urbanSTL

^ No, I hadn't posted, but it just so happens that "Who are you trying to convince..Me? Or yourself?" happens to be one of my favorite sayings.



Of course you are always going to get the typical responses "I've noticed more and more of "these" kind of people around lately" or something.



I think I hear more racist things living in St. Louis than I did when I lived in an all white rural town...The difference is, the people in the rural town would come right out and say it, where many people here say it in a roundabout way.



Today I was working with 3 college student interns that I partially supervise when they started talking about the "Niggar Family" (yes, that's the N word, but with an a instead of an e) skit on Chapelle's Show. It amazed me at how all 3 of the white suburbanite kids all freely used the word "Niggar" when telling the story. Even though it is completely satirical, and the skit is hilarious, I still tell the story as "A white family with the N word as their last name."





Oh, and sorry everyone; back on topic now.

well since you're in this thread now, what do you think of the plainclothes on metrolink? Good idea bad idea? They had a press conference announcing this as their course of action.

I think it's a good idea. Wasn't/isn't the US Marshals doing something similar after 9/11? They would randomly put a plainclothes, armed Marshal on flights just in case.



I think a bigger police presence overall would be great. I think if they have the ghetto bird swooping over all day and night with their spotlight on would make me feel like I lived in LA...but I guess whatever they think would work.

Sorry to get off-topic.



But I live in a town of 400 that is probably 99.5% white. In High School I would hear all kinds of slurs, though some of it may just be kids trying to shock people. There was no political correctness at all (though in some places there's too much). While I don't think anyone in my town would hurt a minority, they would need thick skin, especially in school. People just said what they thought.



I'm graduated now, so I don't really hear it much now (I'm doing online courses, about the only social place I go is church). But my sister was in college at SEMO and she said the kids there would hang out with all kinds of races, but a lot of them did not think interracial dating was okay.



I do think small town rural racism and urban racism are different. Rural racism often comes from ignorance. That doesn't make it okay or any less offensive, but sometimes people just don't know any better, though with the spread of black television and internet I think younger generations, even in these towns, are more knowledgable about other races. I've never had any experience with urban racism, since I've never lived in a city. But you would think that people in cities would tolerate each other better since they have to. And if you spend time around other races, perhaps stereotypes start to peel off and people can see each other as people, not races. But at the same time, sometimes living so close to other people can cause stress, especially if the area is economically depressed.



I'm a little afraid for some kids who go to my school. If they ever go to a real city, they'd better learn really quick to control their tongue. Or they could get in some trouble.

what is the issue here? I don't think anyone said anything racist. From what I do know, however, is that every crime that I've heard of in the news regarding Metro Link and the recent deal at Pi in the Loop has been committed by young black males. dispersing such groups of unruly juveniles together is fine with me. if that's the "profile" of these criminals, then so be it. let's throw these guys in jail.

JCity wrote:what is the issue here? I don't think anyone said anything racist. From what I do know, however, is that every crime that I've heard of in the news regarding Metro Link and the recent deal at Pi in the Loop has been committed by young black males.

Unfortunately, a lot of people believe that simply making that observation is racist.

dweebe wrote:Not directly related to Metrolink, but I thought I should share this.



Had a nice day Saturday walking up to the Delmar Loop, walking around and shopping. We bought some stuff, had lunch and started heading home. As we were walking down the Delmar in front of the futon place, some a**hole in a Ford Explorer threw a beer bottle that landed about 3 feet from us and another couple. The dude that threw the beer bottle just laughed as they drove away.



The trash of St. Louis are doing their best to trash this place.

punishment for that should be he has to wipe his own arse with the broken shards of glass. Bet that would be the last bottle of beer he tosses at someone minding their own business.



seriously, we need to nip this crap in the bud. If we need to toss a net around these thugs and ship them off to boot camp where they learn some manners and how to act in a civilized society so be it.

I was behind someone at a red light when they tossed out a whole bunch of fast food wrappers. I immediately leaned on my horn and then threw my hands up in the air when I saw it. The car's occupants started looking around and then at each other as if to say, "what did we do?". Do people actually like living in squalor?

blueeyes wrote:I was behind someone at a red light when they tossed out a whole bunch of fast food wrappers. I immediately leaned on my horn and then threw my hands up in the air when I saw it. The car's occupants started looking around and then at each other as if to say, "what did we do?".

Those cops were probably thinking they should arrest the guy behind them for disturbing the peace

blueeyes wrote:I was behind someone at a red light when they tossed out a whole bunch of fast food wrappers. I immediately leaned on my horn and then threw my hands up in the air when I saw it. The car's occupants started looking around and then at each other as if to say, "what did we do?". Do people actually like living in squalor?

They very likely had no idea what you were honking about. When you are done with something, you throw it on the ground. It's not a lack of respect, it's not laziness, and it's not squalor, it's just the way it is. Nobody has ever told them otherwise.



I've had this conversation before with some of the likely offenders:



Me: Don't do that!

Kid: *looking puzzled* What?

Me: Throw that garbage on the ground.

Kid: Huh? Why?

Me: Because. How'd you like it if someone threw trash in your yard?

Kid: *looking puzzled again* Dey do!

i confronted a couple of thug-kids in benton park a while back:



me: "there's a garbage can right there."



kid: "i know."



some of them know exactly what they're doing.

urban_dilettante wrote:i confronted a couple of thug-kids in benton park a while back:



me: "there's a garbage can right there."



kid: "i know."



some of them know exactly what they're doing.

Which is what, in your opinion?

migueltejada wrote:

jlblues wrote:It's not a lack of respect, it's not laziness, and it's not squalor, it's just the way it is. Nobody has ever told them otherwise.

They've never seen TV ads saying don't litter? Nothing about "climate change" and that stuff at school? I'm pretty sure BET runs a PSA on it at least once a month between rap videos and...rap...videos....



Stop making excuses for them. People know by now littering is wrong, unless they've been living in a cave for the last 50 years. It was true on the Simpsons, and it's true now -



Some people are just jerks.

I don't think I've ever seen a TV ad that says, "Don't Litter". I know that only I can prevent forest fires (which was a tremendous amount of responsibility for a kid), and I know about Bill on Capitol Hill, but I don't remember anything about littering.



And climate change at school? Are you serious? I'm sure their teachers and school administrators would be happy if these kids were motivated enough to learn to read the EXIT signs. And you want to teach them about climate change?



And I'm hardly making excuses...I'm just saying that you are talking about something that you and your society value, and expecting someone from a different culture to have the same values. It is like trying to explain democracy and freedom of speech to a Muslim fundamentalist, or the idea of a 'traditional family' to a polygamist. Try to explain Manhattan to a Maasai tribesman, or the desert to an Inuit, it just isn't going to compute.

migueltejada wrote:

jlblues wrote:It's not a lack of respect, it's not laziness, and it's not squalor, it's just the way it is. Nobody has ever told them otherwise.

They've never seen TV ads saying don't litter? Nothing about "climate change" and that stuff at school? I'm pretty sure BET runs a PSA on it at least once a month between rap videos and...rap...videos....



Stop making excuses for them. People know by now littering is wrong, unless they've been living in a cave for the last 50 years. It was true on the Simpsons, and it's true now -



Some people are just jerks.

I've met many city kids who don't even own a television or know how to use a computer for that matter and may just have little to no access to these types of amenities. I don't think problems with crime in the urban areas are so black/white....this is a very gray issue! People like to complain about crime and poverty, but nobody does anything about it or even acknowledges how these things originally came about and how to solve the problem at the root. It is easy to blame BET or the hiphop culture (although these promised existed way before then), but it would probably be more logical to blame white flight and economic disinvestment, which caused an eroded tax base and eventually a failing school district and I think it is pretty evident that lack of education = poverty and poverty = crime. The rules have never changed in that respect. Poverty is a fact of capitalism, lower income jobs are just that....you might just need a couple just to see over the poverty line.

goat314 wrote:I've met many city kids who don't even own a television or know how to use a computer for that matter and may just have little to no access to these types of amenities. I don't think problems with crime in the urban areas are so black/white....this is a very gray issue!

I am pretty sure there is not one single person in this country that doesn't own a TV simply because they can't afford it. Now they may have had their TV stolen so many times that they don't bother anymore, but that doesn't mean they can't afford one. I can go to a flea market right now and buy a working TV for less than the price of a bucket of KFC.



Disadvantaged urban kids don't watch TV anymore, hell few kids of any class watch TV anymore. They may play games on it, and watch movies on it, but they don't watch television programming on it.

jlblues wrote:
I am pretty sure there is not one single person in this country that doesn't own a TV simply because they can't afford it.

You would be surprised. And this is speaking from personal experience.

^K well, if things are really that tight Matt, I've got a spare TV I can give ya.



In any case, I'll take your word for it, but at one time in my life, I painted subsidized housing, exterior and interior. The units were occupied. I painted a unit a day, and I didn't see a single unit that entire summer that didn't have at least one TV in every other room. I'd say about 3/4 of the TVs were on too, whether anyone was in the room or not.



I suppose that there are a lot of people in Appalachia that don't have a TV, but that's probably more a case of not being able to afford, or not having access to, electricity.

jlblues wrote:^K well, if things are really that tight Matt, I've got a spare TV I can give ya.



In any case, I'll take your word for it, but at one time in my life, I painted subsidized housing, exterior and interior. The units were occupied. I painted a unit a day, and I didn't see a single unit that entire summer that didn't have at least one TV in every other room. I'd say about 3/4 of the TVs were on too, whether anyone was in the room or not.

Funny.



I'm not saying that there is a widespread lack of tv's. I'm saying that there really are people without them that can't afford them. With that said, I am always amazed at the amount of satellite dish's on what would appear to be low income apartments.

jlblues wrote:

goat314 wrote:I've met many city kids who don't even own a television or know how to use a computer for that matter and may just have little to no access to these types of amenities. I don't think problems with crime in the urban areas are so black/white....this is a very gray issue!

I am pretty sure there is not one single person in this country that doesn't own a TV simply because they can't afford it. Now they may have had their TV stolen so many times that they don't bother anymore, but that doesn't mean they can't afford one. I can go to a flea market right now and buy a working TV for less than the price of a bucket of KFC.



Disadvantaged urban kids don't watch TV anymore, hell few kids of any class watch TV anymore. They may play games on it, and watch movies on it, but they don't watch television programming on it.

Very true that most people have televisions, but I didn't make that point....I said I've met many people that didn't have access to things that middle class and upper class people take for granted like electronic luxuries (although I would argue that a computer is a necessity these days). I think most St. Louisans would be surprised at some of the poverty you see driving deep into some of those inner city neighborhoods. Ay some of those neighborhoods are rough from the outside, been down North Florissant Ave lately.

jlblues wrote:I don't think I've ever seen a TV ad that says, "Don't Litter". I know that only I can prevent forest fires (which was a tremendous amount of responsibility for a kid), and I know about Bill on Capitol Hill, but I don't remember anything about littering.

What? You don't remember the big native american looking around at all the litter on the ground and in the water, and then the camera got closer and closer until it focused on his face, and then you saw the single tear rolling down his cheek? Classic! I remember it growing up in the '80s.

jlblues wrote:It's not a lack of respect, it's not laziness, and it's not squalor, it's just the way it is. Nobody has ever told them otherwise.

I think these punks are capable of learning things without being explicitly told. They figure out how to use a cell phone, how to drive, play video games, etc. So, if their unemployed arse is chillin' on their stoop that looks out onto an overgrown yard with a tireless car parked on a trash-strewn street and an abandoned building in the distance, wouldn't you think that they'd put two and two together and say, "I don't wanna live like this", or "This ain't right"? Some simple things are within their power (like picking up trash or refraining from littering) that would improve their surroundings and their quality of life.

^ agreed, blueeyes. if you walk around outside at all your going to see garbage cans. and most likely you'll see people throw garbage into garbage cans. and probably you'll see a "No Littering" sign here and there. 2 + 2 ... and that's if you don't get the message anywhere else, e.g. television, parents, school, etc. if you can master a cell phone you can master a garbage can.



and to answer your question, jblues:

Which is what, in your opinion?

i think to some extent it's an our culture vs. their culture mindset.