urbanSTL

I must admit, I am biased towards soccer in general, but because I live in a city that is being successful at hustling to make us a modern city, I believe we could expect better out of a design. Because this is to benefit the community, it should be an icon and I honestly do not think this will be an icon with its odd location and surroundings being parking lots. It will feel bastardized from the rest of Downtown.

Absolutely love this design. 

Although the design might not be as adventurous as I was hoping for, I think this is a perfectly acceptable stadium for a new MLS market like Saint Louis.  

I do hope that we don't end up seeing parking garages surround the stadium.  Downtown West still needs a fair bit of work around there and a couple of multi-story parking lots would absolutely smother the vibe of the area.  The Metro station is less than half a mile away and there are already a few surface lots nearby... Would that be enough?

The Mayor wrote:
I also saw the lead image on the PD website showing the garage with a practice field on top of it.  Haven't seen a full size image of that yet though.  But a small garage with a practice field on it would be pretty cool.

I wonder if they got that rendering from MLS4THELOU’s website. Because that renderings looks like this on the website



Here’s the Post Dispatch version


I think it’s a gaff.

chriss752 wrote:

Wolfpaw wrote:Your criticism is a bit harsh I think we should all be thankful that they’ve come this far and that St Louis is actually one of the leading candidates in receiving a team.  The rendering is conceptual so there be some tweaking and something tells me there’s going to be a lot more development around the overall project.   By the way I happen to love the navy pier wanna be union station


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Well, my harshness is my opinion. It could get better or worse depending on the greater area looks. This little sentence in the Business Journal doesn’t give me much hope for the area surrounding the stadium. Do they mean just the first floor of the stadium or the whole neighborhood? The renderings leave out a lot.

I don't understand how that sentence doesn't give you hope. It sound to me like they are going to develop the area around the stadium into mixed use. Isn't that what we would want?

I strongly preferred the original spiral design:

 
 

Chriss, you alluded to another hotel proposal on another forthcoming development proposal over on Iron Hill thread..   I'm wondering if we area going to see a proposed West Downtown development touted as Soccer Village and tied to the new stadium.

On different note but related to this site.  Is the work to demo what was supposed to be 22nd Parkway and a new Jeff Ave on/off ramps scheduled to start this year? 

jshank83 wrote: I don't understand how that sentence doesn't give you hope. It sound to me like they are going to develop the area around the stadium into mixed use. Isn't that what we would want?

Yes, that's what we would want but when looking at the renderings closer, the area of restaurants, shops, and gathering spaces appears to be at the base of the parking garage and in part of the stadium. One rendering, although very small, appears to show a portion of the stadium across Market and shows a gathering area for tailgating. My fear is that this "mixed-use district" will be very small and center only on the stadium and not the surrounding blocks. Another fear of mine is parking. Will there be garages or lots? Because either way, it will take an already depressing part of Downtown and turn into parking city USA. Maybe I am being a little bit crazed but when the ownership group lives out in suburbia, I don't think they'll be promoting an urban district. The only person to say that this will be utilized all year long is Kindle Betz. I'm not saying she's a liar but she needs to be more specific. An alley for pop up shops sounds interesting, and you can see where it is going in the rendering below, between the garage and stadium. Gathering spaces? Check. It just seems odd. If they want a district, go with residential, hotel and office space in addition to the retail, restaurants and gathering spaces.

I hope I am proven wrong in my worries when the full plan is released but at this time, I don't have much hope that this will have a true mixed-use district. The architects, HOK and Snow-Krielich can produce some pretty urban things, so hopefully, if a mixed-use district is included, it will be urban and activate the surrounding area.

framer wrote:I strongly preferred the original spiral design:

 
 

I agree with you there that could have been an icon type of stadium. The one thing I hope they consider with this new stadium is some dimensions however I’m pleased with it.


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Chris, I don't quite understand why this has to be about mixed used developments in a city full of mixed use developments being built or proposed at this time.  Another way to look at it, the best chance for urban infill around a stadium is in an urban area

I personally see a big plus whether the design gets tweaked or not, whether or not a soccer village is part of it for this stadium going in as proposed.  Especially when the remnants of the attempted parkway & messed up interchange is gone once and for all and MLS is in its place, an opportunity to get some street grid back if 21st and 22nd street are extended to Market, maybe some much needed attention for west end of the mall and if FBI can move to NGA site to free up some valuable real estate.  This stadium & union station on one end of Clark and BPV phase II on the other end of Clark are only making South of Market more appealing.  Heck, bankers might be convinced that developing Old Muni courts building with infill facing Clark is a safe bet.  Yes it might take a few years but you got the makings of the area developing piece by piece, infill by infill, into a great little area.   I think it is a smart play on ownership group to focus on the stadium and securing the team. 

chriss752 wrote:

jshank83 wrote: I don't understand how that sentence doesn't give you hope. It sound to me like they are going to develop the area around the stadium into mixed use. Isn't that what we would want?

Yes, that's what we would want but when looking at the renderings closer, the area of restaurants, shops, and gathering spaces appears to be at the base of the parking garage and in part of the stadium. One rendering, although very small, appears to show a portion of the stadium across Market and shows a gathering area for tailgating. My fear is that this "mixed-use district" will be very small and center only on the stadium and not the surrounding blocks. Another fear of mine is parking. Will there be garages or lots? Because either way, it will take an already depressing part of Downtown and turn into parking city USA. Maybe I am being a little bit crazed but when the ownership group lives out in suburbia, I don't think they'll be promoting an urban district. The only person to say that this will be utilized all year long is Kindle Betz. I'm not saying she's a liar but she needs to be more specific. An alley for pop up shops sounds interesting, and you can see where it is going in the rendering below, between the garage and stadium. Gathering spaces? Check. It just seems odd. If they want a district, go with residential, hotel and office space in addition to the retail, restaurants and gathering spaces.

I hope I am proven wrong in my worries when the full plan is released but at this time, I don't have much hope that this will have a true mixed-use district. The architects, HOK and Snow-Krielich can produce some pretty urban things, so hopefully, if a mixed-use district is included, it will be urban and activate the surrounding area.

It is hard for me to get too worked up about it when we hardly see anything around it yet. You are seeing a small snippet on one side of the stadium (and very close in). It says surround by a downtown west DISTRICT, so I am going to take that to mean things on all sides not just one. If what is in the image is considered a district then I they have a very different outlook on that than I do. I think you are reading way too much into a preliminary rendering thats main focus was to just show the stadium. I will hold out my opinion on the "surroundings" until we actually see what they will be. 

I hope they open it up a bit more to the north and east. Much of the charm of Busch Stadium, PNC Park, Petco Park and others is the sweeping views they provide of their respective skylines. Obviously the views aren't going to be as dramatic from 21st street, but still, Union Station, Civil Courts, Park Pacific and Eagleton and even just the urban hodge podge of DT West would make for an great backdrop to a soccer game. 

I think it's reasonable to expect that the owners should position it with some elements of an urban "village" with areas for shops, etc. That said, I don't believe we know the exact footprint of the land they're being given and frankly, expecting a group that is spending $200 million on a stadium out of pocket and $200 million to bring the team here to also invest in speculative mixed-use development surrounding it is asking a lot.  They should be conscious of the design and how it interacts with the area around it and then, if they don't have the appetite to develop it themselves (or don't have the ability b/c they don't own the land), then  work with other parties to develop the area organically. I would think that this stadium, revamped Union Station and Enterprise Center are enough to anchor the area and result in supplemental investment, but at the same time it's also reasonable to ask how many "urban village" developments the central corridor can support.

Parking absolutely should be minimal if any at all, as their are multiple garages within a few blocks, sufficient for the Blues who would draw about the same size crowd. Hotel's will already be saturated as there are six within a half mile including the new one. Building spec office downtown right now is a risky move. So that leaves you with some multi-family + retail/entertainment as likely the most viable use as of now. The stadium won't be built until 2021 at the earliest so who knows how the climate will be downtown by then.

I would love to see a "Show your MetroLink ticket for $2 off a beer/food" season promo or MLS could just pay MetroLink to run trains for free 2 hours before and 2 hours after game.
No. More. Parking. 
MetroLink can shuttle in 7,000 fans per hour. 

^^ I agree. 

I don't think the owners need to worry about what surrounds the stadium right now. Just get the thing built and ready for 2021. 

If downtown is trending upward, like we all think it is, the village and "neighborhood" will happen organically. For instance, there are tons of parking lots up and down Pine in that area of town that are begging to be developed. And, of course, it'd be nice to have buildings surrounding the stadium, but those can happen in time. It'd probably be smart to see how Foundry and Iron Hill and some of those other huge developments are doing before they break ground on additional retail and housing. 

This isn't even a 100% sure thing yet. The stadium needs to happen before the rest can. 

STLEnginerd wrote: Does anyone know which way is north in the rendering...?

Which one?

Here's the site as it is:

urbanitas wrote:

chriss752 wrote:

STLEnginerd wrote: Does anyone know which way is north in the rendering...?

This rendering?

North is at 10 o'clock.  That parking garage is the existing Drury Inn garage, if that helps.

I realize these renderings are far from finished but I hope Maggie O'Briens is preserved in these updated plans - just as it was under the previous ownership group. The stadium in the above rendering appears to bump up against 20th street with a main entrance right at the corner of Market and 20th. I wonder if the site plan was shifted slightly East with the construction of the Fairfield Inn?

While the Maggie's building is far from architecturally significant, I'd still be disappointed to lose an established bar right next store to the stadium.