urbanSTL

Metro should also really try to crack down on youth riding Metrolink without a ticket...I would guess a lot of those young people were riding without one. They should make sure ALL trains from downtown to the Loop have security/ticket takers on weekend nights.

Yup, I was referring to last night. Whatever had gone down was pretty much cleared away when we drove through. Saw quite a few peeps out enjoying the downtown.

Should have a STL appreciation thread here in the forum, because today has been just fantastic. Took in the St. Patrick's Day parade (8 bus to the Civic Center station = awesome), over to Soulard for barbecue at Bogart's, and Jameson cupcakes at The Sweet Divine. People were out everywhere having a great time. I feel sorry for the folks who never venture into the city. I freakin' love St. Louis.

roger wyoming II wrote:

downtown2007 wrote:Last Sunday was in the Loop. Last night Wash Ave.

sounds like the Wash Ave incident was pretty crazy according to the stltoday article. I wonder if this had any relationship to the chaos earlier in the late afternoon at Art Hill where some dumbassed radio station put on some kind of stupid event without a permit and a huge fight broke out.

The event that went on at Art Hill was an event to celebrate St. Louis. 314 day is celebrated on March 14 (obviously 3/14), they were showing pride in STL and it seemed like a great event. Also, I'm pretty sure it was safe because Chief Sam Dotson was there, see him in the middle and the other cops in the right corner of the image.


Hey, since STLPD was there couldn't they have shut down the event if they didn't have a permit??????

I feel like St. Louis really needs to be one community if we are to solve these problems, instead of calling something you don't understand "stupid" or "dumbassed."

Pruitt, this is an interesting statement:

I feel like St. Louis really needs to be one community if we are to solve these problems, instead of calling something you don't understand "stupid" or "dumbassed."

Can you elaborate a bit on this? I'd love to hear you expand on this idea. Thanks.

Northside Neighbor wrote:Pruitt, this is an interesting statement:

I feel like St. Louis really needs to be one community if we are to solve these problems, instead of calling something you don't understand "stupid" or "dumbassed."

Can you elaborate a bit on this? I'd love to hear you expand on this idea. Thanks.

This thread is disappointing. As a metro we should say that we need to develop things for young people to do, instead of trying to give them less. People from the burbs need to understand that every place you go there is danger look at the shopping mall shootings.

St. Louis should be a more tolerant community for all the things its black community has contributed to it. Over the past 60 years the city's black culture is what has kept us in the National View. Chuck Berry, Ike and Tina, etc. made our music scene amazing, our biggest celebrity of the last 15 years is Nelly. Sweety Pie's is where celebrities and visitors want to dine when they get in town, people come from everywhere to eat STL BBQ

The Cardinals faces of the Franchise for different decades were Bob Gibson and Ozzie Smith.

We gave Stan Musial a bridge but named a housing project in honor of our Tuskegee airmen Wendell O. Pruitt and Washington University product William Igoe.

Now you're talking. Thanks for that. More people need to understand that we are one community, and many of our greatest achievements are thanks to black people. We need black people to have the kind of widespread community appreciation that we hold for Catholics and Irish. There is great diversity in St. Louis, but for some, they almost see it as a negative.

onecity wrote:How did this turn into a black white issue? The issue is that these kids' parents suck at parenting and obviously demand nothing from their children's behavior. That they happen to be black is irrelevant. That they are trash is relevant.

Maybe their parents are busy working three jobs to feed their kids and make rent? There's a reason poverty is intergenerational.

Or maybe it's intergenerational because just a genetic predisposition to trashiness that happens to overlap with skin color in a totally not-racist way.

(Hint: It's the first one.)

onecity wrote:How did this turn into a black white issue? The issue is that these kids' parents suck at parenting and obviously demand nothing from their children's behavior. That they happen to be black is irrelevant. That they are trash is relevant.

Yeah, dude you never did anything rebellious as a teenager. You're judging them without knowing them which is why this problem will persist. It has racial overtones because there's no looking for answers just looking.

New Orleans is a city with the same crime problems, they even had a natural disaster but they hosted an NBA All Star game and Super Bowl back to back years with half the metro population than St. Louis.

Think about it:
Six Flags is about good hour and half away depending on traffic.
It cost nearly $30 to a see movie these days.
No more drive-ins.
There are no pools till memorial day.
We don't have a beach or Lakefront.
No NBA.

Let's be honest and say our town can be better instead of "these people are trash we need more cops." More police would scare people off.

Think about it:
Six Flags is about good hour and half away depending on traffic.
It cost nearly $30 to a see movie these days.
No more drive-ins.
There are no pools till memorial day.
We don't have a beach or Lakefront.
No NBA.

This should be no excuse. They can read a book or play video games like normal kids do. Are there no libraries in this area? What about parks?

I don't know where you are seeing movies but $30 is over twice what I have paid to ever see a movie in theater(s).

Yes, this is a socioeconomic problem. However, it is also a parenting and law enforcement problem. The children and their parents need to be held accountable. If there were a law enforcement officer within a few blocks at this time, I can almost guarantee things might have ended more peacefully.

I just cannot accept that gunfire can be so frequent and "normal" for the Loop. That to me is quite baffling and troublesome. What is the solution to these lawless, asinine scenes that are putting this area's future and lives at risk?

Let's be honest and say our town can be better instead of "these people are trash we need more cops." More police would scare people off.

I think that having increased bike and foot patrols in the evenings during warm weather months, increased MetroLink fare enforcement, and more dedicated MetroLink police officers would thwart the problem. Bike and foot patrols should span the entire Loop trolley route and surrounding blocks and should be a public-private partnership between U City, St. Louis City, Wash U, Forest Park Forever, and the Loop Special Business District.

At the same time, I would love to see more investment in this area and the Delmar/Wabash station renovated and restored as a kind of "front door" to a newly reinvigorated East Loop. However, I am afraid that will never happen until we solve this crime problem.

WendellOPruitt wrote:

onecity wrote:How did this turn into a black white issue? The issue is that these kids' parents suck at parenting and obviously demand nothing from their children's behavior. That they happen to be black is irrelevant. That they are trash is relevant.

Yeah, dude you never did anything rebellious as a teenager. You're judging them without knowing them which is why this problem will persist. It has racial overtones because there's no looking for answers just looking.

Let's be honest and say our town can be better instead of "these people are trash we need more cops." More police would scare people off.

Rebelliousness is no excuse for roving mobs and gunfire anywhere, particularly in vital entertainment districts. On the other hand, it's neither productive nor respectful to refer to people as trash. Isn't it obvious there are behavior problems to address, however?

Also, I don't understand what you mean by racial overtones. Regardless of color, if bands of individuals are causing problems, action needs to be taken. There is plenty to do and lack of parenting appears to contribute to the problem. From a sociological perspective, mobs are powder kegs waiting to happen.

St. Louis does have a rich African-American culture however I don't see what it has to do with the issue of loitering, mobs, and gunfire. There's no sense in making excuses in my opinion.

Randy wrote:

Think about it:
Six Flags is about good hour and half away depending on traffic.
It cost nearly $30 to a see movie these days.
No more drive-ins.
There are no pools till memorial day.
We don't have a beach or Lakefront.
No NBA.

This should be no excuse. They can read a book or play video games like normal kids do. Are there no libraries in this area? What about parks?

I don't know where you are seeing movies but $30 is over twice what I have paid to ever see a movie in theater(s).

Yes, this is a socioeconomic problem. However, it is also a parenting and law enforcement problem. The children and their parents need to be held accountable. If there were a law enforcement officer within a few blocks at this time, I can almost guarantee things might have ended more peacefully.

I just cannot accept that gunfire can be so frequent and "normal" for the Loop. That to me is quite baffling and troublesome. What is the solution to these lawless, asinine scenes that are putting this area's future and lives at risk?

Let's be honest and say our town can be better instead of "these people are trash we need more cops." More police would scare people off.

I think that having increased bike and foot patrols in the evenings during warm weather months, increased MetroLink fare enforcement, and more dedicated MetroLink police officers would thwart the problem. Bike and foot patrols should span the entire Loop trolley route and surrounding blocks and should be a public-private partnership between U City, St. Louis City, Wash U, Forest Park Forever, and the Loop Special Business District.

At the same time, I would love to see more investment in this area and the Delmar/Wabash station renovated and restored as a kind of "front door" to a newly reinvigorated East Loop. However, I am afraid that will never happen until we solve this crime problem.

Go to a movie with a large group(which teenagers do), order the over priced food and drinks see if it doesn't come close.

When did I ever say that this was okay? I said we can handle this better. Have you been to the loop lately I saw 4 cop cars, I was there for thirty minutes. But, yeah throw them in jail its been working so well for STL (Sarcasm). You're in one of the most dangerous places in the country gun has been normal for a long time. I guess if you frequent the place then something has to be done huh. (Sarcasm)

Go to a movie with a large group(which teenagers do), order the over priced food and drinks see if it doesn't come close.

I would recommend not ordering the overpriced junk food

But, yeah throw them in jail its been working so well for STL (Sarcasm). You're in one of the most dangerous places in the country gun has been normal for a long time. I guess if you frequent the place then something has to be done huh. (Sarcasm)

Then what do you recommend is done? Nothing?

Randy wrote:

Go to a movie with a large group(which teenagers do), order the over priced food and drinks see if it doesn't come close.

I would recommend not ordering the overpriced junk food

But, yeah throw them in jail its been working so well for STL (Sarcasm). You're in one of the most dangerous places in the country gun has been normal for a long time. I guess if you frequent the place then something has to be done huh. (Sarcasm)

Then what do you recommend is done? Nothing?

We need a better plan of action. If LA and NY can clean up so can we. We just have to be honest and say this isn't working.

Can we please not make this is not a black vs white nor a white vs black this is about over 2 dozen teens and more going wild in a city region plagued with many problems and dealing with many high crime problems.. I firmly believe if you're going to be a parent then you gave up that right of free time and freedom and do your part in being a parent and not a friend.. This isn't St.Louis this is all over the country black white hispanic.. We need to stop making every problem that occurs in St.Louis a black problem. Whites go through the same so do people of all ethnics around the world. I love all people but if we're ever going to become one nation we need to stop the blaming..Kids and teens today are influence by the internet bad music violent movies etc. and it seems like being bad is a good thing....We should teach the young of today whats right and whats wrong and most kids and teens don't know whats right from the wrongs they do whatever they want cause parents today don't want to be parents...These kids had no business going out and creating havoc whether in Frontenac or in the Ville neighborhood. St.Louis City needs to enforce its curfews like they should be doing and also start going after these bad parent's of these children....Also The city just built 2 new community centers one south one north no excuse. Also what does basketball NBA all stars and super bowls have to do with any of this?
The fact is these kids shouldn't being out standing on top of cars yelling profanities out loud punching innocent people....

Wendell, the "clean up" in NYC was accomplished with appreciable police action as well as a controversial stop-and-frisk policy, which i'm assuming you wouldn't support. if you think NYC improved their crime problem by eliminating social inequality you're mistaken.

WendellOPruitt wrote:But, yeah throw them in jail its been working so well for STL (Sarcasm). You're in one of the most dangerous places in the country gun has been normal for a long time. I guess if you frequent the place then something has to be done huh. (Sarcasm)

if they commit a violent crime then, yes, throw them in jail. implying that it's selfish or privileged to want safe streets when "gun has been normal for a long time" (if that's what your saying–i don't want to put words in your mouth) is completely unreasonble. certainly we have to try to keep kids from getting to that point, but we're talking about generations of entrenched poverty and the associated behavioral consequences. despite all the vague "just do this" and "just do that" suggestions there's no easy resolution.

I feel like these occurrences often become black vs. white issues because the perpetrators in most instances ARE black. I know that's not what a lot of people like to hear, but there is nothing to be gained from ignoring that reality.

urban_dilettante wrote:Wendell, the "clean up" in NYC was accomplished with appreciable police action as well as a controversial stop-and-frisk policy, which i'm assuming you wouldn't support. if you think NYC improved their crime problem by eliminating social inequality you're mistaken.

WendellOPruitt wrote:But, yeah throw them in jail its been working so well for STL (Sarcasm). You're in one of the most dangerous places in the country gun has been normal for a long time. I guess if you frequent the place then something has to be done huh. (Sarcasm)

if they commit a violent crime then, yes, throw them in jail. implying that it's selfish or privileged to want safe streets when "gun has been normal for a long time" (if that's what your saying–i don't want to put words in your mouth) is completely unreasonble. certainly we have to try to keep kids from getting to that point, but we're talking about generations of entrenched poverty and the associated behavioral consequences. despite all the vague "just do this" and "just do that" suggestions there's no easy resolution.

For the 1,000,000 time, I AM NOT ENDORSING CRIME, I'm saying we need handle this situation better as a city. There are cities with more crime ran better than St. Louis, Baltimore's level of crime is worse but its inner harbor is better than our downtown. So crime levels should not hold us back from becoming a better city as some in here alluded too, but we should want to stop crime YES.

NYC was ran by the mob, corrupt politicians and crooked cops. Stop and Frisk is taking away a persons rights as an American, and a really racist law.