Metro Safety

bprop · PostNov 01, 2015#2512015-11-01T23:29+00:00

eee123 wrote:Someone selling socks or transit passes, or playing three-card monty isn't really a safety issue. Sure, security should address it. But it's as much of a safety issue as being panhandled on the street is a safety issue.

Panhandling isn't illegal. Selling stolen goods and pirated DVDs, rolling blunts on the seat, smoking on the train, hosting gambling scams, and listening to loud, explicit music (with no headphones) are against the law and lead to a sense of lawlessness on the trains that feeds upon itself.

As I noted early in this thread, there are specific windows of time during the day during which security is undergoing shift changes or is otherwise NOT PRESENT in any form on the trains, and people doing the above know that. Anything goes during this time, and that is why the little things add up and most certainly are a safety issue.

downtown2007 · PostNov 02, 2015#2522015-11-02T03:20+00:00

What is the time of that window again?

bprop · PostNov 02, 2015#2532015-11-02T13:40+00:00

Early evening rush, typically - usually 3:30 - 4:30 depending when I leave work. I have not gotten my fare checked once during that time since Cross County opened and I average 4x a week. The other times I either get home a different way or take an earlier/later train.

Early morning rush is the same way as far as security - though there is some platform security - but at that time of day there are few issues. It's normally a pleasant commute, save for some of the train operators who aren't yet awake and open the doors on the wrong side of the train.

Edit: I need to narrow down the problem area. It's between the Landing and Forest Park. The reason is that, rarely, as in maybe twice a year, County police will board at Clayton and ride a stop or two, and sometimes will check tickets. The worst offenses occur consistently between Stadium and CWE.

gregl · PostNov 02, 2015#2542015-11-02T16:45+00:00

wabash wrote:
Randy wrote:The smart card system + no turnstiles will make freeriding easier, not harder.
How so?

I'm guessing he thinks that -- unlike the current tickets -- there will be no way to validate that the smart card was tapped to pay the fare upon entering -- which is definitely NOT true.

There are readers which fare inspectors will (hopefully) use that can determine if the smart card was tapped to pay the fare.

Greg

Randy · PostNov 02, 2015#2552015-11-02T18:03+00:00

^ A fare inspector can visually verify fare payment of about 4-5 paper tickets or passes in the amount of time it takes the handheld devices to check a single smart card. This is my experience from observing the fare inspectors the very, very few times they are checking fares during the morning or evening rush.

This will make it considerably easier to dodge the fare inspectors by exiting the train at the next station before the fare inspector can make their way through the entire car, which people already regularly do, again just based on my observations.

imperialmog · PostNov 02, 2015#2562015-11-02T18:11+00:00

How about something similar to what is used in London? It seemed to work well from my own experiences there and has a couple of other benefits in terms of allowing fare zones and maximum fare charges on the same day. And the same smart card you tap also is used on their bus system.

bprop · PostNov 02, 2015#2572015-11-02T20:15+00:00

Randy wrote:^ A fare inspector can visually verify fare payment of about 4-5 paper tickets or passes in the amount of time it takes the handheld devices to check a single smart card. This is my experience from observing the fare inspectors the very, very few times they are checking fares during the morning or evening rush.

This will make it considerably easier to dodge the fare inspectors by exiting the train at the next station before the fare inspector can make their way through the entire car, which people already regularly do, again just based on my observations.

Maybe not if they all have an RFID chip?

The fare inspector just uses the homing device to point at the scofflow with an un-tapped Smart Card....

10-intuition · PostNov 05, 2015#2582015-11-05T10:15+00:00

gregl wrote:
wabash wrote: I'm guessing he thinks that -- unlike the current tickets -- there will be no way to validate that the smart card was tapped to pay the fare upon entering -- which is definitely NOT true.

There are readers which fare inspectors will (hopefully) use that can determine if the smart card was tapped to pay the fare.

Greg

The two dozen times that I rode Maryland MTA, the fare inspectors often carried hand held readers on them. They are able to scan the Charmcard/Smartrip cards with that when a rider has that card rather than a paper ticket. However, not all MTA fare inspectors carried that with them. I noticed riders with Charmcards saying that they swiped before getting on board the light rail.

When the Gateway RFID card finally does come out, I don't think every fare inspector will have access to the reader device, so your word is as good as theirs.

mjbais1489 · PostNov 05, 2015#2592015-11-05T15:12+00:00

any idea when that Gateway Smart card does come out?

Randy · PostNov 05, 2015#2602015-11-05T15:43+00:00

^ They're already out but they have been "beta testing" the system for over a year. In my mind, they can't expand this to 100% because they don't have a good way of checking fares and they don't have fare gates.

bprop · PostNov 29, 2015#2612015-11-29T17:24+00:00

This gives some new perspective on the issue. As typical with this region, it's maddening.

Serious crime rising on MetroLink, which is barred from having its own police force

http://fox2now.com/2015/11/23/serious-c ... ice-force/

ST. LOUIS (KTVI) - A You Paid For It investigation into Metrolink safety reveals overall crime is down, but it's up in serious categories like assaults, CCW, and disturbances and robbery.

Metro Trustee Board Member Mike Buehlhorn says the agency is doing the best it can.

He agrees it would be better to have its own police force, but says that would be hard to do.

Investigator Elliott Davis discovers some of the reasons why.

First the original agreement between the Missouri and Illinois setting up Metro, also called the Bi-State Development Agency, bars the agency for having its own police force.

Instead it's required to enter into contracts with local police agencies for rider protection.

For example, it paid The St. Clair County Sheriff's Office $1.3 million dollars in the past year for 22 Deputies. That's about $59,000 per deputy.

It pays St. Louis County Police $1.7 Million for 22 officers about $77,000 per officer.

St. Louis city police get $600,000 for 8 Officers. That's about $75,000 per officer.

Metro says it doesn't even get documentation on the hours those officers work. In short it's paying the bill, but has no control over the police officers assigned to Metro by the various law enforcement agencies.

Getting its own police force would require Metro to get the okay from the Illinois and Missouri legislatures along with the okay from the City of St. Louis, St. Louis County and St. Clair County.

Achieving that might be tough because of the invested interest in keeping things as they are now in order not to lose money for Metro.

Where the **** are these officers?

I have never, ever, ever, not once seen an SLMPD officer on a train or bus. Ever.

Why didn't Davis do some digging and ask the agencies why the police aren't upholding their own end of the bargain?

Talk about "Better Together": why would another police department be the answer as suggested in this segment?

eee123 · PostNov 29, 2015#2622015-11-29T19:01+00:00

bprop wrote:Where the **** are these officers?

I have never, ever, ever, not once seen an SLMPD officer on a train or bus. Ever.

Why didn't Davis do some digging and ask the agencies why the police aren't upholding their own end of the bargain?

Talk about "Better Together": why would another police department be the answer as suggested in this segment?

That's a great question. I've never seen one on the MO side. My wife says she frequently sees the same cop on the Illinois portion of the route.

I'm taking the "crime is up" portion of that story with a gargantuan grain of salt. Doesn't every TV news crime story make similar unsubstantiated claims about crime rates?

dweebe · PostNov 29, 2015#2632015-11-29T19:02+00:00

eee123 wrote:I'm taking the "crime is up" portion of that story with a gargantuan grain of salt. Doesn't every TV news crime story make similar unsubstantiated claims about crime rates?

Local TV news = FEAR! YOU MUST LIVE IN FEAR!

bprop · PostNov 29, 2015#2642015-11-29T19:23+00:00

Well, they do cite statistics of the specific crimes (maybe it's in the video and not in the written story).... although I wonder where they come from, because there's NO law enforcement on trains.

As a regular rider, I assert, completely anecdotally, crime has absolutely, 100% increased on the Metro system in the past, say, three years.

But seriously folks - we are paying for about 50 dedicated law enforcement officers. Split across even three complete shifts, that's 16 actual police officers that should be ensuring the safety of the Metro system every minute of the day. And we have, maybe, on average, one officer at any given time. And that's being extremely generous, particularly to St Louis City police, whose presence has never been noted.

downtown2007 · PostNov 30, 2015#2652015-11-30T00:57+00:00

Yeah these police departments are taking the money and running. Metro needs a reliable police force.

dbInSouthCity · PostDec 07, 2015#2662015-12-07T14:28+00:00

Metro ridership has dropped by 15 percent in the last two years and passengers say their top concern is safety

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crim ... Fo.twitter

quincunx · PostDec 07, 2015#2672015-12-07T15:59+00:00

Yikes! Is Metro's own PD an answer?

I wonder how much driving will decline after this:

KMOX - 2 people dead in 2-car accident downtown

http://www.kmov.com/story/30678014/1-pe ... t-downtown

bprop · PostDec 07, 2015#2682015-12-07T20:08+00:00

Absolutely not. They can't even account for the $3M they directly spend on policing. I don't trust these yahoos with a transit police force.

The article cited several cities with their own transit police, but our rinky-dink system doesn't need one. Not only that, but plenty of major cities (New York, for example) doesn't have a separate transit police.

They need to kick the low-wage, worthless security force to the curb and get either on- or off-duty officers exclusively.

MarkHaversham · PostDec 07, 2015#2692015-12-07T20:20+00:00

New York doesn't need a separate police force because transit can be policed by the NYPD. Metro operates in 300 different law enforcement jurisdictions.

bprop · PostDec 07, 2015#2702015-12-07T23:28+00:00

They've already [supposedly] contracted with the only three that they need - SLMPD, StL County, and St. Clair County. Of course anybody can sign a contract. It's the, you know, ensuring the contract is kept that Metro is not able to do. We don't need a whole new layer of infrastructure to accomplish what Metro is already paying for.

MarkHaversham · PostDec 07, 2015#2712015-12-07T23:54+00:00

bprop wrote:They've already [supposedly] contracted with the only three that they need - SLMPD, StL County, and St. Clair County. Of course anybody can sign a contract. It's the, you know, ensuring the contract is kept that Metro is not able to do. We don't need a whole new layer of infrastructure to accomplish what Metro is already paying for.

We might need it if the status quo isn't working.

bprop · PostDec 08, 2015#2722015-12-08T00:32+00:00

It's not like there's some big black-box mystery as to why the current arrangement just "isn't working." Metro pays these departments and doesn't do any sort of monitoring of how much they get in return. Of the several stories on the topic, none suggests something more complicated than Metro being inept. I would not entrust them with another dime, and certainly not with an entire law enforcement agency.

downtown2007 · PostDec 08, 2015#2732015-12-08T00:55+00:00

So is Metro incompetent or are these agencies taking the money and running? I really don't ever see any cops on the platform or trains.

bprop · PostDec 08, 2015#2742015-12-08T01:05+00:00

Both. Metro's paying it out though - you'd think after having a contractural arrangement for 20+ (??) years they would have tried to account for the money spent or created a contract that forces some kind of equity in services rendered.

The fact that they haven't is just proof that they are complacent. My understanding is that the chief of security is - sorry to be blunt - a very old man who's been at his post for over 35 years and simply can not be bothered to be accountable.

quincunx · PostDec 13, 2015#2752015-12-13T15:24+00:00

Not good.

KSDK - 5 masked suspects attack, rob Navy veteran on MetroLink

A brazen attack on a MetroLink train left a veteran injured. Now, St. Louis County police are searching for the five suspects who they say assaulted and robbed a man.

http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/2015/12/ ... /77243770/

Metro Safety

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