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PostJan 09, 2021#476

First Missouri Metro 2021 Feature: The Failed Promise of the St. Louis Riverfront – and How We May Yet Achieve It


Laclede's Landing and Chouteau's Landing are some of the main topics I bring up -

https://missouri-metro.com/2021/01/08/s ... ntpromise/

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PostJan 09, 2021#477

The riverfront wasn't cleared for the Arch or even a memorial. It was cleared to reduce the supply of real estate and sold as a Depression-era make-work project. What to do with was to be figured out later.

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PostJan 10, 2021#478

quincunx wrote:
Jan 09, 2021
The riverfront wasn't cleared for the Arch or even a memorial. It was cleared to reduce the supply of real estate and sold as a Depression-era make-work project. What to do with was to be figured out later.
Luther Ely Smith, right?

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PostJan 10, 2021#479

Check out this book

Nextstl - What “The Gateway Arch” by Tracy Campbell Tells Us About St. Louis

https://nextstl.com/2013/05/what-the-ga ... -st-louis/

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PostJan 10, 2021#480

quincunx wrote:
Jan 09, 2021
The riverfront wasn't cleared for the Arch or even a memorial. It was cleared to reduce the supply of real estate and sold as a Depression-era make-work project. What to do with was to be figured out later.
Say it louder for the people in the back. 

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PostJan 11, 2021#481

quincunx wrote:
Jan 09, 2021
The riverfront wasn't cleared for the Arch or even a memorial. It was cleared to reduce the supply of real estate and sold as a Depression-era make-work project. What to do with was to be figured out later.
The old National Park Service Jefferson National Expansion Memorial website had this to say, citing a letter from Franklin Roosevelt to Bernard Dickmann dated February 19. 1934:
President Franklin D. Roosevelt was enthusiastic about the idea, stating that he was "greatly interested in the suggestion for the Jefferson National Expansion Memorial for the St. Louis Riverfront ... I can ... tell you that I like the principle underlying the thought of a memorial to the vision of Thomas Jefferson and the pioneers in the opening up of the Great West."
It goes on to cite a Post Dispatch Story from October 31, 1965 by Terry Dickson entitled "A Monument to Thirty Years of Patience, Perseverance, and Determination":
In April 1934 the committee obtained a state charter as the Jefferson National Expansion Memorial Association and acquired a nonprofit designation.
Is that mistaken? Is the National Park Service misquoting Roosevelt? Is the Post Dispatch in error in reporting that there was an association chartered to create a memorial ? I'll gladly grant that there might well have been ulterior motives and that this was an early example of an ugly trend, but it sure looks like they knew they wanted to build a memorial there from day one. The fact that it was also a depression-era make work project doesn't change the nature of the work they intended to make: building a memorial. The fact that it required "slum clearance" that tidily benefited developers further west also doesn't necessarily change the intent, though it does complicate the motivation.

I think it's more than just a bit of a reach to say it "wasn't cleared for a memorial" when there were clear charters there to say it was; when there was fundraising and enabling legislation. When it was sold to the public as a memorial from the very beginning. There very well might have been (almost certainly were) ulterior motives. There's definitely an ugly side to it. I think we can all agree that the architecture that was lost was worthy stuff. I bet we can even all agree that the thing doubtless displaced people and that the odds are good some of those people were not adequately compensated; that the taking did them real and lasting harm.

But it really was intended to be a memorial. Took a while to raise the funds. (There was a depression on, after all. And then there was a war.) And it took even longer to get it finished. But forty years from start to finish isn't even unreasonable for a project of that size and complexity. After all, look how long it took to get a streetcar built in the Loop. *ducks*

Besides, it came out pretty well in the end. We just need to find a way to invigorate the blocks to the north and south and keep them relevant so that no more of them end up demolished now. (Odds are pretty good maybe only half the buildings in the memorial footprint would survive now even if they hadn't been demolished then. Half is a lot more than none, but let's not pretend this would all be wine and roses without our most famous feature. Ours is always going to be a complicated and flood prone riverfront. The river is a great brown god. And she won't let you forget it.)

Now . . . how do we make it work? A more extensive lid is a great idea, but maybe cheaper would be closing southbound Memorial Drive to all but local traffic between Washington and Spruce. Make it essentially a pedestrian zone. All that's there is some garage and service access and a little bit of street parking. Could the garages be reconfigured? There's already plenty of curb cuts on the west side leading into some or all of them. Maybe the east side could be emergency and service access only. If we were going to have a pedestrian zone, that'd be the place to put it. There's already relatively little traffic there anyway and with the right treatment it would be a great place for street cafes and festivals. Plant trees and shrubs around the depressed section to deaden the sound. Get rid of the street parking. Brick the street over. Make it pretty. Get the cars off as much as possible.

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PostJan 11, 2021#482

Feel free to send a letter to Tracy Campbell
Among the myths Campbell dispels is the notion that city and civic leaders tirelessly campaigned for a tribute to the Louisiana Purchase and our nation’s westward expansion. This is false. What city and civic leaders campaign for was land clearance. Through the 1930’s even the mayor of the city remained indifferent to what was built, suggesting a football stadium for use by Washington University at one point. Some wanted a park and monument, but the motivation for the money behind the campaign was a theory that clearing 37 blocks of the city, for whatever reason, would increase property values in the rest of downtown and the city precisely because people and businesses would be displaced and have to find a new home.

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PostJan 11, 2021#483

^I'm not sure to what you are referring, but it seems like a bit of a reach. Was there any other proposal that had the backing of the President of the United States? Did any other have a legal mechanism in place before the Arch grounds were cleared? Is it just possible that some of the other plans were essentially a fallback should the memorial fall through?

No disrespect, but the fact that planning for a memorial began at the latest by 1934 seems pretty well supported. And the proposals focused on the site of what is now the Arch from the beginning. The presence of competing proposals doesn't really mean the first one wasn't there. It also doesn't make them particularly serious. Likewise the ulterior motives of some parties don't invalidate the clearly articulated intentions of others. I will gladly accept that there was more going on than just the push for the memorial. I find it disingenuous to suggest so much documentation was misleading or false without some pretty compelling evidence. I presume you're referring to Tracy Campbell of U. Kentucky? She seems to have written a book called The Gateway Arch: A Biography. Is this your source?

Until I read it, I doubt there's any point to you and I arguing about it. Her book may be quite well sourced, but without context the sources aren't apparent to me. My sources are pretty reputable historical documents , albeit clearly part of the official narrative, seeing as they were collected by the National Park Service. Maybe you would regard that narrative as discredited at this point, but if so, I'd like to learn why. Probably the best course is for me to read your source. I'll make some effort towards that end so long as I can manage it without lining Jeff Bezos's bedamned pockets.

Until that time, let's say that you're claim is disputed and leave it at that. I will respectfully say I very much suspect there is some real truth in it, even if I'm not ready to dismiss the accepted narrative. There's clearly a dark underbelly to the whole thing. I think we can all agree on that. But . . . this thread is about now and we're way down a rabbit hole here. And arguing the past doesn't fix the riverfront now. Maybe we can start a history thread later.

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PostJan 11, 2021#484

Here's an interview with Dr. Campbell

Stl Public Radio- The Gateway Arch: Architectural Wonder & Example Of Failed Urban Planning’

https://news.stlpublicradio.org/show/st ... n-planning

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PostJan 11, 2021#485

^Not a big fan of the radio interview as a format. I'll look up the book. Probably covers the same material, but in more depth and the ability to satisfy my footnote fetish. ;-) It's not a terribly pricey book, and I bet the library has it. Probably well worth the investment. That said . . . what say you to closing southbound Memorial if ways to deal with the garages can be had? Let's pivot to fixing the now. :)

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PostFeb 03, 2021#486

RIP to the mature street trees on 2nd. Outdoor dining in July just got that much more oppressive




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PostFeb 03, 2021#487

^ Wow, I wonder what that was all about. Per Google street view, it does appear that some of these might have been Ash and Bradford Pear (one is declining due to ash borer, and the other is just a low quality/borderline invasive tree), but something is way better than nothing in this setting. Getting better trees in here will be nice, eventually (if that's the plan), but cutting down street trees that still appeared to be thriving doesn't make a lot of sense.

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PostFeb 03, 2021#488

^ I’d put good money on it being because they were Ash trees or Bradfords. They’re disappearing all over...my parents subdivision probably just had over 200 taken out. Huge tree canopy that covered the street...gone.

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PostFeb 03, 2021#489

I've seen the same thing around here (Soulard).  They took out a ton of trees on the sidewalks in the span of a week, roughly a couple of months ago.  But so far, the stumps are still there with no further action.

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PostFeb 03, 2021#490

^ That's how it was in their subdivision too.  But it took until the next season before the stumps were pulled and new trees were planted.

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PostMar 04, 2021#491

Nextstl - What Should Be: A Re-Energized Landing

https://nextstl.com/2021/03/what-should ... d-landing/

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PostMar 04, 2021#492

^It's a fabulous idea. The theatre would probably drive me a bit crazy if built as drawn, but the basic concept is pretty great. It's all very pretty and the idea is sound. Should fit very well indeed.

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PostMar 04, 2021#493

I love it. Nice job, Mr. Rembecki. 

PostMar 09, 2021#494

This is exactly the type of infill I'd love to see on The Landing (this one is going up in New York). It's got a contemporary  brick and metal-panel façade that works well with the existing brick and cast-iron architecture:




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PostMar 09, 2021#495

^ Yeah that’s real nice.

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PostMar 09, 2021#496

EssTeeEll wrote:
Feb 03, 2021
I've seen the same thing around here (Soulard).  They took out a ton of trees on the sidewalks in the span of a week, roughly a couple of months ago.  But so far, the stumps are still there with no further action.
They also took down a ton of the Bradford Pear trees around MLK and 20th. Like blocks upon blocks of them down and waiting to be taken away.

As much as it sucks to lose trees, they are an invasive species and need to be removed.

https://www.clemson.edu/extension/bradf ... index.html
https://www.news-leader.com/story/news/ ... 311989002/
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/met ... 60572.html

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PostMar 10, 2021#497

^Yeah, that's nice. I could easily see that fitting in here. In fact, at first glance I mistook that for Washington out towards Jefferson somewhere.

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PostApr 30, 2021#498

Any dog know what the holdup is at the Ward Burg Garden? It looks 99% finished other than the missing canopy structure but still fenced off. I haven’t seen workers there in weeks.

The grass lawn landscaping has also become overgrown and needs a trim.

Seriously though, just take down the fences and open it without the canopy. I can’t imagine installing it would take more than a few days.


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PostJun 21, 2021#499

More apartments planned for Lacledes Landing
https://www.stltoday.com/business/local ... 9d263.html


ST. LOUIS — A downtown St. Louis developer plans to add more apartments to Laclede's Landing.

Advantes Development, led by Brian Minges, plans to build 10 apartments and roughly 2,000 square feet of retail space at the Paincourt Building, 813 North Second St.

On Tuesday, the city's Land Clearance for Redevelopment Authority is slated to sign a redevelopment agreement with Advantes that includes 10 years of tax abatement. The Board of Aldermen approved tax abatement for the property late last year.

Minges also has acquired multiple buildings in the Landing with New Legacy Development Partners' David Messner in a bid to revitalize the historic neighborhood.

Advantes Group developed 50 apartments in the Peper Lofts, the Landing’s first major residential project.

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PostJun 21, 2021#500

GoHarvOrGoHome wrote:Anybody know what’s behind the paywall here? The rendering in the thumbnail looks promising.

More apartments planned for Lacledes Landing
https://t.co/ChDgjUz7c3


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LCRA agenda for the month has all the information you need.

https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/government/d ... Packet.pdf

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