it's ridiculous that we have to put up signs that say"No Littering"
Thanks for stating the obvious..
Thanks for stating the obvious..
Ya, I remember that one now. It was about all types of pollution though if I recall correctly. The guy crying definitely had an impact.u2acro wrote:What? You don't remember the big native american looking around at all the litter on the ground and in the water, and then the camera got closer and closer until it focused on his face, and then you saw the single tear rolling down his cheek? Classic! I remember it growing up in the '80s.
Yes, I would, yet...blueeyes wrote:...wouldn't you think that they'd put two and two together and say, "I don't wanna live like this", or "This ain't right"? Some simple things are within their power (like picking up trash or refraining from littering) that would improve their surroundings and their quality of life.
Sure there is a lot of that. It is sort of an anti-Uncle Tom mentality. It's the attitude that says I'm going to do the opposite of whatever "your society" tells me I should do, no matter how self-destructive that action is. And I think it is pretty obvious that that attitude inevitably leads to crime.urban_dilettante wrote:i think to some extent it's an our culture vs. their culture mindset.Which is what, in your opinion?
Most actions are harmless, people just go out of their way to do things to irritate you or make you uncomfortable, such as sitting on the Metro station steps. But of course, everyone knows that such actions are also often done with the sole intent of getting a reaction out of you, a look or a mutter, which is the only excuse they need to stomp you into a bloody pulp, or worse.
Another example; I couldn't even guess how many times I've driven down a street in the city, and someone will be walking across the street in front of me, often stepping into my path rather than waiting for me to pass, or slowing down when they see me coming, to make me stop and wait for them to cross. And I'm not talking about an intersection here either. Or, someone will be walking down the middle of the street, only to slow down and make no move to get out of the way, or actually moving to block my path, forcing me to either run over them or come to a full stop and wait until they decide to let me pass.
[rant]Seriously, what is up with the whole damn I'm-gonna-walk-down-the-middle-of-the-street thing anyway?!? I see old guys, women, teenagers, and groups of little kids walking down the middle of the street all the time - busy street, late at night, it doesn't matter - often wearing dark clothing. It seems like the only people you ever see using the sidewalk in certain neighborhoods are white people walking their dogs. Is there something wrong with the sidewalk that I don't know about? Is this a gang avoidance tactic, or do these people just have a death wish?[/rant]
I have also had people walk up to a drive-thru ATM, right in front of me as I'm pulling up to use it. No "Excuse me", no hand gestures, or any acknowledgment of my existence other than a long stare after they were done using the ATM. The stare said, "Go ahead and honk or say something white boy, I dare you." One of these people was a teenage girl!
I could go on and on, and, of course, much of the filling-loosening "music" emitting from vehicles at all hours is done with the express intent of annoying people. Maybe some of the littering is part of that I'm-gonna-do-everything-I-can-to-annoy-you attitude, but, I've seen people doing it many, many times when they don't think anyone is watching, and they are just as likely to do it in the JVL as the CWE. I think it mostly stems from a general lack of any values of respect, cleanliness, etc. ever being instilled in them.
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Matt wrote:I may be convinced that conceal carry is a great idea.
Based on the aggregate of posts, I'm afraid that would result in jlblues shooting someone for littering.
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Matt wrote:I may be convinced that conceal carry is a great idea.
Do you need something to happen to you to agree with conceal carry? Conceal carry is a great idea.
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The helicopter again is flying low tonight, with the searchlight scanning Delmar and the Metrolink area, I presume that the police are tracking and chasing down thugs.
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MattnSTL wrote: I am always amazed at the amount of satellite dish's on what would appear to be low income apartments.
Culture of poverty mate.
That, and Charter won't dare come out there for service. They have satellite because it's self-install and maintenance. If Direct TV had to do a house call in North STL? They'd tell you to go fornicate yourself.
It's refreshing though, that crime has come to public transport in STL. That's the way it is in other areas, so it should be the same with us. Safe public transport stations? Who's ever heard of such a thing? You don't get it in Boston, NY, Chicago - so hey, we're just like those cities we're trying to emulate eh?
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migueltejada wrote:MattnSTL wrote: I am always amazed at the amount of satellite dish's on what would appear to be low income apartments.
Culture of poverty mate.
That, and Charter won't dare come out there for service. They have satellite because it's self-install and maintenance. If Direct TV had to do a house call in North STL? They'd tell you to go fornicate yourself.
It's refreshing though, that crime has come to public transport in STL. That's the way it is in other areas, so it should be the same with us. Safe public transport stations? Who's ever heard of such a thing? You don't get it in Boston, NY, Chicago - so hey, we're just like those cities we're trying to emulate eh?
I lived in North City and they came and installed DirecTV. Crap spewing once again from codascorum's lips. Keep it comin!!
migueltejada wrote:MattnSTL wrote: I am always amazed at the amount of satellite dish's on what would appear to be low income apartments.
Culture of poverty mate.
That, and Charter won't dare come out there for service. They have satellite because it's self-install and maintenance. If Direct TV had to do a house call in North STL? They'd tell you to go fornicate yourself.
It's refreshing though, that crime has come to public transport in STL. That's the way it is in other areas, so it should be the same with us. Safe public transport stations? Who's ever heard of such a thing? You don't get it in Boston, NY, Chicago - so hey, we're just like those cities we're trying to emulate eh?
What are you talking about? I'm in NY pretty frequently, and the vast majority of subway stations are more than safe. Same goes for DC, BOS, CHI, SF/OAK, etc.
JuiceInDogtown wrote:Matt wrote:I may be convinced that conceal carry is a great idea.
Do you need something to happen to you to agree with conceal carry? Conceal carry is a great idea.
Sorry. I wouldn't date a guy, live with a guy or marry a guy who carried. It's just not happening.
No offense.
I agree and have never felt the slightest uncomfortable when riding transit in other much larger cities.
As we all know, St. Louis has some serious issues among youth and young men. I don't know of any city other than maybe Detroit and Atlanta that even come close to our problem.
When the problem rises to the point of gangs of thugs making random, pointless attacks in public places on complete strangers, I'll consider conceal carry.
As I've mentioned many times before, the problems with middle-school boys acting out A Clockwork Orange in some near south side neighborhoods is extremely serious. The random crime and attacks against strangers are always pointless and brazen.
As we all know, St. Louis has some serious issues among youth and young men. I don't know of any city other than maybe Detroit and Atlanta that even come close to our problem.
When the problem rises to the point of gangs of thugs making random, pointless attacks in public places on complete strangers, I'll consider conceal carry.
As I've mentioned many times before, the problems with middle-school boys acting out A Clockwork Orange in some near south side neighborhoods is extremely serious. The random crime and attacks against strangers are always pointless and brazen.
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Just becuase the helicopter was out last, that doesn't necessarily mean something was going down. It could just be a show of force to discourage potential mischief.
DirecTV may not have a no-north-StL policy, but in my experience they don't mind denying you service. I tried to get DTV at my third-floor condo. I told them specifically I was on the third floor. They showed up with a small ladder, couldn't get on the roof to put the HD dish up there, and said they'd have to come back a week later with the bigger ladder. So I meet them a week later and they say the tallest ladder they have won't reach. (I find this absurd, given that one of the most common housing types in this town is the 3-story 6-family).
I called a Dish Network guy and he had me ready to roll in 60 minutes.
DirecTV may not have a no-north-StL policy, but in my experience they don't mind denying you service. I tried to get DTV at my third-floor condo. I told them specifically I was on the third floor. They showed up with a small ladder, couldn't get on the roof to put the HD dish up there, and said they'd have to come back a week later with the bigger ladder. So I meet them a week later and they say the tallest ladder they have won't reach. (I find this absurd, given that one of the most common housing types in this town is the 3-story 6-family).
I called a Dish Network guy and he had me ready to roll in 60 minutes.
throatybeard wrote:Just becuase the helicopter was out last, that doesn't necessarily mean something was going down. It could just be a show of force to discourage potential mischief.
DirecTV may not have a no-north-StL policy, but in my experience they don't mind denying you service. I tried to get DTV at my third-floor condo. I told them specifically I was on the third floor. They showed up with a small ladder, couldn't get on the roof to put the HD dish up there, and said they'd have to come back a week later with the bigger ladder. So I meet them a week later and they say the tallest ladder they have won't reach. (I find this absurd, given that one of the most common housing types in this town is the 3-story 6-family).
I called a Dish Network guy and he had me ready to roll in 60 minutes.
A lot of those independent contractors that work for DirecTV also work or Dish. It's all just a question of who shows up at your door. I've heard the reverse of your story: Dish installer says no way. DirecTV says no problem.
I don't believe that problem is unique to cities like St. Louis, Detroit, and Atlanta. It is not that there is some unique demographic profile of that segment of our population that brings out the thuggery, rather it is the overall communities' reaction, or lack thereof, to the thuggery that is unique.Matt wrote:As we all know, St. Louis has some serious issues among youth and young men. I don't know of any city other than maybe Detroit and Atlanta that even come close to our problem.
Certainly part of our community's inability to deal with the problem is the fractured nature of our region. But there also seems to be a general reticence in addressing the problem that is common to the cities you mentioned. We all know how the NYPD, LAPD, and CPD would deal with such a situation - and I am not saying that that is the answer - but we seem to be at the opposite extreme.
What St. Louis, Detroit, Atlanta, Baltimore, and other cities that always seem to be at the top of the crime lists have in common, is a lack of diversity. All of their populations are by and large some combination of white and black. There aren't many Latino or Asian gangs in any of these cities. If you address the issue in a more diverse city such as Chicago, it is the establishment against criminals, but whenever a politician attempts to address the issue in the cities mentioned - whatever his race - it immediately becomes an issue of the establishment versus oppressed young black men. This of course attracts national media attention - along with the likes of Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and the ACLU. This is press that no city wants. So, the issue is not addressed and the problem continues to fester...
See any similarities with the homeless issue?
I agree and have never felt the slightest uncomfortable when riding transit in other much larger cities.
As we all know, St. Louis has some serious issues among youth and young men. I don't know of any city other than maybe Detroit and Atlanta that even come close to our problem.
When the problem rises to the point of gangs of thugs making random, pointless attacks in public places on complete strangers, I'll consider conceal carry.
What clockwork orangish crimes are you referring to? That movie ruined me for life[/quote]
As we all know, St. Louis has some serious issues among youth and young men. I don't know of any city other than maybe Detroit and Atlanta that even come close to our problem.
When the problem rises to the point of gangs of thugs making random, pointless attacks in public places on complete strangers, I'll consider conceal carry.
As I've mentioned many times before, the problems with middle-school boys acting out A Clockwork Orange in some near south side neighborhoods is extremely serious. The random crime and attacks against strangers are always pointless and brazen.
What clockwork orangish crimes are you referring to? That movie ruined me for life[/quote]
- I agree and have never felt the slightest uncomfortable when riding transit in other much larger cities.
As we all know, St. Louis has some serious issues among youth and young men. I don't know of any city other than maybe Detroit and Atlanta that even come close to our problem.
I truly do not believe that your perception that this is a problem unique to St. Louis. There are incidents daily on major transit systems across this county. To make the statement that St. Louis's current issues are unique in the nation except Detroit and Atlanta does not bear up to the facts in other cities.
Security issues are common in every single city that has a major rail system. Every single city that has proof of payment has a large contingent of the riding and non riding public that think the transit system is being taken to the cleaner and the lack of a barrier system contributes to rampant criminal behavior. But every single city with barrier systems also have security issues and problems with people who do not pay.
I have had the opportunity to read transit police and security reports from LA, Portland, Sacramento, Baltimore, Washington, Miami, Dart and Houton. There are daily incidents and issues of crime. These reports mention assaults, gangs of kids swearing, threatening, taunting both on trains and Stations.
These are the reported cases but over any day there a many many other incidents, threats and problems on rail systems. that threaten or make somone uncomfortable. This happens everywhere there are trains, young peoole and heavy ridership. What may not be obvious is there similar incidents of threats, taunts in all sorts of institutions. These include Mills Mall, St. Clair Square, Mall of America in Minneapolis, Pearl Street in Boulder Colorado. My point is that the incidents occur everywhere ...not just St.Louis
The fact that these are not unique does not make the problem any less significant. It does not absolve Metro from adapting and responding to the problems.
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The U City police seem to have a brand-new paddy wagon parked on the Loop tonight across from Commerce Bank, with a squad car 50 feet behind, and a couple of officers ready, if need be, to load it. 
A good idea to collect the worst of a mob of rude offenders, rather than driving them into the city.
A good idea to collect the worst of a mob of rude offenders, rather than driving them into the city.My understanding is that the transit system in the Twin Cities has the third largest police force in the region...next to the sizes of those of Minneapolis and St. Paul. Providing security has to be a major component of the operating costs of major transit systems in large metro areas these days.
This is not unique to STL, as many other major cities have serious crime issues on and around their public transportation stops. It is where people gather, thus more opportunity. Just to name a few off the top of my head, Chicago has had several murders just this summer at EL stations, downtown and in the "safe" near north side. Portland's newspaper has reports of serious crime on their light rail almost monthly, and most of that crime has actually taken place on the trains themselves. It is something every city has to deal with, but that doesn't mean we should take it lightly. Safety will be the only thing that encourages more riders and thus more expansion of Metrolink.
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I take the metro everyday. Never had a problem, however, I am absolutley prepared to lay a serious beatdown on any mfer who steps up.
Ladies and gentleman, say hello to Travis Bickle.
Additionally, I always surrender a seat to children and the elderly. And girls.
Ladies and gentleman, say hello to Travis Bickle.
Additionally, I always surrender a seat to children and the elderly. And girls.
Me either.u2acro wrote:Sorry. I wouldn't date a guy, live with a guy or marry a guy who carried. It's just not happening.
My understanding is that the transit system in the Twin Cities has the third largest police force in the region...next to the sizes of those of Minneapolis and St. Paul. Providing security has to be a major component of the operating costs of major transit systems in large metro areas these days.
Fully allocated of Metrolink is $63 million annually. Total annual security costs are approximately $10 million. I would say that is a fairly high proportion of total expenses. Its more costly than paying the train operators including extra board (back drivers).
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u2acro wrote:JuiceInDogtown wrote:Matt wrote:I may be convinced that conceal carry is a great idea.
Do you need something to happen to you to agree with conceal carry? Conceal carry is a great idea.
Sorry. I wouldn't date a guy, live with a guy or marry a guy who carried. It's just not happening.
No offense.
Oh, no worries. I wouldn't date a girl, live with a girl or marry a girl who wouldn't. Take offense (don't care, love
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When I eventually fall in love, I don't think it'll matter to me if he carries one or not.
In fact, considering I live in a town of 400 with a well-meaning but not necessarily well-equipped police department, having a gun around might be good just in case.
In fact, considering I live in a town of 400 with a well-meaning but not necessarily well-equipped police department, having a gun around might be good just in case.
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Matt wrote:I agree and have never felt the slightest uncomfortable when riding transit in other much larger cities.
When the problem rises to the point of gangs of thugs making random, pointless attacks in public places on complete strangers, I'll consider conceal carry.
As I've mentioned many times before, the problems with middle-school boys acting out A Clockwork Orange in some near south side neighborhoods is extremely serious. The random crime and attacks against strangers are always pointless and brazen.
Do you ride after midnight in "those" areas? I bet not. Stand on the platform in (insert minority area here) after midnight and we'll see how safe people feel.
And since when does adding a gun to the mix make people safer? It only makes you FEEL safer. Trigger happy society - you're just as likely to shoot yourself in a panic.
And the last time I was in ESTL (circa 2004), the residents themselves told me verbatim that Charter wouldn't come to service their properties, and that Dish Network required them to bring their equipment in for service. Maybe the practice has changed. In any case - WHY ARE POOR PEOPLE PAYING $40 A MONTH (OR MORE) FOR A LUXURY THEY DON'T NEED AND CAN'T AFFORD?