urbanSTL

20 years if we are lucky. It will probably be 10 until the north-south line comes to fruition.

bpe235 wrote:how long until our map has as many lines at DC's?

50-100

walking is fine when the weather is nice...but who is going to walk and carry back merch. in the rain...snow, cold weather?

bpe235 wrote:walking is fine when the weather is nice...but who is going to walk and carry back merch. in the rain...snow, cold weather?

Not many St. Louisans besides the hard core and the postal service.... But more and more people ride, eventually infill will happen... the land there is too vaulable not to.... (though i am ignorant to any specifics)

bpe235 wrote:walking is fine when the weather is nice...but who is going to walk and carry back merch. in the rain...snow, cold weather?

But to be fair, look at the situation in other cities. People do it there right? Or if not, they wait for nice days.



Our system isn't at the level of DC or NYC yet. But let's not kid ourselves and say that every station in those cities pops up at the front door of every attraction and every retailer. Walking is a part of using a public transit system, and if that walk is convenient and less than 10 minutes, that station has been successfully placed. And as someone else pointed out, St. Louisans are just not transit-savvy--we're not used to it yet. Yes, the "convenience" of the walk can be debated easily, but at the same time, that's a situation that can be relatively easily rectified.



As for the maps, I say nice job, Jive. It's an improvement over the "cartoonish" ones, but I think those maps do have a place. We all know that St. Louis has some world-class attractions, but outside of the Arch, most people don't know that they exist. So the "cartoonish" maps help illustrate the myriad things this city has to offer. I think even natives could use a reminder of what we have.



I also don't like the truncated maps Metro has on the trains themselves; the ones where the system looks like a "V." It makes the system look less extensive than it is.

steve wrote:

bpe235 wrote:I also don't like the truncated maps Metro has on the trains themselves; the ones where the system looks like a "V." It makes the system look less extensive than it is.

I've seen these on most other transit systems. I especially like it when each station's dot is actually a light that can tell you where the train currently is. I like having these maps on the trains themselves because this makes it really easy to count how many stations you have before the train stops at yours. When someone is getting on the train, hopefully they already know what station they need to get off at. Making it easy to count stations standing passengers because they can't see the station names outside as easily and they might not be able to hear the announcement over the speaker.

If the managers of the Best Buy / Home Depot and Dierbergs / Office Max as well as the Target / Trader Joes and Whole Foods / Borders big box developments ever get their act together, they can all chip in on a free shuttle that will take people around to all the major stores as well as to the Metro stop.

JMedwick wrote:Just a quick idea about Dierbergs... I know that the situation will likely not be resolved untill the parking garages are built for the station, but just a quick idea is that once the parking garages are built, maybe Dierbergs would allow a link IF Metro agreed to police the Dierbergs lot, ticketing those parking illigaly. Even better, as an incentive, Metro would bare the cost of policing the lot but also the benefit of collecting all revenues generated by writing tickets.

I was up in the Dierbergs plaza last night while in my own personal hell: shoe shopping with my girlfriend at DSW.



Anyway, I noticed a Hartmann's flatbed tow truck patrolling the lot. He was hanging out for a good 10 to 15 minutes driving up and down the rows multiple times. I wonder if he was looking for people parked illegally while at the ballgame?

Yes I like the map you developed as well. I particularly like the Blue and Red matching the blue and red on the rail timetable and on the stop cards.



I don't know if you read my earlier posts on this forum explaining why we did not have color coded lines. We attempted to develop a map very much similar to your map. It was not approved using the color coding, which makes it easy to figure out the Shrewsbury Emerson line. Until the final decision on the branch end to connect to Shrewsbury is determined, Metro decided to postpone developing a system wide color code system. Personally I don't understand why, but that was the decision.



It would be much easier on our enunciation of trains to say "this is the blue line to Shrewsbury" or this is the Red line to Lambert. But alas we aren't going to do this until a final decision is made on the scheduling linkages between the line ends.



Do you have a preference? Should it be Lambert to Scott or Shrewsbury to Scott?

Great responses everyone, but I cannot take any credit for the map. I got it from http://www.urbanrail.net, which has a comprehensive database of rapid transit maps throughout the world.



I don't think it's fair to say that St. Louisans aren't transit-savvy. I think that only applies to the overwhelming number of suburbanites who aren't used to taking public transit who we've seen "trying out" the new MetroLink line as a family excursion. But sitting on those trains (and buses) during the week with the regular commuters, I see a very experienced, urbane ridership. They can hang with regular transit riders in any city. But the suburbanites and tourists with their fanny-packs definitely do bug me. I think those annoying maps at every station pander to that type of person, in all honesty.



I want to see some better maps. They don't have to be color-coded to be much, much clearer and easier on the eyes.

I don't think it's fair to say that St. Louisans aren't transit-savvy. I think that only applies to the overwhelming number of suburbanites who aren't used to taking public transit who we've seen "trying out" the new MetroLink line as a family excursion. But sitting on those trains (and buses) during the week with the regular commuters, I see a very experienced, urbane ridership.

Cannot agree more. Take the trains on weekends and events and another transit rider appears that is not savvy. Weekdays are a completely different league of transit riders. In addition, it isn't like Metro just opened in STL, the system has been open since 1993.



Also to add, the signage that Metro decided on is a disgrace. The maps or confusing and just plain ugly.

I just think of all the money Metro spent on this signage and wonder who decided on this junk. Look at UrbanRail or any online (non-affiliated) website with Metro maps. Who really makes these decisions over there? They need someone new!!!! NOW and FAST!

I don't mind the flattened line maps that a lot of metros use (Munich is an extreme example). What I think a lot of people mind, though, is that the colored flags that Metro uses on their maps are not obvious to most people and that Metro should have shown two lines on their maps from the start instead of a single color "Y". Of course, people in Atlanta don't seem to have any trouble differentiating Doraville trains from North Springs trains.







Looking back, I'm not so sure I fully understand why Metro decided to delay the official line colors as it doesn't seem to make sense. I mean, they already had to post a bunch of maps to post at stations and in trains that will have to be changed regardless of where the final Illinois termini are located. I can only understand it, now, if Metro were undecided whether they wanted to use colors for the line naming scheme. I personally don't mind if colors were used as a supplementary piece of information on maps and such, but I think numbers or letters would make a better primary naming scheme.



Oh, and I've always like the skiing trail maps and amusement park maps, so perhaps that's why I like Metro's overview maps.

MetroBus Rider Alerts - Details

Alert: #2 Change effective Monday, 10/9/06

Details: Effective Monday, October 9, 2006, Metro will remove bus service provided from the DeMun Avenue neighborhood streets including Northwood, Rosebury, and DeMun operated on the #2 WUSTL Red. This decision was made at the request of the City of Clayton in collaboration with DeMun neighborhood residents.

Reroute Info: The revised route will operate on Skinker to Clayton Rd in the southbound and northbound directions. Alternative access to this bus route will be available at existing bus stops on Skinker Blvd. (at Northwood, Rosebury, Southwood) and on Clayton Rd. at DeMun. This change will not impact the existing schedule.

Routes Affected: 02 WUSTL-RED

So the NIMBYs won out: great.

http://www.masstransitmag.com/article/a ... eSection=5





There are quite a few tests of Smart cards around the county. There are several operational systems in Asia and some tests in Europe.



However, unless you are considering stored value mag stripes a "smart" card, it is a very new technology in full scale use. The Washington area and Maryland project may be the most extensive implementation. It started in 2001 and is still not complete as of 2006. Bart, CTA and NYC have been doing "tests" for years. Marta has been working with this since 1996, but are not done with their implementation 10 years later.



Metro would love to implement a smart card system but it will be very complex, very expensive, and will take years to implement. It you don't have money to pay for train and bus operators, electricity and diesel fuel, its hard to start another massively expensive project.



So CWE.. you are correct that the "smart" card is not new, but full scale implementation in the US is still very much in its infancy.



We would like to consider a smart card system with distance based fare capability on buses and trains, but that requires GPS and a very modern digital communication system. We don't have that system. We are interested in a contactless system, but would like to find a way to use the card to enforce access to the rail station. That requires a lot of capital investment to install a "barrier" like entry and exit. Some of this technology for smart cards is more a dream that an actual operational system.



However, based upon your pessimistic perspective of local public transit, you are destined to be "disappointed" for quite a while.

Busdad wrote:However, based upon your pessimistic perspective of local public transit, you are destined to be "disappointed" for quite a while.

Don't let CWE get on your nerves. He is clearly a lay person with no idea how much engineering and upfront cost it takes to implement complex systems like the one you have just described. Just because smart cards have existed for a decade, does not mean a system to utilize them on a massive scale like metro wants to has, nor does it mean they have the funds to bring it rapidly to market.

cwe63108, how do you really feel about the new line?