urbanSTL

A statue of Pierre Laclede overlooks Market, just west of City Hall. I'm not sure where Auguste Chouteau stands, though he rests in Calvary on the northside.

stl555 wrote:I heard on the radio this morning that the Danforth foundation is releasing sketches of their vision for the riverfront. These include the man-made islands and skating rink, so looks like they're determined to go with either Concept 3 or 4 for this project. They will be picking an engineering firm in the next few days to give cost estimates.

Meanwhile, the McGowan plan for the Gateway Mall includes a skating rink as well - sounds like we need a unified plan of action here!



(My two cents: a skating rink would be much better somewhere on the Gateway Mall.)

If it's pretty to ride through on the way to the Choteau greenway, then I might be one of very few St. Louisians to ever bother seeing the new riverfront. Don't the backers of this plan realize they have no more chance of "reviving" the riverfront this way than they would on the east bank? I live walking distance away and can't get excited about this.



Let's just accept that the modern riverfront's only asset is the history tourism potential and just plant more trees, make the street pretty, and dock a few riverboats with specialized history museums on them.



(and a streetcar to connect the rest of downtown.)

I agree simply greening the area and improving connections to the rest of downtown would be the wisest investment.



I bet the McGowan group will defer to the Danforth foundation, and we'll end up with an underutilized skating rink floating on an island in the Mississippi. I can't believe I didn't just make that up.

My favorite was hearing Sortino say he would like to see dining on the lid?! None of the current buildings along Memorial Drive even relate to these defacto highway frontage/outer-roads. The lid will easily be just an overly landscaped pedestrian refuge, making it easier for folks to walk between the Arch and the CBD, but it surely won't become a destination in itself.



And just as locals won't likely head to the lid to dine, locals won't head to the levee to recreate. Simply put, the riverfront should play off what it is-- a river. In other words, locate unique amenities that play off the river as a destination, like riverboats, but don't make it the catch-all dumping ground for all recreational activities, from skate park to ice rink. Recreational facilities need to be where local residents will actually use them, within neighborhoods, not along the levee.



Sure, proponents will say, but we're building something to attract tourists. But then I say, tourists feel safer, where they see locals. So then, if you build something that locals can't easily access, then you'll be stuck with something that tourists sense is eerily too empty and hence an unsafe place to linger and enjoy.

I dunno about a skating rink by a river. I kinda like the man made islands but they need to do something else. i know there is something out there that would be perfect for the riverfront i just can't think of it at the moment.

I tend to agree with Phobia and 555. Its a RIVERFRONT for crying out loud! Floating islands and Jetsons walkways are for Disneyland. Let's just fix it up, make it accessable, and put a whole bunch of riverboat activities down there. OK, and maybe some small-scale boardwalk-type vendors and cafes and seating etc. The riverfront should be where people go to experience THE RIVER! I mean, its the freaking MISSISSIPPI, for christ's sake! Let's show it some respect.



Oh, yeah...and let's restore the street's true name - Wharf Street!

From the Downtown Partnership:

Chicago-based focus groups favorably responded to the boldest concept for development of our riverfront. As part of the Riverfront Planning process, people who had visited the Gateway Arch within the past several years liked the concept that featured floating islands and terraces. They consistently mentioned Navy Pier as an example of the kind of attractions the riverfront could offer.

I just don't understand why St. Luis doesnt try to make it like a Bayou Place down here in houston or like san Antanio with the river walk, sure it'll flood but they could find a way to put shops and cafes on the river. Just like in Paris. maybye to control the water they could build a dam or something.

One must have "a trolley line"



A trolley line running North-South along the riverfront from the new bike trailhead (or from the Pinnacle's new pedestrian tunnel) down to the soon to be rehabbed Chouteau's Landing.

I must be in the minority, but for god sakes not the "riverboat angle" LOL. Nothing like the old Huck Fin and Becky Thatcher to make your city more progressive ha ha.

phobia wrote:
Let's just accept that the modern riverfront's only asset is the history tourism potential and just plant more trees, make the street pretty, and dock a few riverboats with specialized history museums on them.

(and a streetcar to connect the rest of downtown.)

Wrong. Restaurants and clubs overlooking the river would have a geat view if they had balconies. The flooding would be a problem, but they could come up with something. People are drawn to water, even if it's a river, and the view would be nice. It'd be nice to have a market down there, kind of like Pike's market in Seattle, and some nice restaurants and maybe a little shopping. It'd be great, unless you take the typical St. Louis "it'll never work" attitude.

SoulardD wrote:Wrong. Restaurants and clubs overlooking the river would have a geat view if they had balconies. The flooding would be a problem, but they could come up with something. People are drawn to water, even if it's a river, and the view would be nice. It'd be nice to have a market down there, kind of like Pike's market in Seattle, and some nice restaurants and maybe a little shopping. It'd be great, unless you take the typical St. Louis "it'll never work" attitude.

Wrong.



You want to create a flood-prone, linear strip of restaurants and clubs between the flood wall and the water? Cut off from downtown by a giant, imposing grass-covered hill?



The Pike Place Market is where Seattle's retail district falls off the bluff. It is a part of downtown, and engages the Sound only with a few nice views. It's also a historic place... our waterfront is historic for culture and commerce, not shopping.



Our city meets the river at the landings. which are great places for your establishments. The Eads-Poplar levee is isolated. I live, work, and play down here... downtown is my neighborhood and I can't imagine being bothered to go that far out of my way unless there was a specific destination to draw me.



Build the restaurants and clubs on the landings or in downtown. Let the levee be a museum district to draw in tourists and educate them (and then invite them into the city with streetcars to the landing, garment district, ballpark, soulard market, ...).

While I think the steamboat theme would've worked well if the riverfront had been left intact, I don't see it as appropriate now, I also don't think it's a good place for restaurants and clubs. A nice greening of the area, along with a single place to grab a drink and bite to eat overlooking the river would work well (this is essentially Concept 1 from the Balmori team by the way.)



I think we should treat the Archgrounds like most cities treat their waterfronts, so develop the restaurants and clubs lining Memorial looking out onto the grounds, and further develop Laclede's and Chouteau's Landing if you want development right along the riverfront. All the city has authority to work with is the thin strip of land between the archgrounds and the riverfront, I don't see a lot of commercial development happening there anytime soon.

I think the design team's idea of opening up the "vaults" in the Eads Bridge in order to place retail in the base of the bridge itself was excellent.

Phobia,



I was kind of asking for it by opening it with: Wrong. So thanks for the rolling eyes emoticon. I do kind of get your point, and if the landing and Chouteau's landing end up right, I guess I'd be happy with your suggestions. So many tourists hang out there despite the lack of things to do, though. I just would love to see something down there similar to how other cities use thier waterfronts.

DeBaliviere wrote:I think the design team's idea of opening up the "vaults" in the Eads Bridge in order to place retail in the base of the bridge itself was excellent.

I agree that was a great idea. A lot of their ideas as far as the connections to downtown and some active elements were good; but they lost me on the whole islands/swimming pool/skating rink thing. It would be an interesting engineering challenge, and get Balmori some national headlines, but I don't think it's in the city's best interests. It'd end up being the latest in a long line of "white elephant" projects downtown. I would vote for something simple, practical and oriented to the growing residential population in and around downtown, as opposed to the more tourist-oriented islands.

Hi,



I'm new here. I have been reading the posts on this site for the past two weeks and decided to become a member. I'm not a St. Louis native, but I am interested enough in the city and metro area that I'm considering moving there in a couple of years. .



Does anybody know the latest about this project?

I think we're a long ways off from seeing this project started. They are still in a 'planning' mode, trying to decide which design is best, and how much money they have to operate with.



Oh, and welcome to the forums!

Why is parking allowed on the levee? A parking lot on the levee? I'd rather see grass than that. On top of that its at an angle like a hill! Who's idea was that?

bry456 wrote:Why is parking allowed on the levee? A parking lot on the levee? I'd rather see grass than that. On top of that its at an angle like a hill! Who's idea was that?

Err.. it's a levee. They are generally constructed at a shallow slope, where possible, because the shape is inherently more stable than a vertical wall. Kind of like the pyramids vs. a skyscraper -- which lasts longer?



Also, if you think about it, the Mississippi levee at St. Louis has ALWAYS been a parking lot. It's just that 180 years ago it was for docking steamboats.

I think you've gotta have parking on the Levee. To bad there's not much to draw traffic down there these days, though. Personally, I prefer the old cobblestones over a lawn. Those are a HUGE part of our history. Isn't their enough lawn around The Arch, for crying out loud?

has anyone seen the riverfront in louisville, ky? i grew up there and downtown at the time was pretty sad looking for as long as i could remember. it was very unwelcoming, but check it out now... click on the images on the left side of the screen...



http://www.gotolouisville.com/phototour ... hotoID=212



i am simply amazed every time i visit home now and wish stl could do something similar and soon! i see lots of people jogging downtown, playing in the green space, riding bikes... things that no one in their right mind would have tried to do when i was growing up.



more...



http://www.asla.org/meetings/awards/awd ... ville2.jpg

Aren't they supposed to be coming up with a plan for this thing starting this summer? Or some type of funding for it at least. I already saw the renderings. But an actual plan of what to do would be good.



I think I read that somewhere.



They need to get started on this. Maybe using the Louisville riverfront as one example. of what they could do.