but become exit-only lanes for Big Bend, providing significant distance to merge.



Loss of lanes via exit-only lanes will avoid potential merger backups, since much of the traffic traveling in the far right lanes on any highway has just got on the highway or is soon getting off. Through traffic will likely travel more so in the middle lanes, with passing traffic obviously in left lanes.

After reading the article below, I found myself hoping that if they did close down 40 they would do it after completing Forest Park Parkway. Wishful thinking I guess. Somehow I doubt that they would ever really shut down the entire highway. That's pretty drastic.







Part of Highway 40 may be closed

By Shane Graber

ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH

Thursday, Oct. 27 2005



ST. LOUIS



Missouri officials are considering closing a section of Highway 40 (Interstate 64) - the area's most heavily used east-west corridor - when reconstruction of the highway begins early next year.



Missouri Department of Transportation officials acknowledged on Thursday night for the first time that a complete shutdown between Kingshighway and Interstate 270 is a possibility. The department is gauging the public's opinions in a survey handed out at a public meeting Thursday night and in a week-long telephone survey that ends today.



The final question on the survey asks residents to rate whether they would support the project if it could be "shortened by 25 percent by closing I-64 completely between I-270 and Kingshighway."



"It's not out of the question, but I don't know if it's feasible or not," said Ed Hassinger, the district engineer for the St. Louis region. "If we could close the road and build it, and it be significantly faster and cost less money, we want to know if that's something the public tolerates."



MoDOT will know whether it will close the corridor by this time next year, once the state selects a design team for the project, Hassinger said.



The project is currently expected to be completed by Oct. 1, 2010, without a closure.



One speaker at the Thursday meeting, Gary Collins, hopes it stays open. A construction equipment deliveryman from St. Louis who uses Highway 40 every day, Collins, 50, said closing the road would make his family's life a lot tougher.



"It would be an awful inconvenience," he said. "If they would just keep one lane open in each direction, I really feel like it would help."



Collins would have to take backroads, but Forest Park Parkway is already closed indefinitely because of MetroLink construction. Commuters likely would have to use Interstates 55 or 44 as east-west options, Hassinger said.



"I know they could get it done faster if they close it," Collins said. "But it would be an awful burden."



The transportation department has closed entire corridors before, said MoDOT spokeswoman Linda Wilson. In May and June of 2004, the department shut down Lemay Ferry Road at Interstate 255 for 62 days, she said. Had the state kept it open, the project - a new bridge over I-255 - would have taken two years, she said.



If the state does close the section of Highway 40, officials aren't sure for how long, Wilson said. "But if you can close it, we can build it faster," she said.



The Highway 40 project, expected to cost $535 million, will rebuild 12 miles of highway, interchanges and bridges from west of Spoede Road to Sarah Street, and on Interstate 170 from Brentwood Boulevard to Eager Road.



An additional lane in each direction will be added between Spoede and Interstate 170.



It's the largest highway construction undertaking in MoDOT's history. About 150,000 vehicles use this stretch of interstate every day.

I like how the media hypes a certain part of the story. One of the possible reconstruction scenarios is to shut down I-64 during reconstruction although that is very unlikely(think hospitals). Most likely there will be a lane open in each direction. Commuters will find alternate routes like Manchester or Ladue/Forest Parkway.

Alternative routes



St. Charles Rock Rd./MLK

Page

Midland from Lindbergh to Olive

Olive to Skinker and Delmar

Delmar (very slow through Loop) east of Skinker

Metrolink

Ladue Rd and somehow to Wydown to Skinker

Clayton Rd. (dead ends in Dogtown)

Manchester

Gravois

Tesson Ferry



Routes from the northside are easier than those from the south, and people traveling from Chesterfield and Wildwood are going to have the worst commute to the City but hey...congestion is good! While we are at it let's reduce Hwys I-70 and I-44. Then, we will definitely, as a whole region, open up to a major Metrolink expansion.

Forest Park Parkway is scheduled to fully reopen in early 2006, and Cross-County MetroLink to begin service in late 2006.



If 40 were closed, it wouldn't be until early 2007, about a year later than Forest Park Parkway and a half-year after Cross-County MetroLink.



And since we're in late 2005, we're now only talking less than a half-year for the return of the Parkway and less than a year to the opening of an expanded MetroLink.



So then, if you live and work east of I-170, you'll be thankful, but if you live and work on different sides, either direction, you may have bigger traffic headaches in your future.

Did anyone else noticew the article stated that the FP PKWY was closed "indefinitely" as if it was still going to be closed? I read that and I was like, no it opens next year. It seems like they were trying to make people believe that there would be no readily available east-west corridor.





Post sucks.

Collins would have to take backroads, but Forest Park Parkway is already closed indefinitely because of MetroLink construction.

Here is what i mean. I think many people would agree that the Brentwood, 170, Hanley section of 40 is horrible, one of the worst around and in desperate need of reconstruction. Yet I fail, after looking at the website, to understand is how having the extra lanes end right after Hanley will help this problem. A great exapmle is the existing intersection heading east bound on 40 from 270 and Ballas. That area is always stop and go as the combined traffic of 270 and Ballas attempts to merge down too three lanes at Spoede Rd. I predict a future outcome of the same problem at the 170, Hanley, Brentwood interchanges, since no matter how you slice it the traffic must merge down too 3 lanes. You can tell me all you want about how there will be seperate exit only lanes but hell, try and get off at Spoede. Simply because there is an exit lane means nothing. Drivers from Ballas and 270 sit in the exit lane and back it up, waiting untill the last minute to get over. The same thing will happen here and sadly the problem of a bottle neck at 170, Hanley, and Brentwood may be little changed.





Even more gauling: the names MODOT uses for the project segments. Greenway from Spoede through McKnight my eye... they are gonna take all that green and keep it so very green by BUILDING HUGE FREAKING CEMENT WALLS!!!! I HATE MODOT! THEY ARE A BUNCH OF ARROGENT FOOLS!

The current merger at Spoede causes eastbound backups because significant volume is not exiting a minor road such as Spoede. With the new I-64, the merger will be moved east to where more significant volume exits, the combined interchange of Brentwood/I-170/Hanley.



So the better comparison is how westbound 40 traffic now works such that there are exit lanes to I-270 after Spoede. Indeed post new I-64, this configuration will be the same. But since I-270 is a significant exit for 40 traffic, westbound traffic here never backs up due to merging onto only three through-lanes to continue on 40 west of I-270.



Granted, in the evenings, traffic does back up then west of I-270 approaching Mason, but that's due to peak evening I-270 traffic merging onto westbound 40. You might then say, won't this West County situation be then in the future like I-170 trying to merge onto the New I-64 eastbound, needing to merge before Big Bend. But significant volumes are bound for Eager, Hanley and Big Bend from southbound I-170 that it should not backup traffic regularly.



Will there be congestion on the New I-64? Of course, but building highways for when there are multiple games downtown occuring near rush hour is as foolish as building retail parking lots to fully accommodate shoppers the day after Thanksgiving. But the residual congestion caused by the antiquated design of old highway 40 (short exit ramps, exits close together, poor sight distances on curves and grade changes) should virtually disappear.

I would want the walls if that highway were creeping towards my back yard. Maryland has a rule that whenever it widens a highway, they are required to build a wall. So, if you chose to live on a wall less highway, that is on you. But, if the state decides to make it worse, that is on them.



And with landscaping, I find the walls rather good looking at times. It gives a well-tended, affluent appearance. Of course, 40 already has an affluent appearance.