The stadium was almost entirely paid for by private funds on what was basically wasteland, but yet her and the article author are miffed it exists?gone corporate wrote: ↑Mar 02, 2023^You know what really saves cities? TAX REVENUES!!!!!
Look for those to go up in the near term, with direct causality to the new national entertainment franchise that has committed north of half a billion dollars to its development in Downtown West. Plus, earnings taxes assessed on professional athletes, especially globally-recognized franchise players, is one of the biggest revenue generators this City has. Meanwhile, this egghead twit is more concerned that the architect is a female than in how the City actually works. While she may be a sound associate professor of aesthetics, she flat-out doesn't get the economics of how cities pay the bills.
Positive Revenue Generation and Asset Allocation Saves Cities. Schools and Police don't pay for themselves. Potholes certainly don't. Our new MLS team will generate tax monies through direct and multiple indirect revenue streams. STL has new monies coming in. That'll help turn our City around.
Eyes on the prize, people...
1. It was black urban erasure, not everyone in Mill Creek was "low income". There were people of all incomes in that neighborhood, it was just a black neighborhood.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Mar 02, 2023"It continues a pattern and redevelopment model of low-income urban erasure that allows city leaders to seat 20,000 profitable visitors in the space of what were 20,000 residents’ homes.”
not sure why she glossed over the fact that this was a highway interchange for the last 50 years
2. Yes, you are correct. My grandfather lived in Mill Creek. Did 4 years in the Navy in the 50s, when he came back the neighborhood was gone and Pruitt Igoe was being built. I have an uncle who grew up in Soulard in the 40s and 50s, many people don't know that neighborhood was also considered a black slum and was slated for demolition during the 50s.
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That’s not the point, the point is that this stadium is better than the use that was there for the last 50 years. We can’t go back in time and change the demolition of the neighborhood, all we could do is demolish what was there, the highways interchange and replace it with a stadium complex.
I was agreeing with you. I was just rebutting what she was saying about it being a "low income" neighborhood. Yes, there were low income people in Mill Creek, but in was a mixed income black neighborhood. I generally agree that the stadium is a good investment for that area.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Mar 02, 2023That’s not the point, the point is that this stadium is better than the use that was there for the last 50 years. We can’t go back in time and change the demolition of the neighborhood, all we could do is demolish what was there, the highways interchange and replace it with a stadium complex.
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My Dad also always said Mill Creek was a self-sufficient, stand-up neighborhood and the highways just decimated it. Sad.goat314 wrote: ↑Mar 02, 2023I was agreeing with you. I was just rebutting what she was saying about it being a "low income" neighborhood. Yes, there were low income people in Mill Creek, but in was a mixed income black neighborhood. I generally agree that the stadium is a good investment for that area.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Mar 02, 2023That’s not the point, the point is that this stadium is better than the use that was there for the last 50 years. We can’t go back in time and change the demolition of the neighborhood, all we could do is demolish what was there, the highways interchange and replace it with a stadium complex.
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It's preposterous to me that the generations of old could sit together in meetings and collectively think that the destruction of a vibrant neighborhood was the best course of action for the city.
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^ it was common and the reasoning was “it’s a minority neighborhood” there will be minimal resistance from general population
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Is it? We’re talking about the same group of white men that burned down every black middle class neighborhood in the country when they got home from WWI.RockChalkSTL wrote: ↑Mar 02, 2023It's preposterous to me that the generations of old could sit together in meetings and collectively think that the destruction of a vibrant neighborhood was the best course of action for the city.
Another dispatch from the ivory tower
WUSTL - WashU Expert: City SC is game changer for downtown St. Louis, MLS
https://source.wustl.edu/2023/02/washu- ... louis-mls/
WUSTL - WashU Expert: City SC is game changer for downtown St. Louis, MLS
https://source.wustl.edu/2023/02/washu- ... louis-mls/
I’m already awaiting the pearl clutching about traffic and complaints about lack of parking. Missouri Valley basketball at Enterprise and sold out Trevor Noah at Stifel Theater should be interesting wrinkles for tomorrow.
^^ All the suburban b*tching about traffic aside…that sounds like exactly what downtown needs.
Also, from what I’ve heard the little garage they built is only for VIPs/the most expensive season ticket holders. Not sure how legit that is, but if it’s true…the vast majority are gonna be fighting for parking. I’ll be taking the train.
Also, from what I’ve heard the little garage they built is only for VIPs/the most expensive season ticket holders. Not sure how legit that is, but if it’s true…the vast majority are gonna be fighting for parking. I’ll be taking the train.
yes, that is 100% correct, I am going to the game with my family tomorrow. One person in my family is disabled and uses a wheelchair, so we were worried about finding accessible parking. We are season ticket holders in pretty good seats. We called and asked if we could use the garage, the way it was described to us from STL City staff is that "those are the spots for rich people." Honestly kind of an odd response and you would think the team would make an official announcement stating who can use the garage. I guess it makes the whole previous block's demolition all the more painful.
They might very well learn from that error. Just like they bungled the pre sale of the US Women's National Team a bit.2020STL wrote: ↑Mar 04, 2023yes, that is 100% correct, I am going to the game with my family tomorrow. One person in my family is disabled and uses a wheelchair, so we were worried about finding accessible parking. We are season ticket holders in pretty good seats. We called and asked if we could use the garage, the way it was described to us from STL City staff is that "those are the spots for rich people." Honestly kind of an odd response and you would think the team would make an official announcement stating who can use the garage. I guess it makes the whole previous block's demolition all the more painful.
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I'm with SC, both in sentiment and in fact. Taking the train to the block party and STL could stand to walk a few blocks...or also take the train.
Good thing there are train stops right there.dweebe wrote: ↑Mar 03, 2023I’m already awaiting the pearl clutching about traffic and complaints about lack of parking. Missouri Valley basketball at Enterprise and sold out Trevor Noah at Stifel Theater should be interesting wrinkles for tomorrow.
Worst part are going to be the folks using street and lot parking and possibly leaving guns in their gloveboxes. That, in it of itself, is impossible to police or prevent. What happened to Coatar's parking lot bill?
How soon are the broken blue line trains supposed to be fixed? Yesterday they were still running single carsbwcrow1s wrote: ↑Mar 04, 2023Good thing there are train stops right there.dweebe wrote: ↑Mar 03, 2023I’m already awaiting the pearl clutching about traffic and complaints about lack of parking. Missouri Valley basketball at Enterprise and sold out Trevor Noah at Stifel Theater should be interesting wrinkles for tomorrow.
Bizarrely short story, but she ain't wrong.quincunx wrote: ↑Mar 02, 2023What a Debbie Downer!
WUSTL - WashU Expert: Stadiums don’t save cities
https://source.wustl.edu/2023/02/washu- ... ve-cities/
This is the fifth sports stadium in downtown STL. And 5 attempts in, DT STL still has very little foot traffic vibrancy unless its game day and the foot traffic is directly adjacent to the stadium. In fact, DT STL, as a whole, has less foot traffic vibrancy now than it did 25 years ago.
Be that as it may, this stadium (unlike the last 4) was mostly privately funded which I consider a huge win.
Enjoy it today soccer fans. Don't let my "same STL sh*t, different STL year" cynicism pop your bubble.
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When the Dome and Busch were built there was 800 residents in downtown and 2000 in downtown west and today there is 6,000 in each.
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I think she’s very wrong I think we all know stadiums don’t revitalize downtowns but they do help with the process of revitalization. Businesses & residents are the bread winners. We can’t accomplish any of that with all the debbie downy syndrome that consistently plagues St.Louis as a whole. Every time downtown gets a win then we’re looking for the next tragic negative to happen & it becomes a down word spiral like depression. It’s time we all start treating downtown as a big city downtown and not a small town downtown crime happens in every city every downtown for some reason St.Louis is over reactionary to it which it hurts all of us. We do need solutions on solving crime calming streets incentives for all businesses and getting rid of nuisance properties and people who cause & enable drama. I would love our downtown to have a unique feel and experience. We all say St.Louis has so much potential & we’re right we do however we cant be successful if we allow every little negative to cloud some of the successes we’ve accomplished. Like that article or any negative article to remind us how sh*tty our downtown is. It’s like this is what people crave negativity
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Wasn’t Busch III like 90/10 private/public? Plus wasn’t Kiel like 2/3rds private and 1/3rds public?soulardx wrote: ↑Mar 04, 2023Bizarrely short story, but she ain't wrong.quincunx wrote: ↑Mar 02, 2023What a Debbie Downer!
WUSTL - WashU Expert: Stadiums don’t save cities
https://source.wustl.edu/2023/02/washu- ... ve-cities/
This is the fifth sports stadium in downtown STL. And 5 attempts in, DT STL still has very little foot traffic vibrancy unless its game day and the foot traffic is directly adjacent to the stadium. In fact, DT STL, as a whole, has less foot traffic vibrancy now than it did 25 years ago.
Be that as it may, this stadium (unlike the last 4) was mostly privately funded which I consider a huge win.
Enjoy it today soccer fans. Don't let my "same STL sh*t, different STL year" cynicism pop your bubble.
Yes, we got screwed on the Dome and learned our lesson.
If stadiums and arenas are so dumb. Where do you want them? What meets your approval? What would downtown be if all the venues were out in the suburbs?
Yep, residential population in DT has indeed been a win. Love to see it and want to see it continue!dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Mar 04, 2023When the Dome and Busch were built there was 800 residents in downtown and 2000 in downtown west and today there is 6,000 in each.
However, when the Dome and Busch were built, I'd guess the daytime population (office workers and the businesses that serve them) of DT was higher than it was in 2019 (pre-Covid). Hence, the streets were more vibrant then.
No issues with downtown stadiums at all. glad they are downtown.dweebe wrote: ↑Mar 04, 2023Wasn’t Busch III like 90/10 private/public? Plus wasn’t Kiel like 2/3rds private and 1/3rds public?
Yes, we got screwed on the Dome and learned our lesson.
If stadiums and arenas are so dumb. Where do you want them? What meets your approval? What would downtown be if all the venues were out in the suburbs?
my main gripe are stories and booster talking points like this:
https://www.stltoday.com/business/local ... 688e2.html
I'm old enough to remember 4 of our sports stadiums opening in DT STL and these stories (and claims from sports fans) ran like clockwork each time we christened a new stadium. Meanwhile, DT STL is no more vibrant. 0/4.
What should be done to the people who author false hope articles and online posts? How can we make sure that only neutral or tempered somewhat negative "this won't fix anything" expectations are expressed?soulardx wrote: ↑Mar 04, 2023No issues with downtown stadiums at all. glad they are downtown.dweebe wrote: ↑Mar 04, 2023Wasn’t Busch III like 90/10 private/public? Plus wasn’t Kiel like 2/3rds private and 1/3rds public?
Yes, we got screwed on the Dome and learned our lesson.
If stadiums and arenas are so dumb. Where do you want them? What meets your approval? What would downtown be if all the venues were out in the suburbs?
my main gripe are stories and booster talking points like this:
https://www.stltoday.com/business/local ... 688e2.html
I'm old enough to remember 4 of our sports stadiums opening in DT STL and these stories (and claims from sports fans) ran like clockwork each time we christened a new stadium. Meanwhile, DT STL is no more vibrant. 0/4.
But I think we're safe from these articles going forward. The NFL isn't coming back, the Cardinals are fine at Busch III and the Blues just renovated Enterprise with some state money.