Metro Safety

bprop · PostDec 23, 2015#3012015-12-23T16:24+00:00

DogtownBnR wrote:Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but the ONLY solution to me, is off-duty "REAL" armed police officers on EVERY train and EVERY station. (Even if that means this policy is only enacted after a certain time in the evening)
Once this policy is known, the thugs will stay away, for the most part. I know this will be expensive, but the future of the system is at stake. If riders do not feel safe, you will lose those people that have the means to buy a car or find alternatives. That has to make a good % of the ridership. Obviously, there are people that need to ride Metrolink, but based upon the full parking lots, a good amount of people could drive to work.

I don't think it would be any more expensive than what's done ineffectively now for $11M per year. Given the security budget and what Metro is ostensibly paying for now to the three police agencies, a quick calculation suggests that having about 40-50 officers on the Metro system at any given time is easily achievable.. And that's without spending additional money.

Now one has to keep in mind that the system includes buses, too, but clearly the train is where the forces need to be concentrated.

DogtownBnR · PostDec 23, 2015#3022015-12-23T16:41+00:00

^Yes, the fact that the train's driver is further away from riders on a train and the fact that a criminal can commit a crime and run off the train at a stop, makes riders on the train, much more vulnerable. These facts make the need greater on the train system, versus buses. Riders are much easier targets on trains.

bprop · PostDec 23, 2015#3032015-12-23T18:01+00:00

DogtownBnR wrote:^Yes, the fact that the train's driver is further away from riders on a train and the fact that a criminal can commit a crime and run off the train at a stop, makes riders on the train, much more vulnerable. These facts make the need greater on the train system, versus buses. Riders are much easier targets on trains.

And the drivers are much more engaged.

My favorite bus moment came on the now defunct 220X Watson Rd. Express. People wouldn't read the sign and would board thinking it was the 10 Gravois that goes straight out Gravois Rd. One guy made that mistake this particular day. The 220X made its turn off of Gravois, and he had the usual "Oh sh**" reaction and started pulling the cord wanting to stop. The driver - a very large woman - of course couldn't have cared less; she was keeping to her schedule

The next stop wasn't for at least a half or quarter mile down Heege road. Mr. Wrongbus finally stands up and yells "HEY! Slow down....BEEEEEEIIII*CH." The driver slams on the brakes...sending him careening forward. We come to an abrupt stop and she runs at him screaming "GET OFF MY BUS! GET OFF MY BUS!" while she flails her arms at him. He's covering his head, cowering while making his way out the door. We all had a good laugh at that..but ultimately thankful that many bus drivers don't put up with any sh**.

ajwillikers · PostJan 04, 2016#3042016-01-04T14:26+00:00

Road Metrolink from Skinker-D to Downtown on New Year's Eve afternoon for Star Wars at MX . It was an altogether pleasant experience and nice to see Downtown "bustling." Those moments of "Maybe we are a functioning Urban area on the upswing" good to have.

roger wyoming II · PostJan 04, 2016#3052016-01-04T16:34+00:00

^ didn't take metrolink, but it was great to see downtown hustling.... I just wish I knew how many more residents and workers we need to have downtown so that we can have that on a regular basis and not have to rely on the big conventions.

eee123 · PostJan 14, 2016#3062016-01-14T01:55+00:00

This evening, a couple of real gun-wielding metro cops got on my blue line train at Clayton. Then a pair of city cops with a dog boarded at CWE.

Four cops on one car of one train at one time after never seeing any real law enforcement on metrolink at all in the past.

Maybe we're finally going to get what we're paying for.

urban_dilettante · PostJan 14, 2016#3072016-01-14T04:39+00:00

^ let's hope. my fear is they're just putting on a show to save face until the bad publicity blows over. (The bad publicity being the recent revelation that Metro is paying them sh*t-loads of money to do nothing.)

roger wyoming II · PostJan 14, 2016#3082016-01-14T04:42+00:00

^^ unfortunately that presence probably was related to the shooting around 5:30 apparently aimed at the platform. (on news)

quincunx · PostMar 09, 2016#3092016-03-09T17:41+00:00

StlToday - Stenger seeks to double St. Louis County police presence on MetroLink lines

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crim ... 41164.html

dweebe · PostMar 09, 2016#3102016-03-09T17:50+00:00

quincunx wrote:StlToday - Stenger seeks to double St. Louis County police presence on MetroLink lines

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crim ... 41164.html

This should help. Hopefully this will enable Metro and the City to focus on the madhouses at the DeBalivere and Delmar stations.

CarexCurator · PostMar 09, 2016#3112016-03-09T19:24+00:00

I'm just going to keep saying it. I've been on the MetroLink ten times a week at least for years, and it isn't as bad as everybody seems to think. It is no worse than any other public space in the city of St. Louis. Of the five or six events I've witnessed in recent years worth remembering, all of them were started by stupid white bigots being stupid white bigots. The worst incidents tend to involve members of the "greatest (racist) generation" who think they own the train and yell at other people for things like getting on the train with a bike or listening to music, or whatever. I've seen two minor thefts and several stupid young people (always white) verbally and loudly put in their place after they said or did something really offensive.

You can add more cops to the cops already there, but I'm nonplussed. I'd prefer those gun wielding goons to not be blocking the aisles all the time when I'm trying to get through, but if they'll help you guys ditch your car once a year to go to a game then sure whatever.

I really don't get why people want to live in a police state or why they think some moron from Ballwin with a gun and a sense of empowerment is going to make you safer.

dweebe · PostMar 09, 2016#3122016-03-09T20:14+00:00

CarexCurator wrote:I'm just going to keep saying it. I've been on the MetroLink ten times a week at least for years, and it isn't as bad as everybody seems to think. It is no worse than any other public space in the city of St. Louis. Of the five or six events I've witnessed in recent years worth remembering, all of them were started by stupid white bigots being stupid white bigots. The worst incidents tend to involve members of the "greatest (racist) generation" who think they own the train and yell at other people for things like getting on the train with a bike or listening to music, or whatever. I've seen two minor thefts and several stupid young people (always white) verbally and loudly put in their place after they said or did something really offensive.

You can add more cops to the cops already there, but I'm nonplussed. I'd prefer those gun wielding goons to not be blocking the aisles all the time when I'm trying to get through, but if they'll help you guys ditch your car once a year to go to a game then sure whatever.

I really don't get why people want to live in a police state or why they think some moron from Ballwin with a gun and a sense of empowerment is going to make you safer.

While I agree the problems are always overstated: there are a few problem stations that do need to be addressed and a full time police presence would do a lot of good.

leeharveyawesome · PostMar 09, 2016#3132016-03-09T20:18+00:00

CarexCurator wrote:I'm just going to keep saying it. I've been on the MetroLink ten times a week at least for years, and it isn't as bad as everybody seems to think. It is no worse than any other public space in the city of St. Louis. Of the five or six events I've witnessed in recent years worth remembering, all of them were started by stupid white bigots being stupid white bigots. The worst incidents tend to involve members of the "greatest (racist) generation" who think they own the train and yell at other people for things like getting on the train with a bike or listening to music, or whatever. I've seen two minor thefts and several stupid young people (always white) verbally and loudly put in their place after they said or did something really offensive.

You can add more cops to the cops already there, but I'm nonplussed. I'd prefer those gun wielding goons to not be blocking the aisles all the time when I'm trying to get through, but if they'll help you guys ditch your car once a year to go to a game then sure whatever.

I really don't get why people want to live in a police state or why they think some moron from Ballwin with a gun and a sense of empowerment is going to make you safer.

I took Metrolink 20 times a week for six years. I never really saw anyone do anything too crazy but I have a high tolerance. Or maybe I’ve just forgotten.

But cmon man, this is some bizarre ideological weird sh*t you are claiming. Do you really expect anyone to believe the biggest Metrolink safety issue is a bunch of “white bigots” running around causing trouble? I mean, I'm not saying there's never been a "white bigot" on the Metrolink. Of course there's been a white bigot on Metrolink because there are bigots of every color on the Metrolink. But cmon man.

Cmon man, seriously. You’re losing credibility here.

Nobody is buying this. Cmon man.

Is anyone willing to back up what CxC is saying? Anyone?

dweebe · PostMar 09, 2016#3142016-03-09T20:30+00:00

Do I want stations to look like this?

Heck no.

But it would be nice if the Delmar and DeBalivere stations had full time police and not the Securitas people who could give one (bleep) as to what's going on. I sometimes have to transfer at Delmar at around 10pm at night to the 16 bus and it gets pretty crazy there.

framer · PostMar 09, 2016#3152016-03-09T20:45+00:00

University City Mayor Shelley Welsch posted this on Nextdoor, relating to some recent carjackings and break-ins (I hope I'm not violating any rules by re-posting this here):

...We believe these are individuals between the age of 14-17 and possibly live in E. St. Louis. Their main activity is stealing from cars and looking for keys to steal the car. We also believe Metro has been their transportation to University City, St. Louis, etc. We have stepped up patrols and the monitoring of Metro stations in University City...

moorlander · PostMar 09, 2016#3162016-03-09T21:28+00:00

Not Good. This is what anti MetroLink people feed on - Criminals who take Metrolink to their neighborhood to commit crimes.

Randy · PostMar 09, 2016#3172016-03-09T21:41+00:00

Now would be a good time to put pressure on Metro to take some responsibility for enforcing/auditing/tracking their contracts with STL County, STL City, and St. Clair County. There is no way there are 42 uniformed officers actively patrolling the system on a regular basis.

CarexCurator · PostMar 09, 2016#3182016-03-09T21:45+00:00

leeharveyawesome wrote:But cmon man, this is some bizarre ideological weird sh*t you are claiming. Do you really expect anyone to believe the biggest Metrolink safety issue is a bunch of “white bigots” running around causing trouble?

No the biggest problems are the ones that make the news. I personally never happened to be on the train at those times.

Maybe I have a high tolerance for weirdness as you say, but these anecdotes are seriously the only things that have made me tense in my years of riding the train. I'm not saying a bunch of white bigots are running around, the individuals that bothered me were sitting around of course taking up two seats. In my memory, those were the craziest and most violent events I personally witnessed, and I say this only to stress that popular fears about public transportation in St. Louis are a bit exaggerated. Somebody getting their phone snatched just before the doors close is not violent. Teenage kids play punching each other in the shoulders is not a big deal. Creepy guy hitting on a girl until she gets up and leaves is annoying, and if it goes too far someone will step in. The guy with the three cards and the people betting on them are not a safety threat. And so on. Fat a**holes screaming insults at people to provoke violence is a problem by comparison.

leeharveyawesome wrote: Cmon man, seriously. You’re losing credibility here.

Nobody is buying this. Cmon man.

I'm not selling anything. You took the train 20 times a week for six years. That's more than 6000 train rides. I bet the number of events where you wish police were present could be counted on your hands. Since about the year 2000 to 2015, I cannot estimate how many times I've been on the train, but I can certainly recall only a few events of any real concern. And I've been stranded at the Delmar station after service hours many times. The worst that happened to me at the Delmar station was some guy around 2005 trying to sell me mystery drugs wrapped in foil. I politely declined, and he moved on. Maybe late 2006, some guy tried to commit suicide by train at the Wellston station, but the driver prevented it and called the police. That's it man. I just don't think the MetroLink is that dangerous.

I've seen some terrifying things on buses, but the train is tame.

bprop · PostMar 09, 2016#3192016-03-09T23:05+00:00

leeharveyawesome wrote:
CarexCurator wrote:I'm just going to keep saying it. I've been on the MetroLink ten times a week at least for years, and it isn't as bad as everybody seems to think. It is no worse than any other public space in the city of St. Louis. Of the five or six events I've witnessed in recent years worth remembering, all of them were started by stupid white bigots being stupid white bigots. The worst incidents tend to involve members of the "greatest (racist) generation" who think they own the train and yell at other people for things like getting on the train with a bike or listening to music, or whatever. I've seen two minor thefts and several stupid young people (always white) verbally and loudly put in their place after they said or did something really offensive.

You can add more cops to the cops already there, but I'm nonplussed. I'd prefer those gun wielding goons to not be blocking the aisles all the time when I'm trying to get through, but if they'll help you guys ditch your car once a year to go to a game then sure whatever.

I really don't get why people want to live in a police state or why they think some moron from Ballwin with a gun and a sense of empowerment is going to make you safer.
I took Metrolink 20 times a week for six years. I never really saw anyone do anything too crazy but I have a high tolerance. Or maybe I’ve just forgotten.

But cmon man, this is some bizarre ideological weird sh*t you are claiming. Do you really expect anyone to believe the biggest Metrolink safety issue is a bunch of “white bigots” running around causing trouble? I mean, I'm not saying there's never been a "white bigot" on the Metrolink. Of course there's been a white bigot on Metrolink because there are bigots of every color on the Metrolink. But cmon man.

Cmon man, seriously. You’re losing credibility here.

Nobody is buying this. Cmon man.

Is anyone willing to back up what CxC is saying? Anyone?

No. I've ridden daily for almost 20 years and it just doesn't ring true. Not in the past five years or so. My tolerance is likewise high - in fact, I've gotten bruised and even bloodied trying to help keep order more times than I can count. But it's gotten very, very bad, particularly in the early evening and especially between Union Station and Forest Park. Almost like complete lawlessness at times.

I can't fathom lumping in theft, getting a phone "snatched" (

), and sexual harassment as "minor"

That just doesn't happen in normal society. A few months ago a guy exposed himself to a woman riding solo in a car during early morning rush. She hysterically cried until she got off at CWE - I would not tell her it was just a quality of life issue that she should just tolerate.

And to be clear - about 8 rides out of 10 or noneventful. But the fact that 2 out of 10 are not adds up to a lot more than just a "nuisance" in my book.

olvidarte · PostMar 09, 2016#3202016-03-09T23:27+00:00

No the biggest problems are the ones that make the news. I personally never happened to be on the train at those times.

I have a hard time with this argument. Even though you personally have never witnessed anything happen on the train doesn't mean some bad stuff isn't going on. It's kind of like people saying climate change isn't happening because it still snows where they are.

downtown2007 · PostMar 09, 2016#3212016-03-09T23:53+00:00

bprop wrote:
leeharveyawesome wrote:
CarexCurator wrote:I'm just going to keep saying it. I've been on the MetroLink ten times a week at least for years, and it isn't as bad as everybody seems to think. It is no worse than any other public space in the city of St. Louis. Of the five or six events I've witnessed in recent years worth remembering, all of them were started by stupid white bigots being stupid white bigots. The worst incidents tend to involve members of the "greatest (racist) generation" who think they own the train and yell at other people for things like getting on the train with a bike or listening to music, or whatever. I've seen two minor thefts and several stupid young people (always white) verbally and loudly put in their place after they said or did something really offensive.

You can add more cops to the cops already there, but I'm nonplussed. I'd prefer those gun wielding goons to not be blocking the aisles all the time when I'm trying to get through, but if they'll help you guys ditch your car once a year to go to a game then sure whatever.

I really don't get why people want to live in a police state or why they think some moron from Ballwin with a gun and a sense of empowerment is going to make you safer.
I took Metrolink 20 times a week for six years. I never really saw anyone do anything too crazy but I have a high tolerance. Or maybe I’ve just forgotten.

But cmon man, this is some bizarre ideological weird sh*t you are claiming. Do you really expect anyone to believe the biggest Metrolink safety issue is a bunch of “white bigots” running around causing trouble? I mean, I'm not saying there's never been a "white bigot" on the Metrolink. Of course there's been a white bigot on Metrolink because there are bigots of every color on the Metrolink. But cmon man.

Cmon man, seriously. You’re losing credibility here.

Nobody is buying this. Cmon man.

Is anyone willing to back up what CxC is saying? Anyone?
No. I've ridden daily for almost 20 years and it just doesn't ring true. Not in the past five years or so. My tolerance is likewise high - in fact, I've gotten bruised and even bloodied trying to help keep order more times than I can count. But it's gotten very, very bad, particularly in the early evening and especially between Union Station and Forest Park. Almost like complete lawlessness at times.

I can't fathom lumping in theft, getting a phone "snatched" ( ), and sexual harassment as "minor" That just doesn't happen in normal society. A few months ago a guy exposed himself to a woman riding solo in a car during early morning rush. She hysterically cried until she got off at CWE - I would not tell her it was just a quality of life issue that she should just tolerate.

And to be clear - about 8 rides out of 10 or noneventful. But the fact that 2 out of 10 are not adds up to a lot more than just a "nuisance" in my book.

What times in the evening?

Ebsy · PostMar 09, 2016#3222016-03-09T23:54+00:00

Bottom line, I think we can all agree that the trains need more actual police and fewer overweight security guards.

bprop · PostMar 10, 2016#3232016-03-10T00:11+00:00

downtown2007 wrote:
What times in the evening?

Early rush hour (maybe better described as late afternoon) anywhere from 3:30 through 5:15pm is when I usually ride and have seen it all.

billikens&bricks · PostMar 10, 2016#3242016-03-10T00:44+00:00

Someone enlighten me...what is the argument against turnstiles? Too expensive? Not cost effective?

bprop · PostMar 10, 2016#3252016-03-10T00:55+00:00

billikens&bricks wrote:Someone enlighten me...what is the argument against turnstiles? Too expensive? Not cost effective?

correct

According to a U of Maryland study (I think?) the simple payback period from gaining otherwise lost fare revenue would be something like 20 years. It doesn't take into account the peace of mind factor but it also doesn't take into account things like actually enforcing the turnstiles against doubling up and hopping the fence. Metro claims fare evasion is in the low, low single digits.

Metro Safety

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