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PostAug 25, 2007#126

That's the first time I've seen the Post-Dispatch reference urbanstl.com. Nice.



Obviously, because Wash Ave. was "gentrified" (read: no longer vacant), the issue has presented itself. When no one was living there, it did not matter if anyone slept in Lucas Park. But I agree that it's the wrong way to frame the problem.



It makes me wonder if St. Patrick's (and McMurphy's Grill) is at capacity--or simply can't attract a certain segment of the chronically homeless. McMurphy's Grill hires the homeless and trains them in the food service industry. I think that's a wonderful program. Supposed to be great food too, although I've never been.



As far as aggressive panhandling--I'm not sure most of the people who complain about this have been to New Orleans or Chicago or a host of other cities. They try to terrorize wayward tourists into walking to ATMs. I know I have been approached in St. Louis (near Lucas Park, on Wash Ave., and elsewhere) numerous times and have never once felt threatened or overburdened. I know that is just my particular anecdote. And yes, the woman whose business was barricaded by the homeless man--I do feel that's a particularly bad case. Even so, I think the problem is mostly aesthetic--that is, people don't want to have to "see" the homeless and they have all sorts of stereotypical fears as to their dangerousness.



Even so, public urination and litter and noise are not what I would want to have in my backyard, even in a downtown setting. I hope that the mayor's spoken efforts do take place and that the homeless can be connected with services that can assist them, to the best degree possible, in getting jobs.



And by the way, there is actually a homeless camp south of the Arch along the river. A friend of mine knows a man who is disabled and lost his job and house and moves down there. I think Larry Rice has something to do with it too if this homeless gentleman is to be believed. He says that they fish out of the Mississippi in order to eat. You might as well drink the urine at Lucas Park, I say.

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PostAug 25, 2007#127

Opening a center called New Horizons, a 24-hour "safe haven" for the homeless near 23rd and Pine streets where, at any time, as many as 25 homeless people can bathe, watch television, play video games or apply for jobs and social services.



The centerpiece of the plan is a privately run effort at Centenary Church. The church offers breakfast and lunch to as many as 200 homeless people six days each week, and soon will offer dinner on three nights.


Wow are these people incredibly stupid or what!?!?!



I'm starting to consider homelessness as an option. Not only can I make better than minimum wage by asking clueless liberals for their change, but I get free meals, free showers and I can sit on my ass and watch television or play video games all day if I need a break from harassing decent citizens! Even better, I can fill out forms to receive other people's money while I sit on my ass and watch tv! Does this New Horizons place also have a fully-stocked open bar? Free alcohol would really complete the package!



I can't wait for the mayor's office to comment on the tripling of homelessness once this "plan of action" takes effect!



This would be HILARIOUS if it weren't so darn detrimental to the rebirth of downtown!

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PostAug 25, 2007#128

Yes, Bastiat, because homelessness has simply gutted the downtowns of San Francisco, Portland, and Seattle, where the homeless numbers dwarf St. Louis...



And maybe some of the homeless collect SSI--but it's very difficult for a single man with no children to receive welfare.



People seem to forget that people without homes are still people. They can't simply be "moved", en masse, to a shelter against their will. Many of these people suffer from debilitating physical and mental illnesses, which is a lot of the reason they are chronically homeless. There is no easy solution to homelessness, and of course, it's not as simple as you made it out to be.

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PostAug 25, 2007#129

^ Fine, but let's try to keep this topic relevant to Lucas Park. If you want to continue this discussion, try the homeless thread here: http://urbanstl.com/viewtopic.php?t=1821&start=885

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PostAug 25, 2007#130

I was surprised to see the Post Dispatch reference urbanstl.com as well. I thought overall it was a pretty fair article. I loved the quote about the homeless guy who thought Lucas Park was a "homeless Landmark", unfortunately he's probably right and that shouldn't be the case.



Is Larry Rice about to croak anytime soon?

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PostAug 28, 2007#131

Matt Drops The H wrote:


People seem to forget that people without homes are still people. They can't simply be "moved", en masse, to a shelter against their will. Many of these people suffer from debilitating physical and mental illnesses, which is a lot of the reason they are chronically homeless. There is no easy solution to homelessness, and of course, it's not as simple as you made it out to be.


I have to take issue with the idea that they can't be "moved". If a person DOES have an illness, they should be moved to a psychiatric hospital. It is not up to them to decide whether to go or not since if they are homeless, they are clearly no longer able to make decisions for themselves.

I am not suggesting stashing away all the homeless in a mental hospital and keeping them there. But if a homeless man is obviously has a mental illness, I find nothing wrong with forcing them to go to a mental hospital where professionals can supervise them and hopefully make them better.



As far as the homeless that do not have a mental illness, that is a tougher problem, although the city could legally still move them, since most of them end up violating some kind of law (loitering for instance). The ethic principles of this is obviously a lot more comlex, but a case could still be made for this.

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PostSep 27, 2007#132

Tonight is the Downtown St. Louis Residents Association's (DSLRA) quarterly meeting. It is at the Dubliner in the upstairs, back room. The bar will open around 6:30, and we'll begin the program at about 7:00.



Specifically in regards to Lucas Park, I'll be speaking about an exciting initiative to improve it. I'll be outlining the state of the park currently, a general vision that has the support and contributions from Alderman Kacie Starr Triplett and other parties, and roadmap to get there. In short, we'll be forming a five person board which we'll need enthusiastic volunteers with leadership skills to man (or woman!.) The board will be leading sub-initiatives with the help of volunteers to really make a difference and improve the park.



For this to be successful (and it will!), we will need your support not only in making this happen, but to come back and enjoy using the new park...



I'll post a link to the presentation after the meeting.

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PostSep 27, 2007#133

Is Lucas Park really big enough for a dog park? A real dog park, where dogs can run, I don't think so. Especailly if you plan to put in BBQ equipment and tables, on top of the existing pool.



But a dog park in one of the nearby parks would be great. It's needed.

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PostSep 27, 2007#134

GelatinousEndive wrote:Is Lucas Park really big enough for a dog park? A real dog park, where dogs can run, I don't think so, especially if you can to put BBQ quipments and tables, on top of the existing pool.



But a dog park in one of the nearby parks would be great.
A St. Louis dog-park organization will help in the planning process. Although not a huge area, it is big enough for a smaller-sized dog park. Space is much easier to come by in the suburbs. In a downtown area, one must be creative in making a space work well given constraints. Perhaps there will be larger dog parks downtown in the future.



I see dog owners shooing their dogs away from choking on the countless chicken bones in Lucas Park currently. A dog park would shield dogs from this danger and finally give residents a place downtown to let their dogs run free off of a leash. If this isn't a start in the right direction, I don't know what is...



Not sure what you mean by placing barbeque grills and tables on the pool. The design process hasn't started yet.

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PostSep 27, 2007#135

innov8ion wrote:Tonight is the Downtown St. Louis Residents Association's (DSLRA) quarterly meeting. It is at the Dubliner in the upstairs, back room. The bar will open around 6:30, and we'll begin the program at about 7:00.


Do you have to be a downtown resident to attend? Is there a password?

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PostSep 27, 2007#136

^ The password is, "Cheez Wiz." j/k



As far as I'm concerned, anyone who is interested in the renaissance of downtown is invited. We don't check ID's at the door. :P The meeting is geared toward downtown residents but anyone is welcome.



Thursday, September 27, 2007, 7:00 p.m.

The Dubliner



Agenda:



- Welcome/Program

Brad Fratello

DSLRA President



- Canine Litter Prevention



Kelly Yeager

Landscape Supervisor

Downtown St. Louis Partnership



- Parking Downtown Q & A

Larry Williams

St. Louis Treasurer

Director of Parking Services



- Smoke-Free St. Louis initiative

Stacy Reliford

Regional Director, Government Relations

American Cancer Society



- Lucas Park Dog Park & Renovation

David Goldstick

DSLRA Board



- StreamTeach Presentation

Herman W. Smith, Ph.D.

Secretary & Founding President,

StreamTeach, Inc.



Questions/other business

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PostSep 28, 2007#137

- Smoke-Free St. Louis initiative

Stacy Reliford

Regional Director, Government Relations

American Cancer Society


I suppose the smoking Nazis don't want to allow smoking outdoors these days?

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PostSep 28, 2007#138

It makes the fresh air smell bad. :lol:

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PostSep 29, 2007#139

drunkrusski wrote:
Matt Drops The H wrote:


People seem to forget that people without homes are still people. They can't simply be "moved", en masse, to a shelter against their will. Many of these people suffer from debilitating physical and mental illnesses, which is a lot of the reason they are chronically homeless. There is no easy solution to homelessness, and of course, it's not as simple as you made it out to be.


I have to take issue with the idea that they can't be "moved". If a person DOES have an illness, they should be moved to a psychiatric hospital. It is not up to them to decide whether to go or not since if they are homeless, they are clearly no longer able to make decisions for themselves.

I am not suggesting stashing away all the homeless in a mental hospital and keeping them there. But if a homeless man is obviously has a mental illness, I find nothing wrong with forcing them to go to a mental hospital where professionals can supervise them and hopefully make them better.



As far as the homeless that do not have a mental illness, that is a tougher problem, although the city could legally still move them, since most of them end up violating some kind of law (loitering for instance). The ethic principles of this is obviously a lot more comlex, but a case could still be made for this.


If I remember my history correctly, it was a failure to adequately and systematically fund mental institutions that led to a dramatic increase in homelessness, as people who were not considered a threat to themselves or others were basically thrown out of the institutions despite the fact that they could not really care for themselves. I have often seen it stated that approx 30% of homeless people are mentally ill.



Anyways, I'm glad to see some initiative being taken on the Lucas Park issue. It really is up to us to make the right things happen in our neighborhoods.

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PostOct 11, 2007#140

Best...picture...ever...







Concerning Larry Rice's renewable energy center plans for the Grand/Bates area.)

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PostNov 02, 2007#141

"Friends of Lucas Park," a new downtown organization, is forming to help spearhead the revitalization of Lucas Park. But first we need to populate the board, so please apply by Wednesday, November 14th.



If applying to join the five person board, please send an email to innov8ion@gmail.com answering the following questions.



* How close in proximity do you live to Lucas Park?

* Can you make a small time commitment to support the project?

* Have you had experience in successfully leading projects, whether large or small?

* Have you worked previously to support Lucas Park improvement projects? If so, explain briefly.

* Do you have a dog? (It's not necessary to have one)



If you aren't interested in joining the board but would still like to help in the future, please send me an email so you can be added to the list.



To learn more about the improvement project, click this link http://tinyurl.com/2jmqu6 to view the most recent Lucas Park presentation. In order to view it, you must authenticate with a Google account. If you don't have one, you can obtain one for free at http://gmail.com.



Thanks!

Dave Goldstick

innov8ion@gmail.com

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PostNov 02, 2007#142

Are you spearheading this, Innov8ion? I would caution you not to have a board consisting of four downtown residents and one homeless advocate. Couldn't one be both?



Anyhow, I'm an oft admirer of a grassroots effort.

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PostNov 02, 2007#143

dweebe wrote:Best...picture...ever...







Concerning Larry Rice's renewable energy center plans for the Grand/Bates area.)


Good news- Rice's initial request for a conditional use permit has been denied. He has much more to prove, we'll see how he does. Bad news- gas prices have risen $.40 per gallon in the three weeks since that picture was taken. :roll:



Back to the subject at hand, it's great to see you're moving forward with FOLP, innov8ion. 8)

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PostNov 02, 2007#144

Matt Drops The H wrote:Are you spearheading this, Innov8ion? I would caution you not to have a board consisting of four downtown residents and one homeless advocate. Couldn't one be both?



Anyhow, I'm an oft admirer of a grassroots effort.


I assume when he means resident, it's someone who owns or rents a condo/loft/apartment.

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PostNov 02, 2007#145

Matt Drops The H wrote:Are you spearheading this, Innov8ion? I would caution you not to have a board consisting of four downtown residents and one homeless advocate. Couldn't one be both?



Anyhow, I'm an oft admirer of a grassroots effort.
Yes, Matt. And of course, one could be both. I see us more as facilitating and collaborating with various stakeholders to spur positive change in development phases and caretaking throughout the life of the park. Perhaps there will be fundraising as well that will entail leadership and volunteering opportunities.



One thing is for certain, the more support we get from residents and other stakeholders to help make this a success, the greater sense of ownership we will feel, and in the end a greater utilization of Lucas Park. And yes, we are blessed to have aldermanic and other support.

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PostNov 02, 2007#146

Bravo. Is it safe to say with innov8ion's help Lucas Park will enjoy the grandeur it once did? :D

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PostNov 02, 2007#147

Hah! I hope we will all come to enjoy the renewed grandeur of Lucas Park, but it will be because of the care and effort of many.

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PostNov 03, 2007#148

Isn't the mission to transform Hobo Park into Dog Park? :-s




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PostNov 03, 2007#149

^^ Homeless advocate, not a homeless person, I think.

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PostNov 03, 2007#150

Matt Drops The H wrote:Bravo. Is it safe to say with innov8ion's help Lucas Park will enjoy the grandeur it once did? :D


Thanks Innov8ion! And thanks to others involved. This is great news.

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