urbanSTL

trent wrote:

migueltejada wrote:

Cobblestone wrote:Update on this project from this November's Sauce Magazine:

“We’re making soul food sexy,” said Pat Shannon, who is consulting on restaurant management for the star-studded venture"

Yeah, cause there's no way to make the fat people who eat that kind of stuff sexy! Nothing gets me hornier than a 380lb pear shaped waddler in sansabelt slacks and a Marshall Faulk Jersey from 1999.



BTW, Darius Miles and Larry Huges realize that no one in this town gives a rats ass about the NBA right? I mean, heck, most people probably have forgotten Huges even played at SLU. Basketball is lower on the St. Louis radar than air hockey.

Hello uninformed post of the day. St. Louis is a GREAT basketball city. The Billikens are gonna sell out all their games when they get their new arena, and get very good crowds at ScottTrade. When the city hosts NCAA events, they sell a lot of tickets. The Mizzou/Illini Braggin Rights game is one of the biggest events in college basketball, and attendence at smaller college and high school basketball games is incredibly high.



There is a large contingent of NBA fans here, including myself. But I don't expect someone like yourself to understand. You've obviously made up your mind.

I just don't think a city the size of St. Louis can support 4 major league teams.

That wasn't part of the discussion. If we had a team, I would go.

The NBA would never move a team here. They want to be in smaller markets with no professional teams, like Memphis, New Orleans and Oklahoma City.



So unless St. Louis loses the Blues and the Rams, I would think we don't have a shot in hell. And I don't want a team at the expense of those we already have.

Juice13610 wrote:I wish with all my heart we could get a basketball team. MLB, NHL, NFL, hopefully MLS soon, why not basketball?



No one knows of anyone with plans do they?



The Seattle Supersonics owner is wanting to move them to Oklahoma City.

Hmm...the St. Louis Supersonics??? A nod to the aviation heritage (McDonnell-Douglas, Boeing) of the area.

From what I've heard, Marshall Faulk often hangs out with exotic dancers from Washington Park, IL and Sauget, IL--so maybe his new restaurant will be competition for PT's Sports Cabaret.

I've never bought the argument that STL couldn't support 4 teams (5 if you count MLS).



If it's size that people are concerned about then how do you explain Denver which has a smaller metro population? Phoenix, Minneapolis/St. Paul & Detroit aren't tons larger than STL.

It's not the city can't support it. Its more about the NBA than it is about St. Louis. The NBA, for several years now, has been going into smaller metros looking to be the big fish in the small pond.



Think about the success of franchises in cities like Portland, San Antonio, Salt Lake, Memphis, Charlotte, etc. When the Hornets first went to Charlotte, there were no other professional franchises. Portland, SA, SLC, Memphis only have basketball for pro sports (the majors anyway: MLB, NBA, NHL, NFL), OKC was a big hit when New Orleans was in tatters, so they'll probably be the next to get a franchise. Orlando and Phoenix are other examples.



I wonder if the city really could handle another big sport here. I personally think we could pull it off. But what incentive does the NBA have to enter the St. Louis market, when they could go to OKC and sell out, or Louisville. In those cities, they don't have to compete with corporate dollars.

trent wrote:I wonder if the city really could handle another big sport here. I personally think we could pull it off. But what incentive does the NBA have to enter the St. Louis market, when they could go to OKC and sell out, or Louisville. In those cities, they don't have to compete with corporate dollars.

That's the crux of it. Unfortunately, every time the topic comes up, we're always subjected to the debate about whether St. Louis could support another franchise when it reality it has less to do with that and more to do with the NBA's desire to enter small markets with less competition for the sports fan's dollars. Or maybe I'm just listening to the wrong sports call-in shows or something.

In the meantime, the Saint Louis University Billikens will gladly accept your support.

TheWayoftheArch wrote:I agree with everything you said, trent...except that phoenix isn't an example.



Suns

Diamondbacks

Coyotes

Cardinals



And whoever said we have a Bigger MSA than Denver is on crack. Perhaps statistically speaking, but look at the qualitative evidence:



45 minutes in St. Louis gets you: Clinton County, Wentzville, Alton, etc. (allwithin our MSA)



45 minutes in Denver gets you: Fort Collins, Longmont, Boulder and real close to Colorado Springs, and as far into the mountains Fraser/Breckenridge. (none of these are in Denver's MSA)



They, like our crime stats to other cities, are not equivocal. The Front Range has an infinitely greater consumer base and buying power than our MSA.

About Phoenix let's not forget that for many years the Arizona Cardinals played to half-filled stadiums for a number of years. Even with a better team and a kick butt new stadium they still can't sell out.



Also: the D-Backs have never drawn well. They couldn't even sell their playoff games this year. Cards fans have regularly filled old and new Busch for many years.



The Coyotes have had attendance issues even after they moved to the new arena in Glendale.



The Suns have drawn pretty good, but having teams that made the playoffs most every year have helped.

WOTA,



The Suns were founded in 1968.



The Cardinals moved there in 1988.



The Coyotes moved in 1996.



The Diamondbacks in 1998.



The Suns were the only pro sports team for twenty years. They built there base, and it worked well.



If St. Louis still had the Hawks, we'd be having a different conversation, because that would be very similar. Building a long term fan base.

TheWayoftheArch wrote:


And whoever said we have a Bigger MSA than Denver is on crack. Perhaps statistically speaking, but look at the qualitative evidence....

That would be me TWotA. Despite what you may have heard I have never been nor am I currently on crack.



I was just going by the information that I had readily available. Only been through Denver on my way to Vegas so I never claimed to be a Denver expert. Therefore it was my lack of knowledge of qualitative evidence on a city I only passed through that was the source of my apparently misguided use of Denver as an example. Not crack.



I should have taken the time to check the television market size. Besides the fact that I'm a Broadcasting/Journalism major. I've always liked TV market as an indication of how large a city truly is. (I said an not the)



IMO, if you go home at night & watch the same 10 o'clock (or 11 o'clock outside the midwest) you live in the same city. Obviously this isn't a hard & fast rule, but in simple terms it suffices. Baltimore/ Washington D.C. come to mind.



Anyway, my point was supposed to be that markets like Denver, Phoenix, Detroit & Minneapolis/St. Paul that all have MLB, NFL, NHL & NBA are not enormously bigger than St. Louis. St. Louis is at least in the same ballpark as those metros & seems to still be growing.



Trent, I'm aware that the NBA is focusing on smaller markets now. I was just addressing the old "St. Louis isn't big enough...." argument against most new things that we've all heard so many times in the past. I remember hearing it when STL was trying to get the NFL back. I think STL is definitely on it's way to being "bigger" now.



I still think STL is a darkhorse for an eventual NBA team. One of the partners in this restaurant (to bring this slightly back on-topic) is Nelly, who is currently a minority partner in the Charlotte Bobcats. When he became a partner he stated that one of his goals was to use this experience to help eventually become a partner for a STL franchise.



With all the talk of how concerned league officials are when the championship games involve teams that aren't from New York, Boston or LA, I wonder how excited the NBA will be if we get an OKC/Louisville NBA final some day.

Well, TWotA, I guess the U.S. Census Bureau is on crack too. And they very well may be, considering they abbreviate Combined Statistical Area as 'CBSA', and they don't even put Phoenix or Miami on the CBSA list.



Anywho, the Estimated Population Size and Ranking of the Top 25 MSA and CBSA as of July 1, 2006:







Source: U.S. Census Bureau



Edit: Oh yes, Marshall Faulk!

In regards to whether or not St. Louis could support a team, this was my quote:

I wonder if the city really could handle another big sport here. I personally think we could pull it off.

But the age old problem is winning. No matter where you are, bad teams have trouble filling seats. The Blues were bad for a couple years, they stopped filling the venue. The Rams are bad now, they don't fill the dome. But when those teams were winning, they played in front of packed and rambunctious crowds each night. The same goes for ANY team that wins in any city.



The NBA is actually the best in terms of attendance averages/venue size across the board. Bad teams still draw better crowds than bad teams in other sports. And my belief for this is that to watch the NBA live and in person is more impressive than other sports. The average fan can get a great experience watching football and baseball on TV. That same fan probably doesn't get a great experience watching the NBA and NHL on TV, but seeing them live is truly impressive and exciting. And when you go see a game, you become a bigger fan because you've seen the players in person.



I would love to see St. Louis get an NBA team, I just don't see it happening any time soon. But as long as there are people passionate about the sport, we have a chance.

The upcoming recession sure isn't going to help...

The Central Scrutinizer wrote:

innov8ion wrote:The upcoming recession sure isn't going to help...

Is there one scheduled? I need to prepare.

If I were you, I would prepare to batten down the hatches. 2008 is going to be ugly in so many ways.

jlblues wrote:Well, TWotA, I guess the U.S. Census Bureau is on crack too.

They are. They got it from me.



What!? I said I wasn't on the stuff. I never said I didn't sell it.