framer wrote:My downtown can beat up your downtown.
It is no secret to any of us that central KC is much more healthy than STL. However, STL does face a lot more complex issues than KC ever has or will. Given those setbacks, I think STL is doing quite well. Also of note, STL city's "urban fabric" is much more extensive than that in KC. We also have Clayton, Maplewood, UCITY, and many other areas that KC would have annexed but STL can't. Also, can a moderator change the name of this thread? "Kansas City Happenings" is a better title.
Lets be realistic KC never had to deal with the fallout like St.Louis had and has, theres a reason why St.Louis was much more prosperous at the time. Alls I'm saying is KC has never had to face the obstacles that St.Louis has too and still fight through all the negative image and hatred from people in general. St.Louis carries majority of the states AA population and nearly half of Missouri's economy and with all the fallout St.Louis still manages to still have more fortunate 500 companies within its region its not a knock on KC yes KC is having a great deal of success a renaissance and kudos to them however lets be for real as much as we bash how far St.Louis has fallen its slowly rising and theres a lot of things that are happening here in positives Downtown KC was never like Downtown St.Louis and thats the truth Downtown St.Louis was left for dead. KC doesn't have a North Side. Anyways both cities are completely different and are on different paths to success. I just can't stand when folks in KC and on their forums always say St.Louis tries to act like its a eastern city a city can never act like anything its how St.Louis was influenced and still today i'll take St.Louis and all its ugliness any day than Pittsburgh Detroit, Chicablow Memphis Dallas Kansas City Cincinnati Milwaukee Nashville Louisville Cleveland
again kudos to KC and yes I'm a fan of KC and a toast to their success keep it going.
Lets remember St.Louis isn't far behind.
“Since the One Light groundbreaking, the downtown population has grown from 21,000 to 26,000, and we are rapidly on our way to 33,000 by the end of 2019.
30K-35K is considered by urban planners as the critical mass point needed for a highly functioning downtown. That is, starts to draw broader range of retailers and also not dependent on events to sustain street life.
Wouldn't you base the number on people per square mile rather than an arbitrary definition of "downtown" which can vary greatly from city to city? South City and the CWE are dense (by Midwest standards anyway) and are fairly active - I think the census had a tract in the CWE that was densest in the state in 2010
My apologies. I am genuinely thrilled to see construction in Kansas City, to see success. I also hope we don't make false comparisons, and learn from those that are true. This shouldn't be a popularity contest. KC is really quite a cool place, and Power and Light is bone-fide cool.
Wouldn't you base the number on people per square mile rather than an arbitrary definition of "downtown" which can vary greatly from city to city?
Yeah, and KC's 'Greater Downtown' definition is pretty large. But over 85% of development is occurring within about 5 blocks of the streetcar line (downtown core, about 2 or so sq miles) - bikeshare extends access to the outer developments. It's approaching the critical mass point for a highly functioning downtown, should be realized within a couple more years. That is, highly functional w/out relying on events.
There's a benefit to having a short starter street car line as it compresses more development in that smallish area. It's more like a horizontal elevator connecting downtown districts rather than a commuter line. And because it's free to ride and directly within the street activity, it seamlessly ties together key areas as various downtown 'floors' for those who live within it. It's not about how long it is, it's about how you use it.
Speaking of rails, I do think our Downtown/Midtown would be significantly further along if we had the STL Streetcar. (Might have pulled some momentum from CWE but that's not where we need redevelopment focus imo.) KC Streetcar's impact probably can be overstated, but I don't think there's any question it's been a big help for their downtown boon.
do you know if the Mark Twain Building project has gotten underway? Last I saw the developer said they hoped to start in April... but It's by the same folks (Hudson Holdings) that just bought the Railway Exchange here and that a ton of announced projects in various cities across the country but few seemingly actually underway. Hopefully they are capable but I have doubts.
do you know if the Mark Twain Building project has gotten underway? Last I saw the developer said they hoped to start in April... but It's by the same folks (Hudson Holdings) that just bought the Railway Exchange here and that a ton of announced projects in various cities across the country but few seemingly actually underway. Hopefully they are capable but I have doubts.
Sounds like Hudson is slow moving with projects across country.
Will be interesting to see if downtown KC can continue to build new luxury units at a large scale. They are going well over $2/sqft now, some up to $2.30.
KC has their airport vote coming up Tuesday. I am really curious to see what happens with it. I refuse to connect through their airport because I have heard how bad it is.
The latest numbers I have seen are that is passes (somewhere in the 52 to 55% yes range) but it has been a really hot topic there the last couple years. I think it will pass at this point and maybe easily, but if it doesn't I am curious to see what the airlines do there.
I go to school in KC area and I've made some observations/ comparisons to STL in the past months.
1 SIZE. KC is a big town. I've never been somewhere where the urban fabric just "runs out."
--(Blue Springs to KC core is 19 miles; Wentville to STL is 42).
2. Neighborhoods. Aside the central spine (Downtown, Westport, and Plaza) neighborhoods in KC lack density, placemaking, and structure. I'd compare a lot of them to the density and architectural style of Kirkwood/ Webster Groves. Wider lots--less brick.
3. Vibrancy. Late night options are few and far in between. Coffee joints, eateries, and entertainment venues close at 9/10. (Nothing like Coffee Cartel, Mokabe's, City Diner, Peacock, Courtesy, Uncle Bill's, Blueberry Hill, Flamingo...the list goes on). St. Louis has a lot more 24/7 options whereas KC goes to sleep at night.
4. Nightlife. Bar scene is concentrated in Westport. The bars are upscale and the restaurants are nice, but the neighborhood doesn't really function as a residential area. It's more just a district; drive-to hotspot.
5. Ego. KC people think very, very highly of themselves. When I tell people I want to live in Downtown Stl, they scowl. One said, "Architecture? Are you sure a place as poor as St. Louis has the market to support your profession?" Another asked me why I liked STL so much and insisted "we" should drop an atomic bomb there.
6. Downtown. Dwntwn KC is secretly beautiful. I'm envious of P&L. Lots of activated storefronts. Yet I see less people here than in Downtown STL. They have a CVS!! (Argh).
7 KCI airport is a joke (That's all).
8 PUBLIC TRANSIT. Pt isnt quite there. The streetcar is cute and the bus stops slap STL's in the face, but I have yet to see an actual bus. (And I thought STL was auto-oriented).
Can attest to most of those observations, having gone to school near KC as well (Warrensburg). This thread isn't here to sh*t on KC though, so that's about all I'll say.
Lets be realistic when do the good folks of KC ever congratulate STL? few far in between to almost never in fact they do so much STL bashing that its become pathetic..
Their KCrag forum does more bashing STL than anything I've ever seen.
While this forum we genuinely try to be civil and respectful of KC on the other side they genuinely hate STL with a passion.
I'll go on to say that KC is so full of itself that its laughable.
That city contains the most snooty arrogant people I've ever come across I'm not sure which city is worse Memphis or KC.
I'll pick KC because they're a thorn in STL side.
Yeah good job KC for bashing STL even though your intentions were to thank STL so condescendingly.
Its not that i dislike KC its i dislike how the folks there treat STL.
This is a pretty good overview of the state of downtown KC residential, btw.
Summer/ Fall 2018 is the expected start time. Talk 4 light may start around the same time but we will see. 5 and 6 Light will probably be 2020 at earliest
St.Louis1764 wrote:Lets be realistic when do the good folks of KC ever congratulate STL? few far in between to almost never in fact they do so much STL bashing that its become pathetic..
Their KCrag forum does more bashing STL than anything I've ever seen.
Line to the Riverfront Park: probably a go. It’s currently in the engineering phase. Federal money is being pursued, but the Port Authority has said they will pay for it to be built regardless. I think the plan is to have it run in its own right of way along the river front(except for shared bridge).
Main Street Extension: 2/3 have passed. The taxing election is all that is left. At this point Federal money is needed to pick up half the tab. Center Running is likely. May even have the center lanes reserved for them.
The above 2 projects will bring our system to 7+ Miles.
Line to the Riverfront Park: probably a go. It’s currently in the engineering phase. Federal money is being pursued, but the Port Authority has said they will pay for it to be built regardless. I think the plan is to have it run in its own right of way along the river front(except for shared bridge).
Main Street Extension: 2/3 have passed. The taxing election is all that is left. At this point Federal money is needed to pick up half the tab. Center Running is likely. May even have the center lanes reserved for them.
The above 2 projects will bring our system to 7+ Miles.
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2/3 is the elections needed to get it built have passed.
Linwood Boulevard: One of two most likely Phase 3 projects. Lots of dev. opportunities but I don’t think a lot is going on along it rn. Local support is strong. Length: 3.5 Miles
Country Club Right of Way: Another potential Phase 3 or 4 Project. This would use the unused streetcar row through the densest and richest neighborhoods of KC. Support is mixed in the south plaza area. Strong support as you move farther south along the line. This extension could operate as light rail. Length:3-6+ Miles
St.Louis1764 wrote:Lets be realistic when do the good folks of KC ever congratulate STL? few far in between to almost never in fact they do so much STL bashing that its become pathetic..
Their KCrag forum does more bashing STL than anything I've ever seen.
TBH it seems like you bash KC just as much
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Since KCRag doesn't really allow UrbanSTL posters to join the forum, please stop posting in ours.
St.Louis1764 wrote:Lets be realistic when do the good folks of KC ever congratulate STL? few far in between to almost never in fact they do so much STL bashing that its become pathetic..
Their KCrag forum does more bashing STL than anything I've ever seen.
TBH it seems like you bash KC just as much
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Since KCRag doesn't really allow UrbanSTL posters to join the forum, please stop posting in ours.
There is nothing stopping you from joining. In fact there are people with STL in their usernames that post. I’m not really sure why I can’t provide input on topics relating to KC here while also asking questions and learning about STL?
This is a ST. LOUIS messageboard. If you are going to come on this site and post about Kansas City and how "superior" your 'cowtown' is to St Louis, we should be more than welcome to go on to KCrag and post about how "superior" our 'crime-ridden hellhole' is.
I've been noticing an increasing amount of trolling from Kansas City posters on STL sites. This is getting ridiculous and annoying.
Since KCRag doesn't really allow UrbanSTL posters to join the forum, please stop posting in ours.
There is nothing stopping you from joining. In fact there are people with STL in their usernames that post. I’m not really sure why I can’t provide input on topics relating to KC here while also asking questions and learning about STL?
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I have attempted three times to join KCrag and been denied three times.
Chalupas54 wrote:PERSONAL NOTE TO ALL KCRAG POSTERS
This is a ST. LOUIS messageboard. If you are going to come on this site and post about Kansas City and how "superior" your 'cowtown' is to St Louis, we should be more than welcome to go on to KCrag and post about how "superior" our 'crime-ridden hellhole' is.
I've been noticing an increasing amount of trolling from Kansas City posters on STL sites. This is getting ridiculous and annoying.
No part of what I said was trolling. No part of what I said was to put STL down. I marvel at how STL’s transit system is far more advanced than ours. I cane hear to learn about STL, and saw a place that I could help this community by providing input on KC related issues in a KC Happenings thread about KC happenings with no negative STL opinions
I get that people may have trolled before, but on both sides we are going to have to start being nice to each other if we wanna break the preexisting stereotypes. I admit that KC and KCRAG people aren’t nice to STL and we need to change.
