urbanSTL

Mill204 wrote:
Looking back, I'm not so sure I fully understand why Metro decided to delay the official line colors as it doesn't seem to make sense. I mean, they already had to post a bunch of maps to post at stations and in trains that will have to be changed regardless of where the final Illinois termini are located. I can only understand it, now, if Metro were undecided whether they wanted to use colors for the line naming scheme. I personally don't mind if colors were used as a supplementary piece of information on maps and such, but I think numbers or letters would make a better primary naming scheme.



Oh, and I've always like the skiing trail maps and amusement park maps, so perhaps that's why I like Metro's overview maps.

However, unless you are considering stored value mag stripes a "smart" card, it is a very new technology in full scale use. The Washington area and Maryland project may be the most extensive implementation. It started in 2001 and is still not complete as of 2006. Bart, CTA and NYC have been doing "tests" for years. Marta has been working with this since 1996, but are not done with their implementation 10 years later.

212 wrote:Not sure where you got your information about NYC "Smart Cards". They're called Metrocard and they've been in use since 1994. Every bus and subway station accepts them everywhere. Tokens were discontinuted years ago. Read all about it on the MTA website - http://www.mta.info/metrocard/index.html



That being said, I really don't get why St. Louis has the conductors walk around and randomly collect tickets. Seems like a waste to me.



They should issue cards like Metro card that people can swipe at a turnstile before the reach the platform.



In NY the Metrocard also allows you free transfers from subway to bus and vice versa. This would be perfect for St. louis' system as well.

"I saw a report on channel 2 news several months ago on metrolink honor system. The freeloading on metrolink is less than national average on light rail systems with no turnstile. I would love to see metro lower fares to encourage more transit use but that is probaly not possibe due decling sales tax renvue which makes up 60 percent of their operating revenue, inflation, higer diseal costs, health insurances costs despite their employess paying more for those benefits. Unless metro recives additional funding by april 2007 metro will to have make major services cuts this is last year metro will able to maintain existing service without new renvue."





"Realistically, fares couldn't be lowered with turnstiles installed. For one, where would the capital outlay for installation come from? And once installed, maintenance would be an added cost. Granted, you now have to pay labor costs for security, but fare inspection is not their sole function. Also, the fare for MetroLink is already now higher than a MetroBus single-ride fare, as it should be for more competitive service."



"At first I didn't like the Metro honor system, but I've come to appreciate it and here's why:



You can just jump over traditional turnstyles, and if no one sees, you're golden! The alternative is to have metro employees watching the turnstyles (or build gigantic gates). That would get really expensive with all the stations. As we have it now, ticket checkers on the Metro keep most riders honest, provide a visible security presence, and keep costs down."



"None of the stations are really set up to easily install turnstiles. It would be a $$$ issue to get it done.

I also think that it could turn out to be a bad PR move as it may look like their are viewing their riders as an "untrustworthy" crew."



I agree with the high cost of REdesigning every station to make them turnstile friendly... but I don?t think the public - or at least the law abiding paying public (the ones who?s opinions <and> shape Metro choices) will see it as anything other than a business choice.



"The chance to start with this was lost when the new stations weren't made with this built into their plans... it would have been very easy to design the new stations so that turnstiles could be added easily."

it's that redesigning stations so that the same people who don't pay for Metro don't simply jump or skip the turnstiles would be a massive expense that metro cannot afford...more than would be recouped by a few more people paying.

stlmike wrote:

it's that redesigning stations so that the same people who don't pay for Metro don't simply jump or skip the turnstiles would be a massive expense that metro cannot afford...more than would be recouped by a few more people paying.

I'm just not satisfied with this. All you have to do is make a small entrance point with about 5 turnstiles in a row so that it's more difficult. The "gate" can simply be a 3 foot brick wall. You just pay one guard to stand by that small entryway. Sure, people can jump it, but as anyone who's regularly used the MTA or the CTA knows, it's pretty obvious when someone jumps over a turnstile and someone almost always stops that person.



I'm not dying for the change, but I don't think the honor system is anything to defend so passionately.

bikin'_man wrote: it's these little things that make it a bit tricky, but it can be done with deddicated supervision.

STLgasm wrote:but there are probably some licensing issues that we might get sticky, ya know?

Mill204 wrote:Alright stlmike, prove it (show me?). I'll make it easier for you by giving you 3 stations to plan your fences and tower guards. Redesign the following stations with fences and and guards where you deem fit: Big Bend, Grand, Sunnen.

How expensive is it for maybe five turnstiles and a cheap iron fence around every station? I really don't appreciate being accused of going around in circles and all the sighing like "Wow. He just doesn't get it does he? How dense would you have to be to disagree with this?" I think it's a legitamate concern and I'm just saying that I'm not satisfied with the "too expensive" argument. I don't think it would be too expensive.