Besides there being no farms in the City, with property tax assessments, there are classifications of residential, commercial, industrial and agricultural. So I'd assume, we could treat parking lots as commercial, thus a 33% assessed value instead of the 19% residential. And mom'n'pops typically don't occupy strip malls, so then as long as they gravitate towards smaller parcels, I don't think chains would have the upper hand.
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From Mayor Slay's
According to Barb Geisman, three new projects have made it through both the internal TIF review committee and the early phases of the formal TIF Commission approval process.
The first is a proposal by Opus Development to build a new 28-story mixed use condo/retail building on the site of the former American Heart Association offices. The development will return a tax-exempt property to the tax rolls and increase the residential density on the block.
According to Barb Geisman, three new projects have made it through both the internal TIF review committee and the early phases of the formal TIF Commission approval process.
The first is a proposal by Opus Development to build a new 28-story mixed use condo/retail building on the site of the former American Heart Association offices. The development will return a tax-exempt property to the tax rolls and increase the residential density on the block.
Dash,
First off when implementing such a tax, it owuld be key not to raise the total tax recipts, only to move how you are being taxed. So for example, the tax rate on buildings would fall and the tax rate on land would rise. It's a balancing act, something that would haev a far greater effect on vacant land owners than buildings. MOreover, I agree it would be wrong to tax people on what the best use of the land is. The tax should only be valued based on what the actaul value of the land is.
I also know this won't create skyscrpaers. What it will do is improve the use of the land. Most importantly, it attempts to discourage the holding of unimproved land.
If you are so wary of taxation for any social goal i can only guess you do no support actions such as the graduated income tax, TIF, sales taxes, or even property taxes. As far as I can tell you can't support any taxes. My guess is you support those taxes whose social goals you aprove of.
First off when implementing such a tax, it owuld be key not to raise the total tax recipts, only to move how you are being taxed. So for example, the tax rate on buildings would fall and the tax rate on land would rise. It's a balancing act, something that would haev a far greater effect on vacant land owners than buildings. MOreover, I agree it would be wrong to tax people on what the best use of the land is. The tax should only be valued based on what the actaul value of the land is.
I also know this won't create skyscrpaers. What it will do is improve the use of the land. Most importantly, it attempts to discourage the holding of unimproved land.
If you are so wary of taxation for any social goal i can only guess you do no support actions such as the graduated income tax, TIF, sales taxes, or even property taxes. As far as I can tell you can't support any taxes. My guess is you support those taxes whose social goals you aprove of.
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<A HREF="http://www.westendword.com/moxie/news/f ... l">Further details emerge of 28-story condo project in CWE</A>
By Tim Woodcock
Posted Wednesday, September 14, 2005
A second new high-rise for the Central West End is in the works. The project, which has the working name Lindell Condominiums, has the backing of some key figures in city government. So far the plan appears to have the backing of Alderman Lyda Krewson and the mayor?s office ? but as yet the neighborhood has not had a chance to weigh in on the issue.
<A HREF="http://www.westendword.com/moxie/news/f ... e-of.shtml">>>> read more</A>
By Tim Woodcock
Posted Wednesday, September 14, 2005
A second new high-rise for the Central West End is in the works. The project, which has the working name Lindell Condominiums, has the backing of some key figures in city government. So far the plan appears to have the backing of Alderman Lyda Krewson and the mayor?s office ? but as yet the neighborhood has not had a chance to weigh in on the issue.
<A HREF="http://www.westendword.com/moxie/news/f ... e-of.shtml">>>> read more</A>
Yeah Opus! I agree, a "design by committee" would certainly not please everyone as we see with the Bottle District.The idea of having 28 stories could be revisited, but Opus is committed to a 25- to 30-story building, Krewson said.
?I am concerned by the height,? said John Berglund, a member of the Central West End Association?s Planning and Development Committee. It would be no problem closer to Kingshighway, but in this location it might crowd out the smaller-scale buildings of Euclid Avenue, he said.
The committee has not formally looked at any plans for the building yet, Berglund said. The group meets each month and the project was not on the agenda at its Sept. 10 meeting.
The committee has an advisory role only, and it attempts to influence the city?s Cultural Resources Board and the aldermen if it is unhappy with elements of a project, Berglund said.
?It makes our job much easier,? if a project has the backing of the neighborhood, he said. But ?everyone has their own tastes and desires? and Opus would not submit to ?design by committee,? he said.
Also, putting it on Kingshighway might be better (major street, across from Forest Park) but land assembly and cost may be more of a problem. Technically, Park East has already "crowded out" the smaller scale buildings on Euclid - if that is really a concern. IMO, if that was concern, they should have been more vocal about Park East. Don't take it out on this project. If that was really a concern, too late. A 28-story Lindell Condominiums is appropriate for that corner. This building is likely to face LINDELL (like all of the other residential high-rises) - not Euclid.
With Berglund's thinking, no taller structures would ever be built in the CWE. They would all have to be built on Kingshighway.
There are small scale buildings all over the neighborhood. I'm not suggesting building a tower next to a mansion or anything, but Kingshighway, Lindell, Delmar, and Forest Park Boulevard are the main arteries through the CWE and this building is being built on Lindell. This building would not look inappropriate on that corner no more than it would look inappropriate on the parking lot cattycorner to the proposed site. Lindell is a highrise corridor.
The CWE Association better not mess this up. Opus, as the article suggests, has a good national reputation and if the CWEA gives too much of a hassle, it could really make Opus have reservations about building in St. Louis (the city in particular) and other national developers could follow suit.
This mentality is so small town, in my opinion. Is a 28-story building really a big project especially considering a 26-story tower is rising a block away? Seriously??Sometimes we are more influential with smaller projects than with bigger ones,? Berglund said.
St. Louis doesn't have to build 54-story condo buildings like Chicago or Minneapolis-St. Paul, but 28-stories is meager compared to new towers going up in similar neighborhoods around the country.
I don't want to hear any complaining about high-rises on this section of Lindell. Just look up and down the street???? It is a street lined with tall elevator buildings. This corner is screaming for a high-rise. I am not worried about the short retail building behind it. Straub's sits next to the Park Plaza - are they complaining?
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I don't think the owners of duffs and the gallery and antique store there are going to complain about this. This is one guy trying to force his lack of vision on the neighborhood. I find these types of groups to be vocal minorities usually...then again its the vocal that people hear. We need to drown th
em out.
a friend of mine actually had this uncle in Wassau Wisconsin who lead a eco-citizens group to stop the city from sidewalk and gutter improvements and additions. He didn't especially want gutters...you know, cause the rain needs natural disbursement...and I like a flooded basement...Now that is die-hard anti-dvelopment.
Just down the street there is a ten-twelve story building right behind drunken fish at Maryland...park east the other way...highrises up lindell...
I am under the impression that with 98 mil invested, nearly twice that of PE this thing will have a broader profile, not quite so delicate. Height to width ratio won't be as high. 200 units, about the same height and 90% more investment...this should be a large building in all aspects.
em out.
a friend of mine actually had this uncle in Wassau Wisconsin who lead a eco-citizens group to stop the city from sidewalk and gutter improvements and additions. He didn't especially want gutters...you know, cause the rain needs natural disbursement...and I like a flooded basement...Now that is die-hard anti-dvelopment.
Just down the street there is a ten-twelve story building right behind drunken fish at Maryland...park east the other way...highrises up lindell...
I am under the impression that with 98 mil invested, nearly twice that of PE this thing will have a broader profile, not quite so delicate. Height to width ratio won't be as high. 200 units, about the same height and 90% more investment...this should be a large building in all aspects.
Arch, you did all my complaining and pointing out of the obvious for me. People in the city really make me stop for a moment and say "huh."
Opus and the city will get this through, I don't think the few residents objecting will put up enough to stop this.
One note on the design I do have to complain about. I'm sure the brick and stuff on the exterior will look good, because Opus has good designs, but the CWE should be an area that uses cutting edge designs. Maybe that is their way of appeasing the neighbors a bit.
One note on the design I do have to complain about. I'm sure the brick and stuff on the exterior will look good, because Opus has good designs, but the CWE should be an area that uses cutting edge designs. Maybe that is their way of appeasing the neighbors a bit.
actually i think the central west end is an area where traditional high density development is fine. There are a lot of historic structures where new construction should be encouraged to fit in. I actually don't think the Park East Tower is all that cutting edge. I find it to be kind of a modern nod to the Continental. However, I do think if there is an area in the city where cutting edge design should be encouraged it is Grand Center.
I Definately agree about grand center. I just meant cutting edge for St. Louis, not the world.
Below are some pictures taken by JivecitySTL.
This picture shows the Chase Park Plaza building tower (on Kingshighway) looming over structures along Maryland and Euclid Aves.
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Next is a picture of the high-rise density in the CWE. Behind the tallest building to the immediate left is where Opus' 28-story tower could rise.
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Picture of high-rise corridor along Lindell.
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Looking west. The tower would rise on the far background right.
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Below is a cheesy overview I did of where the new towers are being built and proposed.
![]()
Looking at the photos, I don't see how either project could be considered out of place.
Again, thanks to JivecitySTL for the photos.
This picture shows the Chase Park Plaza building tower (on Kingshighway) looming over structures along Maryland and Euclid Aves.

Next is a picture of the high-rise density in the CWE. Behind the tallest building to the immediate left is where Opus' 28-story tower could rise.

Picture of high-rise corridor along Lindell.

Looking west. The tower would rise on the far background right.

Below is a cheesy overview I did of where the new towers are being built and proposed.

Looking at the photos, I don't see how either project could be considered out of place.
Again, thanks to JivecitySTL for the photos.
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Thanks for that overview Arch, it helps putting everything into prospective. 
Arch City's graphic plainly shows that a tower this tall would not be out of place. So, let me get this straight, now, a member of the CWE Association's P&D committee is concerned about height---in a high rise neigborhood??? Am I missing something here? No, I don't think I am, but someone else is. Any neighborhood would welcome growth, and one like the CWE should grow, and going up is only a natural evolution. Since this is THE highrise residential area in St. Louis, it seems ludicrous that someone would be worried about 28 stories, or even 58 stories for that matter, not fitting in. People that worry or complain about multistory buildings being built (other than neighborhoods like Lafayette Square and few other exceptions) that would be noticeably taller than their neighbooring structures should maybe consider moving out of the city or the neighborhoods I mentioned as exceptions. Building taller buildings is the natural progression of an urban neighborhood and to twart it, especially in this neighborhood, is counterproductive. Or, has St. Louis been stagnant for so long that some minds have stagnated too?
You nailed it. St. Louis has been in decline for so long that people do not understand that people could possibly want to build new and tall buildings, and that people would actually want to live here. That's why the young people and new blood are so important to the revitalization of St. Louis.
MattnSTL - don't count us old folks out
. We have been fighting the fools for years.
But, you are right, the young people are bringing new energy and new ideas to St. Louis and we need them.
But, you are right, the young people are bringing new energy and new ideas to St. Louis and we need them.
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More buildings, but with apartments ranging in cost for $500 and up, and condos from $80,000. Small is perfect with at least 600 square feet and a balcony. I'm glad they want to put up units for $300,000 which is an improvement from Park East and $600,000 but those prices are still HIGH.
Not everyone at BJC, WashU, and the many other businesses can afford those prices especially if they send their kids to private and catholic schools.
Inclusionary zoning? I need to become a developer.
Not everyone at BJC, WashU, and the many other businesses can afford those prices especially if they send their kids to private and catholic schools.
Inclusionary zoning? I need to become a developer.
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^Exactly, I love it that we are picking up steam in regards to residential but the prices are starting to take their toll on my current pocket book...
I wish we could get some lower priced lofts downtown as well.
I wish we could get some lower priced lofts downtown as well.
Ah, the price of success...when something comes into demand, the prices go up. No arguing that point. I love the fact that the city has finally made a turn around, but what makes our (or any) city great is diversity. We need good low priced housing just as much as we need the $600,000 lofts and condos, and I don't mean entire neighborhoods earmarked as "this is where ther rich people live, this is where the medium income people live, this is where the poor live". I wish that every new development would include the pricey, the mid range, and smaller affordable units for those who can't afford the to-die-for units, something like Laclede town was in the begininng with the exception being that these would be condos instead of rental units.
There is good news regarding prices. These new condos may be selling in the $300s, but the Central West End already offers condos in high quality existing buildings with good amenities & good views, at half that price and some even less than half - so I don't feel Opus needs to offer cheap units to keep the neighborhood balanced. The CWE appears to be very diverse in pricing for such a high quality neighborhood. And people wanting to spend even less can find exellent neighborhoods nearby. There is a market for high end condos in the CWE, but you can still find some nice entry level properties.
SMS & Midcoast, one of you mentions $80,000 and the other downtown. Check out <A HREF="http://www.urbanstl.com/viewtopic.php?t=1041">the Ford</A> downtown. It will offer excellent views and location.
Marmar, Laclede Town was a horrible disaster, so it doesn't make a good example for your argument, but I understand your point.
SMS & Midcoast, one of you mentions $80,000 and the other downtown. Check out <A HREF="http://www.urbanstl.com/viewtopic.php?t=1041">the Ford</A> downtown. It will offer excellent views and location.
Marmar, Laclede Town was a horrible disaster, so it doesn't make a good example for your argument, but I understand your point.
- 10K
And some unbelievable deals can still be had mere blocks from the CWE, if you're willing to go either north of Delmar or to Forest Park Southeast.
The West End Word this week printed a letter from some NIMBY who thinks this new tower should be "stopped in its tracks". It will be a "behemouth towering over the CWE", it will "dwarf the Cathedral", it will "lower property values", etc., etc.
They even complain about "preserving building height around Maryland Plaza", apparently unaware that the Park Plaza is 27 stories tall!
They even complain about "preserving building height around Maryland Plaza", apparently unaware that the Park Plaza is 27 stories tall!
These buildings are going to cause property values to rocket. High rises encroaching the Cathedral? The Cathedral is already surrounded by high rises. If they want a Cathedral surrounded by an open field, it's too late. Poor foolish NIMBY. He can't even think of a valid argument.








