^^Can we have a quote of the week thread? That was great
- 2,928
The only way I could ever appreciate Larry Rice was if they had filmed The Wire in Saint Louis instead of Baltimore; with as power-hungry and entrenched as he is, they most definitely would have had enough high quality story lines for a sixth season.
And remember that, although he says he’s a reverend, what Jesus would do is not necessarily what Larry Rice would do.
And remember that, although he says he’s a reverend, what Jesus would do is not necessarily what Larry Rice would do.
This past weekend Lucas park was atrocious with trash everywhere, public urination, fights, swearing, sidewalk blockage, general harassment...
Does anyone know how Larry's NLEC is licensed or permitted to be a "boarding house"?
From:
http://www.slpl.lib.mo.us/cco/code/data/t1172.htm
Looks like this was specifically written for Larry Rice... All we need to do is get a petition going from the residents and the surrounding business owners (nearby) within 400 feet (est.) to get a public hearing.
We will need photos, testimony, and documentation to provide to the board.
St. Louis City Revised Code Chapter 11.72
Chapter 11.72
ROOMINGHOUSE OR HOTEL DETRIMENTAL TO NEIGHBORHOOD
Sections:
11.72.010Petition for hearing.
11.72.020Hearing notice.
11.72.030Verification of petition signatures.
11.72.040Hearing conduct.
11.72.050Determination of detrimental operation of premises.
11.72.060Petition after denial of permit.
11.72.070Permit reissuance for premises after revocation.
11.72.080Workshop or residence facility exempted.
11.72.010 Petition for hearing.
The Board of Public Service, upon receipt by the Secretary of the Board of Public Service of a petition signed by either a majority of the persons owning real property or a majority of the registered voters occupying property within a prescribed petition circle drawn with a radius of three hundred fifty (350) feet plus one-half (1/2) of the width of the premises involved from the center of the front of said premises projected to the street alleging that the operation of the premises involved, which is being operated as a rooming house, boarding house, dormitory or hotel, is being operated in such manner, as factually set out in said petition, to constitute a detriment to the neighborhood, shall hold a public hearing based on said petition. (Ord. 61971 § 1 1990.)
11.72.020 Hearing notice.
The Board of Public Service shall set a reasonable time for the hearing on said petition, shall give adequate public notice thereof, and shall give notice to the person or persons who owns or operates the premises involved in writing with a copy of said petition by Certified Mail. (Ord. 61971 § 2, 1990.)
11.72.030 Verification of petition signatures.
The Board of Public Service shall appoint one of its employees to check the petition filed in each proceeding and verify the signatures appearing thereon with the property owners whose names appear on the Assessor’s records, or the registered voters whose names appear on the Board of Election Commissioner’s records, as the case may be, and if such persons constitute a majority of property owners or registered voters in said petition circle. A report thereof shall be made at the public hearing before any testimony is received at said hearing. (Ord. 61971 § 3, 1990.)
11.72.040 Hearing conduct.
The hearing shall be conducted in the same manner as the Board of Public Service conducts its weekly public meetings. If a majority of the Members of the Board of Public Service present at said hearing on the petition shall decide that the operation of the premises involved constitutes a detriment to the neighborhood, they shall set out in their written order the facts on which their decision is based and the time limit or conditions of suspension, or revocation of said permit to operate said rooming house, boarding house, dormitory or hotel. A copy of said order shall be published in the City Journal and sent by Certified Mail to the owner or operator of the premises involved. Any person adversely affected by said order shall have a right of Judicial Review as provided by Section 536.100 R.S.Mo. 1986, as supplemented. (Ord. 61971 § 4, 1990.)
11.72.050 Determination of detrimental operation of premises.
A. In determining whether the operation of a premises is detrimental to the neighborhood in which the premises is located the Board of Public Service shall consider the following factors, giving such weight thereto as they deem appropriate:
1. The character of the neighborhood in which the premises is located, with particular consideration being given to the proximity of the premises to parks, churches, schools, playgrounds, residences and hospitals;
2. Loitering in the immediate vicinity of the premises by persons frequenting the premises;
3. Littering committed by persons frequenting the premises or by the permit holder, his agents, servants or employees;
4. Drinking in public by persons frequenting the premises;
5. Lewd and indecent conduct, including but not limited to public urination, exhibited by persons frequenting the premises or by permit holder, his employees, servants or agents, whether such behavior occurs on the premises or in the immediate vicinity thereof;
6. Commission of crimes upon or in the immediate vicinity of a premises by persons frequenting the premises or by the permit holder, his employees, servants or agents;
7. Sale or use of illegal drugs upon or in the immediate vicinity of the premises by persons frequenting the premises or by the permit holder, his employees, servants or agents;
8. Harassing or intimidating behavior exhibited by persons frequenting or congregating about the premises toward persons living in the neighborhood in which the premises is located or toward persons passing by the premises;
9. Noise associated with the operation of the premises or caused by persons frequenting the premises;
10. Street and sidewalk congestion associated with operation of the premises;
11. Existence of proper lighting and appropriate parking facilities, or the lack thereof;
12. Other facilities, which, due to the character of the neighborhood or of the premises, would be relevant to the determination of whether continuation of a permit would be detrimental to the neighborhood in which the premises is located.
B. The Board of Public Service may find that continuation of a permit would be detrimental to the neighborhood in which a premises is located without finding that such detriment is or would be due to the fault or negligence, or is or would be the responsibility, of the permit holder. For purposes of this chapter, a person shall be considered to frequent a premises if he lives or works at, or visits the premises or if he loiters about the immediate vicinity of the premises but would not do so except for the existence of the premises. (Ord. 61971 § 5, 1990.)
11.72.060 Petition after denial of permit.
No petition to suspend or revoke a permit to operate a rooming house, boarding house, dormitory or hotel under the provisions of this chapter shall be accepted by the Secretary of the Board of Public Service for a period of six months after the Board of Public Service has denied, after a hearing, a previous petition to suspend or revoke such a permit for the same premises. (Ord. 61971 § 6, 1990.)
11.72.070 Permit reissuance for premises after revocation.
Notwithstanding Ordinance 60828, approved April 11, 1988 (Section 25.04.060), no application shall be accepted by the Secretary of the Board of Public Service for a permit to operate a rooming house, boarding house, dormitory or hotel for a period of six (6) months after the Board of Public Service has revoked, after a hearing, a previous permit for any such uses for the same premises. (Ord. 61971 § 7, 1990.)
11.72.080 Workshop or residence facility exempted.
This chapter shall not be construed to allow the filing of a petition to suspend or revoke the permit of a sheltered workshop or residence facility authorized by Sections 205.968 to 205.973 R.S.Mo. 1986, as supplemented. (Ord. 61971 § 8, 1990.)
Does anyone know how Larry's NLEC is licensed or permitted to be a "boarding house"?
From:
http://www.slpl.lib.mo.us/cco/code/data/t1172.htm
Looks like this was specifically written for Larry Rice... All we need to do is get a petition going from the residents and the surrounding business owners (nearby) within 400 feet (est.) to get a public hearing.
We will need photos, testimony, and documentation to provide to the board.
St. Louis City Revised Code Chapter 11.72
Chapter 11.72
ROOMINGHOUSE OR HOTEL DETRIMENTAL TO NEIGHBORHOOD
Sections:
11.72.010Petition for hearing.
11.72.020Hearing notice.
11.72.030Verification of petition signatures.
11.72.040Hearing conduct.
11.72.050Determination of detrimental operation of premises.
11.72.060Petition after denial of permit.
11.72.070Permit reissuance for premises after revocation.
11.72.080Workshop or residence facility exempted.
11.72.010 Petition for hearing.
The Board of Public Service, upon receipt by the Secretary of the Board of Public Service of a petition signed by either a majority of the persons owning real property or a majority of the registered voters occupying property within a prescribed petition circle drawn with a radius of three hundred fifty (350) feet plus one-half (1/2) of the width of the premises involved from the center of the front of said premises projected to the street alleging that the operation of the premises involved, which is being operated as a rooming house, boarding house, dormitory or hotel, is being operated in such manner, as factually set out in said petition, to constitute a detriment to the neighborhood, shall hold a public hearing based on said petition. (Ord. 61971 § 1 1990.)
11.72.020 Hearing notice.
The Board of Public Service shall set a reasonable time for the hearing on said petition, shall give adequate public notice thereof, and shall give notice to the person or persons who owns or operates the premises involved in writing with a copy of said petition by Certified Mail. (Ord. 61971 § 2, 1990.)
11.72.030 Verification of petition signatures.
The Board of Public Service shall appoint one of its employees to check the petition filed in each proceeding and verify the signatures appearing thereon with the property owners whose names appear on the Assessor’s records, or the registered voters whose names appear on the Board of Election Commissioner’s records, as the case may be, and if such persons constitute a majority of property owners or registered voters in said petition circle. A report thereof shall be made at the public hearing before any testimony is received at said hearing. (Ord. 61971 § 3, 1990.)
11.72.040 Hearing conduct.
The hearing shall be conducted in the same manner as the Board of Public Service conducts its weekly public meetings. If a majority of the Members of the Board of Public Service present at said hearing on the petition shall decide that the operation of the premises involved constitutes a detriment to the neighborhood, they shall set out in their written order the facts on which their decision is based and the time limit or conditions of suspension, or revocation of said permit to operate said rooming house, boarding house, dormitory or hotel. A copy of said order shall be published in the City Journal and sent by Certified Mail to the owner or operator of the premises involved. Any person adversely affected by said order shall have a right of Judicial Review as provided by Section 536.100 R.S.Mo. 1986, as supplemented. (Ord. 61971 § 4, 1990.)
11.72.050 Determination of detrimental operation of premises.
A. In determining whether the operation of a premises is detrimental to the neighborhood in which the premises is located the Board of Public Service shall consider the following factors, giving such weight thereto as they deem appropriate:
1. The character of the neighborhood in which the premises is located, with particular consideration being given to the proximity of the premises to parks, churches, schools, playgrounds, residences and hospitals;
2. Loitering in the immediate vicinity of the premises by persons frequenting the premises;
3. Littering committed by persons frequenting the premises or by the permit holder, his agents, servants or employees;
4. Drinking in public by persons frequenting the premises;
5. Lewd and indecent conduct, including but not limited to public urination, exhibited by persons frequenting the premises or by permit holder, his employees, servants or agents, whether such behavior occurs on the premises or in the immediate vicinity thereof;
6. Commission of crimes upon or in the immediate vicinity of a premises by persons frequenting the premises or by the permit holder, his employees, servants or agents;
7. Sale or use of illegal drugs upon or in the immediate vicinity of the premises by persons frequenting the premises or by the permit holder, his employees, servants or agents;
8. Harassing or intimidating behavior exhibited by persons frequenting or congregating about the premises toward persons living in the neighborhood in which the premises is located or toward persons passing by the premises;
9. Noise associated with the operation of the premises or caused by persons frequenting the premises;
10. Street and sidewalk congestion associated with operation of the premises;
11. Existence of proper lighting and appropriate parking facilities, or the lack thereof;
12. Other facilities, which, due to the character of the neighborhood or of the premises, would be relevant to the determination of whether continuation of a permit would be detrimental to the neighborhood in which the premises is located.
B. The Board of Public Service may find that continuation of a permit would be detrimental to the neighborhood in which a premises is located without finding that such detriment is or would be due to the fault or negligence, or is or would be the responsibility, of the permit holder. For purposes of this chapter, a person shall be considered to frequent a premises if he lives or works at, or visits the premises or if he loiters about the immediate vicinity of the premises but would not do so except for the existence of the premises. (Ord. 61971 § 5, 1990.)
11.72.060 Petition after denial of permit.
No petition to suspend or revoke a permit to operate a rooming house, boarding house, dormitory or hotel under the provisions of this chapter shall be accepted by the Secretary of the Board of Public Service for a period of six months after the Board of Public Service has denied, after a hearing, a previous petition to suspend or revoke such a permit for the same premises. (Ord. 61971 § 6, 1990.)
11.72.070 Permit reissuance for premises after revocation.
Notwithstanding Ordinance 60828, approved April 11, 1988 (Section 25.04.060), no application shall be accepted by the Secretary of the Board of Public Service for a permit to operate a rooming house, boarding house, dormitory or hotel for a period of six (6) months after the Board of Public Service has revoked, after a hearing, a previous permit for any such uses for the same premises. (Ord. 61971 § 7, 1990.)
11.72.080 Workshop or residence facility exempted.
This chapter shall not be construed to allow the filing of a petition to suspend or revoke the permit of a sheltered workshop or residence facility authorized by Sections 205.968 to 205.973 R.S.Mo. 1986, as supplemented. (Ord. 61971 § 8, 1990.)
I would think most loft dwellers in neighboring properties would sign such a petition, NLEC is a major problem. Rice doesnt treat the homeless with dignity and try to teach them a skill, he just warehouses them like canned goods.
From the CSB:
New Life Evangelistic Center Inc. has a permit to operate a hotel at 1411 Locust. That is the only permit that I see. You will have to call Citizens Service Bureau to make complaints before their permit can be revoked.
From the NSO (Jimmie Miller) for Ward 6: MillerJ@stlouiscity.com
Do call the Police and Citizen Service Bureau (622-4800) whenever a situation as mentioned occurs. Police calls for service is very important to identify there is a problem, and not just an isolated incidence. CSB will send work orders to the City Departments that will address the other issues.
Therefore:
We need to start calling into the city concerning situations such as loitering, harrassment, sidewalk barriers, feedings, etc.
It is imperative for documentation purposes. Each and every call adds up.
So if you're walking around NLEC / Lucas park / Washington Avenue and you notice anything it is imperative that we start making complaints to the city. It's not to harass the city, they just require documentation.
I've put the following phone numbers in my cell and am taking pictures and making a phone call each time I observe nuisance behavior.
314-231-1212 (police non-emergency line, feedings, public urination)
911 (for emergencies only (fights, drug use, prostitution, etc.)
314-622-4800 for the CSB (trash, camping, etc.)
I have a template for a petition that I will be distributing later this week to businesses and residences that surround NLEC.
New Life Evangelistic Center Inc. has a permit to operate a hotel at 1411 Locust. That is the only permit that I see. You will have to call Citizens Service Bureau to make complaints before their permit can be revoked.
From the NSO (Jimmie Miller) for Ward 6: MillerJ@stlouiscity.com
Do call the Police and Citizen Service Bureau (622-4800) whenever a situation as mentioned occurs. Police calls for service is very important to identify there is a problem, and not just an isolated incidence. CSB will send work orders to the City Departments that will address the other issues.
Therefore:
We need to start calling into the city concerning situations such as loitering, harrassment, sidewalk barriers, feedings, etc.
It is imperative for documentation purposes. Each and every call adds up.
So if you're walking around NLEC / Lucas park / Washington Avenue and you notice anything it is imperative that we start making complaints to the city. It's not to harass the city, they just require documentation.
I've put the following phone numbers in my cell and am taking pictures and making a phone call each time I observe nuisance behavior.
314-231-1212 (police non-emergency line, feedings, public urination)
911 (for emergencies only (fights, drug use, prostitution, etc.)
314-622-4800 for the CSB (trash, camping, etc.)
I have a template for a petition that I will be distributing later this week to businesses and residences that surround NLEC.
Here's a list of contact numbers for feedings...
Bureau of Environmental Health at
314-612-5300 (M-F) 8-5pm
After hours / weekends / holidays contact:
On-call duty officer for the Department of Health at
314-807-8082
pager: 314-990-2566
Indicate that 1411 Locust is a nuisance property and that if it wasn't there these nuisances would be less prevalent.
I would also like to give some kudos to CPD District 4 as they have been quite responsive and helpful (and not just in these cases). They are walking a very fine line very well.
On a side note, while calling the police department, I videoed a fight between the homeless at Lucas park which I showed the officer.
Bureau of Environmental Health at
314-612-5300 (M-F) 8-5pm
After hours / weekends / holidays contact:
On-call duty officer for the Department of Health at
314-807-8082
pager: 314-990-2566
Indicate that 1411 Locust is a nuisance property and that if it wasn't there these nuisances would be less prevalent.
I would also like to give some kudos to CPD District 4 as they have been quite responsive and helpful (and not just in these cases). They are walking a very fine line very well.
On a side note, while calling the police department, I videoed a fight between the homeless at Lucas park which I showed the officer.
Here's another phone number for additional responses.
314-289-5350 (Park Ranger)
I called this weekend and had the City Board of Health, the Park Ranger, and the Police come to disperse the public feedings, sermons, homeless distributions of goods.
I'm also taking pictures and videos and they really don't like it. I actually confronted a homeless guy who threw his Colt 45 beer can on the ground and his response to me was, "Well the city cleans the park each day so why not?"
The preacher that was out there said he wasn't responsible to the city law only "God's Law" I really hope he told the cops that because somehow, I don't think they would see the same way.
It was especially bad on Sunday as there were close to 150 homeless in the S&H parking lot next to NLEC and in the park, throwing trash, etc.
I should have the petition ready to go this week and will be sending out links and delivering it to the residences and businesses as well.
Oh and here's a couple more:
Regarding the port-o-potties out back of NLEC:
Check out Chapter
11.16.020 Maintenance of leaking, filthy or defective privies.
" Any owner, lessee, tenant or agent of any building or lot of ground in the city who shall maintain or allow to exist about or on such building or lot of ground any privy, privy vault, commode, cesspool or water closet which shall be found in an overflowing, leaking, full, filthy, stinking, insecure, defective or unlawful condition shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor. (1948 C. Ch. 53 § 2: 1960 C. § 502.020.)"
11.16.080 Enforcement.
"It is hereby made the duty of all sanitary and police officers to report and prosecute any and all violations of this chapter. (1948 C. Ch. 53 § 9: 1960 C. § 502.090.)"
http://previous.slpl.org/cco/code/data/t1116.htm
AND (This is a good one...)
http://previous.slpl.org/cco/code/data/t1107.htm
11.07.010 Findings.
"It is hereby determined and declared by the board of aldermen that in certain portions of the city obsolete areas exist occasioned by defective design or arrangement of buildings, or the existence of buildings, which, by reason of age, obsolescence, or physical deterioration, have impaired the economic value of areas, and retarded private investment thereon, and such areas are characterized by depreciated values, impaired investments, reduced or negligible income and consequent tax delinquencies; that such conditions are conducive to economic and social liabilities; that the existence of such conditions result in progressive deterioration, loss of population, demolition of residential structures, causes a wasteful expenditure of public funds for policing and delivery of services; that it is possible for individual owners to independently undertake to remedy such conditions; such conditions require the employment of capital on an investment basis; that the rehabilitation and reconstruction of such areas needs to be encouraged on a large-scale basis by private property owners; and that such obsolete areas constitute a menace to the health, safety, morals, and welfare of the citizens of the city. Therefore, the necessity for the provisions herein enacted is hereby declared as a matter of legislative determination to be in the public interest. (Ord. 57974 § 1, 1980.)"
11.07.030 Procedure for designating area obsolete.
"Any area in the city may be designated as an obsolete district in the following manner:
A. An application shall be submitted to the director of the community development agency. Such application may be submitted by the following:
1. The alderman of the ward within which the proposed area is located; or
2. By a petition signed by 51% or more of the property owners, or by 25 property owners, whichever is less, located within the proposed district.
B. The director of the community development agency, upon receipt of said application shall forthwith, in writing, notify the mayor and the clerk of the board of aldermen that the director has received such an application. (Ord. 57974 § 3, 1980.)"
314-289-5350 (Park Ranger)
I called this weekend and had the City Board of Health, the Park Ranger, and the Police come to disperse the public feedings, sermons, homeless distributions of goods.
I'm also taking pictures and videos and they really don't like it. I actually confronted a homeless guy who threw his Colt 45 beer can on the ground and his response to me was, "Well the city cleans the park each day so why not?"
The preacher that was out there said he wasn't responsible to the city law only "God's Law" I really hope he told the cops that because somehow, I don't think they would see the same way.
It was especially bad on Sunday as there were close to 150 homeless in the S&H parking lot next to NLEC and in the park, throwing trash, etc.
I should have the petition ready to go this week and will be sending out links and delivering it to the residences and businesses as well.
Oh and here's a couple more:
Regarding the port-o-potties out back of NLEC:
Check out Chapter
11.16.020 Maintenance of leaking, filthy or defective privies.
" Any owner, lessee, tenant or agent of any building or lot of ground in the city who shall maintain or allow to exist about or on such building or lot of ground any privy, privy vault, commode, cesspool or water closet which shall be found in an overflowing, leaking, full, filthy, stinking, insecure, defective or unlawful condition shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor. (1948 C. Ch. 53 § 2: 1960 C. § 502.020.)"
11.16.080 Enforcement.
"It is hereby made the duty of all sanitary and police officers to report and prosecute any and all violations of this chapter. (1948 C. Ch. 53 § 9: 1960 C. § 502.090.)"
http://previous.slpl.org/cco/code/data/t1116.htm
AND (This is a good one...)
http://previous.slpl.org/cco/code/data/t1107.htm
11.07.010 Findings.
"It is hereby determined and declared by the board of aldermen that in certain portions of the city obsolete areas exist occasioned by defective design or arrangement of buildings, or the existence of buildings, which, by reason of age, obsolescence, or physical deterioration, have impaired the economic value of areas, and retarded private investment thereon, and such areas are characterized by depreciated values, impaired investments, reduced or negligible income and consequent tax delinquencies; that such conditions are conducive to economic and social liabilities; that the existence of such conditions result in progressive deterioration, loss of population, demolition of residential structures, causes a wasteful expenditure of public funds for policing and delivery of services; that it is possible for individual owners to independently undertake to remedy such conditions; such conditions require the employment of capital on an investment basis; that the rehabilitation and reconstruction of such areas needs to be encouraged on a large-scale basis by private property owners; and that such obsolete areas constitute a menace to the health, safety, morals, and welfare of the citizens of the city. Therefore, the necessity for the provisions herein enacted is hereby declared as a matter of legislative determination to be in the public interest. (Ord. 57974 § 1, 1980.)"
11.07.030 Procedure for designating area obsolete.
"Any area in the city may be designated as an obsolete district in the following manner:
A. An application shall be submitted to the director of the community development agency. Such application may be submitted by the following:
1. The alderman of the ward within which the proposed area is located; or
2. By a petition signed by 51% or more of the property owners, or by 25 property owners, whichever is less, located within the proposed district.
B. The director of the community development agency, upon receipt of said application shall forthwith, in writing, notify the mayor and the clerk of the board of aldermen that the director has received such an application. (Ord. 57974 § 3, 1980.)"
Another idea would be to get in touch with each of the condo associations for the washington avenue condo buildings, I am sure most would help you circulate your petition.
NLEC is not productive like the St. Patrick Center or Centenary Methodist, it is simply a warehouse for people. It is really undignified and counterproductive to any societal interest.
NLEC is not productive like the St. Patrick Center or Centenary Methodist, it is simply a warehouse for people. It is really undignified and counterproductive to any societal interest.
Has anyone seen people busing in the homeless from other areas to NLEC?
I heard there was something like a bus every 2 weeks or so to build up the numbers in his shelter?
I heard there was something like a bus every 2 weeks or so to build up the numbers in his shelter?
The petiton is now being distributed up and down Washington Ave. to residents, restaurants, and shops. Feel free to ask around about it and if you agree that NLEC is detrimental to our neighborhood, sign it. The more signatures, the better.
This is a very suburban NIMBY mentality. The same rationale categorized African Americans as a detriment to the neighborhood thereby denying them loans and residence. Perhaps instead we should address the root causes of homelessness instead of pushing the problem to other areas of the City or another municipality? But then again actually solving problems isn't politically popular.
Perhaps the solution is actual residence and the opportunity for a job? I hate Larry Rice as much as the next, but evicting him will only put the problem elsewhere. That again is a very suburban, proximate solution! Will Downtown turn into Chesterfield with cornices?
Perhaps the solution is actual residence and the opportunity for a job? I hate Larry Rice as much as the next, but evicting him will only put the problem elsewhere. That again is a very suburban, proximate solution! Will Downtown turn into Chesterfield with cornices?
- 6,775
Doug wrote:This is a very suburban NIMBY mentality. The same rationale categorized African Americans as a detriment to the neighborhood thereby denying them loans and residence. Perhaps instead we should address the root causes of homelessness instead of pushing the problem to other areas of the City or another municipality? But then again actually solving problems isn't politically popular.
Perhaps the solution is actual residence and the opportunity for a job? I hate Larry Rice as much as the next, but evicting him will only put the problem elsewhere. That again is a very suburban, proximate solution! Will Downtown turn into Chesterfield with cornices?
Good. As long as we get rid of them, you can call it whatever you want.
This is not a suburban NIMBY mentality, this is an opposition the way the NLEC is run and operated. You don't see any public opposition to the St. Patrick Center do you? The NLEC is the furthest thing from "help" being offered to these people; ever heard of the term enabling. This is not an opposition to institutions offering legitimate help to those in need, but rather an oppositon to a warehouse that allows needy and desperate people to continue destructive behaviors to themselves and the surrounding community.
The Central Scrutinizer wrote:Doug wrote:This is a very suburban NIMBY mentality. The same rationale categorized African Americans as a detriment to the neighborhood thereby denying them loans and residence. Perhaps instead we should address the root causes of homelessness instead of pushing the problem to other areas of the City or another municipality? But then again actually solving problems isn't politically popular.
Perhaps the solution is actual residence and the opportunity for a job? I hate Larry Rice as much as the next, but evicting him will only put the problem elsewhere. That again is a very suburban, proximate solution! Will Downtown turn into Chesterfield with cornices?
Good. As long as we get rid of them, you can call it whatever you want.
LOL. OK, at least we know the true agenda now.
Regarding St. Patrick's Center, which is a great organization, they don't have a shelter. That is a minor (and by "minor" I mean "major") difference between NLEC and SPC.
Here's the link for filing FCC complaints against KNLC 24:
http://esupport.fcc.gov/complaints.htm
Such as the advocation of breaking the law by feeding the homeless in the park without a permit, running a pre-recorded telethon without indicating that it was pre-recorded, personal attacks made on his television station against individuals that attack character, integrity, etc.
Specifically violations of Sec. 73.1208 Broadcast of taped, filmed, or recorded material.
(e.g. his "telethons" which create the impression of it happening "live")
http://frwebgate2.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bi ... n=retrieve
http://esupport.fcc.gov/complaints.htm
Such as the advocation of breaking the law by feeding the homeless in the park without a permit, running a pre-recorded telethon without indicating that it was pre-recorded, personal attacks made on his television station against individuals that attack character, integrity, etc.
Specifically violations of Sec. 73.1208 Broadcast of taped, filmed, or recorded material.
(e.g. his "telethons" which create the impression of it happening "live")
http://frwebgate2.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bi ... n=retrieve
This is a very suburban NIMBY mentality. The same rationale categorized African Americans as a detriment to the neighborhood thereby denying them loans and residence. Perhaps instead we should address the root causes of homelessness instead of pushing the problem to other areas of the City or another municipality? But then again actually solving problems isn't politically popular.
How do we "solve" homelessness? If you've got the answer I'd say you're going to be a popular person very soon.
I believe your comparison is flawed. Littering, fighting, harassing neighbors and degrading the quality of life actually IS a detriment to the neighborhood and is a reality and should be addressed.
I believe your comparison is flawed. Littering, fighting, harassing neighbors and degrading the quality of life actually IS a detriment to the neighborhood and is a reality and should be addressed.
well said!
olvidarte wrote: Littering, fighting, harassing neighbors and degrading the quality of life actually IS a detriment to the neighborhood and is a reality and should be addressed.
Agreed. What drives so many from the City is our indulgence of conduct that harms our basic quality of life.
We urban dwellers seem to have this incredible fear of hurting someone's feelings. It's like a distant cousin of the battered person syndrome. "It must be our fault. It must be our fault."
olvidarte wrote:How do we "solve" homelessness? If you've got the answer I'd say you're going to be a popular person very soon.
In the words of George Carlin:
It is easy to solve homelessness. Show the greedy porks of corporate America and the crooked politicians how to make money out of that, and you will see homelessness disappear overnight.
STLDTFAN wrote:
In the words of George Carlin:
It is easy to solve homelessness. Show the greedy porks of corporate America and the crooked politicians how to make money out of that, and you will see homelessness disappear overnight.
George Carlin also argued for building housing on golf courses to combat homelessness.
Catchy. Stupid, but catchy.
Leave my Golf courses out of this 
Homelessness forced due to temporary circumstances (loss of job, hard times due to illness) are easier to solve than chronic homelessness due to drug or alcohol abuse and mentally sick people. Rich and Poor have existed in society since the dawn of time. Only difference is we "civilized" people have a greater empathy towards poorest of the poor and that has led to visibility of this issue amongst the civil educated. This is not a "new" problem, but we do have new(er) predators like Rice that build on the problem rather than try to work with the homeless like St. Patrick does.
As for Carlin's comments, beneath the sarcasm (stupid as some statements are) you will find an element of truth.
Homelessness forced due to temporary circumstances (loss of job, hard times due to illness) are easier to solve than chronic homelessness due to drug or alcohol abuse and mentally sick people. Rich and Poor have existed in society since the dawn of time. Only difference is we "civilized" people have a greater empathy towards poorest of the poor and that has led to visibility of this issue amongst the civil educated. This is not a "new" problem, but we do have new(er) predators like Rice that build on the problem rather than try to work with the homeless like St. Patrick does.
As for Carlin's comments, beneath the sarcasm (stupid as some statements are) you will find an element of truth.
Larry rice is part of the problem, not part of any solution. In his ideal world everybody would be homeless. In my ideal world we would get the homeless working and able to afford a home. This is a major difference.
mophipsi wrote:Larry rice is part of the problem, not part of any solution. In his ideal world everybody would be homeless. In my ideal world we would get the homeless working and able to afford a home. This is a major difference.
I would agree, I think the old saying is "If you give a man a fish you feed him for a day. If you teach a man to fish you feed him for a lifetime." The biggest problem is some of the homeless (not all, but some) don't want to learn.
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jambalaya wrote:mophipsi wrote:Larry rice is part of the problem, not part of any solution. In his ideal world everybody would be homeless. In my ideal world we would get the homeless working and able to afford a home. This is a major difference.
I would agree, I think the old saying is "If you give a man a fish you feed him for a day. If you teach a man to fish you feed him for a lifetime." The biggest problem is some of the homeless (not all, but some) don't want to learn.
Build a man a fire, he'll be warm for the night.
Set a man on fire, he'll be warm the rest of his life.
Focus: The problem is not homeless people themselves. The problem is Larry Rice's management of the facilities to house them and the detrimental effects that his actions have on the surrounding area and Downtown as a whole. Remember that this is the same guy who wanted the Federal Building next to the Kiel turned into a homeless warehouse. I do not believe the majority of respondents here are against the homeless per se, just Larry Rice's operational mismanagement of a homeless shelter where, if we remember, some guy was stabbed & killed earlier this year.
A major reason SkyHouse isn't being built, I believe, because they couldn't get Larry to take their buyout offers. Not the only one, but a major one. Could you envision selling a $1.5M penthouse condo to someone, noting that their valet garage abutts Larry's port-a-crappers along St. Charles Street?