The commotion extended east on Delmar. There were several groups of young people between Hodiamont and Hamilton. I saw the paddywagon pull out of the Family Dollar parking lot. I presume some arrests. Don't know why or how many. A neighbor said he'd heard shots fired. Are there any media accounts of all this? Police reports?
I know there have been incidents in the past with large groups of teens in the Loop, but in general St. Louisans tend to use the word "sketchy" as a shorthand for "a majority presence of a minority". (I am NOT singling you out, Anglophile...just saying).
I was in the Loop last night walking and, while it was loud and, yes, groups of teens are certainly more unpredictable than other groups, I'd say that the presence of no fewer than 25 police officers helped dial down the "unsafe" meter to 0, at least for me.
Did anything illegal actually occur last night?
I was in the Loop last night walking and, while it was loud and, yes, groups of teens are certainly more unpredictable than other groups, I'd say that the presence of no fewer than 25 police officers helped dial down the "unsafe" meter to 0, at least for me.
Did anything illegal actually occur last night?
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I was in the Loop last night on the east side of Skinker, and it was overrun with dozens of teenagers yelling and running up and down the block (some running from police, some running toward the action, whatever that might be). Some ran into the street, which backed up traffic, while others were running on the sidewalks in large groups. While not illegal to run, it's not hard to see how this behavior interferes with promoting business and an atmosphere of safety.
It certainly did not feel "0" level safe to me. I know how that behavior quickly can escalate to a shooting. The SLMPD were not the only ones on scene, either. Overland PD, STL County, and U City were out in force on the west side.
It certainly did not feel "0" level safe to me. I know how that behavior quickly can escalate to a shooting. The SLMPD were not the only ones on scene, either. Overland PD, STL County, and U City were out in force on the west side.
If the unsafe meter was "0" then why did I get screamed at by a police officer (BTW, she was black) and told to leave immediately when I'd barely taken three steps out of my car?GHSTL wrote:I know there have been incidents in the past with large groups of teens in the Loop, but in general St. Louisans tend to use the word "sketchy" as a shorthand for "a majority presence of a minority". (I am NOT singling you out, Anglophile...just saying).
I was in the Loop last night walking and, while it was loud and, yes, groups of teens are certainly more unpredictable than other groups, I'd say that the presence of no fewer than 25 police officers helped dial down the "unsafe" meter to 0, at least for me.
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Sounds like the Loops is still going through the same problems .. Those teen groups worry me i think that what kind of hurt Washington Ave .. Patrons don't want to be around such fiasco's..Scares potential customers off there for hurts business's trying to thrive. Clearly these teens arent there to shop and enjoy the entertainment they are only there to disrupt be rude and start a ruckus..
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Same thing happened in Country Club Plaza in KC last month. They have really struggled with these issues as well. Hopefully we can come up with a solid plan for Loop and Wash Ave.
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I was at Tavolo V, and they feel that the situation requires they pay a security guy to stand outside and shoo the kids away. That's probably $100-$150 a night in costs, 7 days a week, so maybe $3000 in security a month. To those who say the kids running around is no big deal, it's a costly deal for Tavolo at $36,000 a year.
Wow really? That's nuts. I'd think weekends and during summer break would make sense. But 7 days a week 52 weeks a year seems a bit extreme.
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Maybe he was exaggerating when he said 7 days a week -- but that's what the security guy told me last night when I asked how often they had someone there.
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How long has this been going on this year? Seems like last weekend would have been the 1st opportunity.
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This tends to happen on the first warm weekend of the year. Typically the police then prepare for the following weekends.
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The loop has issues outside the weekend times, I can def. see security needed there throughout the week. The rambunctious kids are going to scare away people that actually enjoy the area and spend money. I have gotten a red box movie at the family dollar before and was slightly afraid to get out of the car a couple times, and no I do not live in the county.
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^Yeah, the Family Dollar may only be one block east of the Loop, but that is quite a block in terms of socio-economic shift.
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The RFT comes through with some details...Massive brawl and gunfire
http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyr ... unfire.php
http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyr ... unfire.php
Lovely comments.southcitymatt wrote:The RFT comes through with some details...Massive brawl and gunfire
http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyr ... unfire.php
Did the keeper at the ape house accidentally leave a cage open?
if obama had kids in st. louis, they would look like them.
Exactly why everoyne is leaving the city. Why develop areas and make it nice for visitors and residents when it will eventually become overun thugs and eventually blighted. Some areas of St. Louis need to be patrolled by the National Guard and laws enforced by marshall law.
I'm sick of the Loop, had it with all of these young people taking over everything and everyone with THEIR violent lifestyles.DON'T GO TO THE LOOP. Metrolink was the beginning of the end to The Loop.
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Yes because the Loop east of Skinker was MUCH nicer in the 80's before the MetrolinkI'm sick of the Loop, had it with all of these young people taking over everything and everyone with THEIR violent lifestyles.DON'T GO TO THE LOOP. Metrolink was the beginning of the end to The Loop.
If Obamahad kids in st. louis, they would look like them.
This guy--Steve Mincer--posts his "Obama's kids" comment on every story in RFT or STL Today that involves African-Americans somehow behaving badly.
I'm sure 97.1 FM is looking to add him to their lineup.
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It's sad to see this happening in the Loop but i think its happening in most St.Louis revitalized areas. Sadly its been happening in the Loop for far too many times. I just hope they don't start going to The Grove Area doing what they do.. These area's in my opinion need to have restrictions on age .. No one under 21 allowed and if so you need to be with parents.. Clearly none of them know how to act... They think being loud and disruptive is the best way of getting attention ... Stereotypes will always hinder certain culture of people lifestyles..
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This happened right outside my apartment. It's disconcerting to know that there are potentially large groups of wild youth marauding about, but the police seemed to have a pretty good handle on them. There were about 8-10 cars there and they had all of them under control, with quite few in cuffs on the curb. We really need to nip this problem in the bud before it causes serious damage to Wash Ave and the Loop.
The article also mentioned that they took the Metro down here. Not. Good.
The article also mentioned that they took the Metro down here. Not. Good.
I may not have gone far enough back in the thread, but while these are disturbing trends, has any business owner given data that this behavior is measurably thwarting business? It seems difficult to isolate this intermittent variable as a cause for economic downturn. There is significant investment in the Loop which seems ongoing between Joe Edwards' vision, Wash U's resources, and a growing list of developers. The people that leave brash comments about the Loop would never go with enough regularity to be a significant economic force even if stuff like this never happened. The people that are regular investors in the district are likely to not be deterred.
Unfortunately, these flash mob incidents have been occurring all around the country. Philadelphia, Los Angeles, Chicago. They tried in New York, but the city shut it down so fast it made the kids heads spin. Simply put NYPD and the money elite of Manhattan don't play that s***. It's usually something that starts when it gets warm every spring/summer and is one of the negative effects of social media tools like Twitter/Facebook . If SLPD jumps in front of this thing and has a zero tolerance policy it should be shut down immediately.
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Was down there last night after taking my first drive over the Stan, luckily it was after all this went down. We did see a car rear-end another waiting at a stop light at Washington and Tucker (hello St. Louis worst drivers thread). 
On a related note - does anyone else get the urge to punch people when reading the comments in the Post-Dispatch?
On a related note - does anyone else get the urge to punch people when reading the comments in the Post-Dispatch?
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^AfterHours, did you mean you were there last weekend? The brawl and shots fired happened on Sunday night (March 9). Or am I mistaken and there was another incident last night (Friday March 14)?
Hard to quantify, but this definitely makes it harder to achieve our TOD/walkable neighborhood vision from continuing East.
This stuff is also why people freak out about school transfers, merging school districts, city reentry,, bridging the Delmar divide, etc. People who don't go to the Loop or Wash Ave and just see this on the news throw up their hands and write it off as a lost cause. And they certainly won't support things that they think may possibly someday maybe bring some of this to where they live.
This incidents also make patrons and capital nervous. The fight in the Loop is right where the main Trolley station is going to be. The video shows the mock station. Will it stop development going east? No, there are too many people trying to make it happen. I just think it slows it down.
This stuff is also why people freak out about school transfers, merging school districts, city reentry,, bridging the Delmar divide, etc. People who don't go to the Loop or Wash Ave and just see this on the news throw up their hands and write it off as a lost cause. And they certainly won't support things that they think may possibly someday maybe bring some of this to where they live.
This incidents also make patrons and capital nervous. The fight in the Loop is right where the main Trolley station is going to be. The video shows the mock station. Will it stop development going east? No, there are too many people trying to make it happen. I just think it slows it down.