Word. Can I have a job? 
Do you have any skills besides being able to make snarky comments on public forums?TheWayoftheArch wrote:Word. Can I have a job?
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Snarky! Touche'.
Had that coming.
Oh, and I can make comments like that in public, too.
Had that coming.
Oh, and I can make comments like that in public, too.
Expat wrote:bpwnapres, thanks for the report on BPW. Getting the state streets online is making a huge difference for all of South City.
When I first moved to this area I was immediately warned to "avoid the 'state streets' like the plague". From what I was told, I deduced that only the worst of things happen on these streets and even driving down them is gambling with your life. However, as I continue to wise up on the subject (thanks primarily to this forum and secondarily to my desire to drive around endlessly in the city looking for potential places to live) I have realized that I was always warned of the 'state streets' by people who lived in places like Kirkwood, Webster Groves, Florissant, Chesterfield, etc. I was also told that my moving to close proximity to Delmar in the Central West End was surely a death wish, but alas, I live today to tell of the last 8 months of my living here.
Nowadays, I wouldn't exactly consider the county dwellers to be experts on where to live in the city. Since I no longer solicit advice from these people, I must turn to the experts on this forum. Can someone familiar with the BP and BPW neighborhoods and the surrounding areas suggest areas to consider and possibly areas to avoid with regards to the 'state streets'?
Thanks in advance.
Dustin
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There isn't really a concise answer to that question. Progress has been block by block throughout most of the area. A quick drive through of the area can be the best indication. The one area you should avoid at all costs is the 32XX block of Nebraska. Even the cops talk like its a lost cause. You know its bad when they say that. Is there anyplace in particular you were looking at?
I would also suggest contacting the NSO for the area, Barb Potts. I've talked to her a few times and she can fill you in with more info than you thought you would ever want to know. I believe her # is (314) 613-3083.
I would also suggest contacting the NSO for the area, Barb Potts. I've talked to her a few times and she can fill you in with more info than you thought you would ever want to know. I believe her # is (314) 613-3083.
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Conurbation wrote:There isn't really a concise answer to that question. Progress has been block by block throughout most of the area. A quick drive through of the area can be the best indication. The one area you should avoid at all costs is the 32XX block of Nebraska. Even the cops talk like its a lost cause. You know its bad when they say that. Is there anyplace in particular you were looking at?
I would also suggest contacting the NSO for the area, Barb Potts. I've talked to her a few times and she can fill you in with more info than you thought you would ever want to know. I believe her # is (314) 613-3083.
I want to say I've heard bad things about the 32xx block of Oregon. That must be a bad pocket.
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the warning about state streets does not only come from county folks. most county folk don't know about state streets, unless gramma lives down there. or unless they were coming down to buy something.
i worked on an ambulance in those streets and it could be pretty damn bad on many many many of those blocks. things have changed for the better by a lot in the last 5 years but i would still recommend checking out a neighborhood by driving through in the early evening on a warm spring night.
this coming from one who lives in FPSE aka The Grove formerly known as Ranken.
i worked on an ambulance in those streets and it could be pretty damn bad on many many many of those blocks. things have changed for the better by a lot in the last 5 years but i would still recommend checking out a neighborhood by driving through in the early evening on a warm spring night.
this coming from one who lives in FPSE aka The Grove formerly known as Ranken.
Conurbation wrote:Even the cops talk like its a lost cause. You know its bad when they say that.
Not necessarily. Many, many city police officers will tell you not to live in the city at all. "Even St. Louis Hills is getting bad," is what one officer told me with a straight face.
Unfortunately, most city police only experience the absolute worst aspects of the city. Consequently, many of them hate the place.
I have a good friend who lives on Utah near Lemp. I is a little bit shady, but he hasn't had any problems. I go over there pretty often. He knows most of his neighbors, but has a nuisance vacant house next door that he is in constant contact with the city about. BP is in transition, no doubt about it. You see groups of "hoody" looking people walking around at night (I know that comment is going to be jumped on by somebody, but they will just have to forgive the instincts that so far have kept me out of trouble), but you also see groups of 20 something hippy types riding their bikes in herds late at night too. My impression is that the further north you go from Utah, the (generally) nicer it is. You should take a walk around there on a sunny Sunday morning. I took a wandering walk from Utah and Lemp to Grand and SHenandoah last summer after letting somebody borrow my car (doh!), and I saw things in the neighbor hoods that I have never seen from my car or even bike.
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steve wrote:Conurbation wrote:Even the cops talk like its a lost cause. You know its bad when they say that.
Not necessarily. Many, many city police officers will tell you not to live in the city at all. "Even St. Louis Hills is getting bad," is what one officer told me with a straight face.
Unfortunately, most city police only experience the absolute worst aspects of the city. Consequently, many of them hate the place.
very true, unfortunately. same with my fellow firefighters
"Avoid the state streets". I live on a state street and that makes me furious when people say that to me. Some of the state streets have mansions on Lafayette Park. I live on the border of the Benton Park/Marine Villa neighborhoods, near the Lemp Brewery. We have a great neighborhood. My neighbors and I have block parties, listserves, and each other's phone numbers and we talk regularly. It's true that north of the actual park of Benton Park has more rehabs and higher property values, basically due to its closer proximity to Soulard. But I like that my neighborhood still has some diversity and colorful characters. And is affordable.
Susan wrote:"Avoid the state streets". I live on a state street and that makes me furious when people say that to me. Some of the state streets have mansions on Lafayette Park. I live on the border of the Benton Park/Marine Villa neighborhoods, near the Lemp Brewery. We have a great neighborhood. My neighbors and I have block parties, listserves, and each other's phone numbers and we talk regularly. It's true that north of the actual park of Benton Park has more rehabs and higher property values, basically due to its closer proximity to Soulard. But I like that my neighborhood still has some diversity and colorful characters. And is affordable.
I sometimes think Soulard housing values are going up because of the good things in Benton Park. I love Benton Park neighborhood. My co-worker just bought near Lemp brewery and got a lot of great house for the money.
I hate to correct you, but Mississippi and Missouri in Laf Sq were named for the rivers, not the states. Not that it matters much, but I don't think they're true state streets.
You may be right about Mississippi and Missouri. I live on Missouri, so maybe it's not technically a state street? But I am between Indiana and Illinois Ave. And Missouri from Chouteau down to Gasconade does basically line up, so in my mind it is the same street, even though it wasn't all platted at the same time. Sorry this has gotten horribly off topic.
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63104mom wrote:I hate to correct you, but Mississippi and Missouri in Laf Sq were named for the rivers, not the states. Not that it matters much, but I don't think they're true state streets.
Even if Missouri and Mississippi aren't true state streets, I know I really get tired of the broad brushstrokes that some paint when state streets in general are mentioned.
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^
And I'm pretty sure the folks who live on Utah Place in TGS are pretty pleased with their decision to live on one of the state streets.
And I'm pretty sure the folks who live on Utah Place in TGS are pretty pleased with their decision to live on one of the state streets.
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I really don't think anyone thinks of Lafayette Square, or even McKinley Heights when you say "State Streets".
DeBaliviere wrote:Conurbation wrote:There isn't really a concise answer to that question. Progress has been block by block throughout most of the area. A quick drive through of the area can be the best indication. The one area you should avoid at all costs is the 32XX block of Nebraska. Even the cops talk like its a lost cause. You know its bad when they say that. Is there anyplace in particular you were looking at?
I would also suggest contacting the NSO for the area, Barb Potts. I've talked to her a few times and she can fill you in with more info than you thought you would ever want to know. I believe her # is (314) 613-3083.
I want to say I've heard bad things about the 32xx block of Oregon. That must be a bad pocket.
I live on the 32xx of Oregon -- I don't think it's nearly as bad as the 32xx of Nebraska, which is right behind us across the alley!
Then again, our rickety old garage did get broken into again this weekend.... and a few weeks ago, we had police 'choppers hoving over, shining spotlights right into our backyard.
And Barb Potts (not to mention, Craig Schmid
) are GREAT!DeBaliviere wrote:^
And I'm pretty sure the folks who live on Utah Place in TGS are pretty pleased with their decision to live on one of the state streets.
Wyoming, Utah, Cherokee, Potomac, Miami, Winnebago, Chippewa etc. -- those are east-west streets named for Native American tribes, NOT states.
The state streets run north-south.
Pretty bad right now is the 32xx of Pennsylvania -- but if we can get some serious interest in rehabbing those four-families, maybe we'll get somewhere!
But maybe we should stay away from comments about specific blocks -- unless you live there, it's pretty hard to judge.
More to the point: when is anything going to happen w/ the Fleur-de-Lys? I attended the Vogt's update back in the summer, but since then, all I've seen is a new residential garage rising on a separate property across the alley, on Texas.
So is this project on hold pending financing?
Meanwhile, my friend Josh Restivo has completed his renovation of the building at NE corner (now occupied by Luvy Duvy Cafe).
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Add to the confusion that many states are named after Native American tribes. However, Utah, which is a state, used to actually be named Ute, the tribe. Perhaps, it was changed, because it does seem difficult to pronounce "Ute."
Vinny Gambini: It is possible that the two yutes...
Judge Chamberlain Haller: ...Ah, the two what? Uh... uh, what was that word?
Vinny Gambini: Uh... what word?
Judge Chamberlain Haller: Two what?
Vinny Gambini: What?
Judge Chamberlain Haller: Uh... did you say 'yutes'?
Vinny Gambini: Yeah, two yutes.
Judge Chamberlain Haller: What is a yute?
[beat]
Vinny Gambini: Oh, excuse me, your honor...
[exaggerated]
Vinny Gambini: Two YOUTHS.
I can only think of a few states named after Indian tribes: Massachusetts, Utah (Ute, close enough, right?), and Missouri.
Many states, though, have names taken from Indian words -- Alaska, Arizona, Connecticut, Ilinois, Iowa, Kansas . . .
Many states, though, have names taken from Indian words -- Alaska, Arizona, Connecticut, Ilinois, Iowa, Kansas . . .
I would write this project off as dead. That way if it does happen you'll be pleasantly surprised.Bastiat wrote:What is the hold up with this project?
Sigh...
Just look at that rendering on the first page of this thread. This would have been an awsome project. Frankly, I've always had my doubts about this one. Millenium does great rehab work, but I just don't think they've got the skills/resources to pull-off a job like this.
Just look at that rendering on the first page of this thread. This would have been an awsome project. Frankly, I've always had my doubts about this one. Millenium does great rehab work, but I just don't think they've got the skills/resources to pull-off a job like this.
It's my understanding that Millenium, the developer, is a pretty small company that is basically a restoration company trying to get into more development. Which is why they are trying to get Fleur-De-Lis, Val Place, and DeTonty all off the ground.
I wouldn't categorize this as dead, just one of those projects that is going to take a while to get started because of the situation Millenium is in.
I wouldn't categorize this as dead, just one of those projects that is going to take a while to get started because of the situation Millenium is in.
OK, so I was curious about the status of the Fleur-de-Lys, and when I went to Millennium's website:
http://www.mrdcorp.com
I saw a link to Claire Vogt's (Tim Vogt's mom) RAP/MLS records.
http://maris.rapmls.com/scripts/mgrqisp ... =&KeyRid=1
Apparently, they are marketing the five vacant lots together for $375k.
From the remarks on MLS 782706 (all are identical otherwise):
"This lot must be sold as a group with 4 other contiguous lots, MLS#'s 782705, 782710, 782713, and 782716 forming an L shaped building site on the west corner of Jefferson and Arsenal, across from Benton Park. The total price for all 5 lots is $375,000 and includes: building plans and elevation drawings, Phase 1 Environmental studies, floor plan, pro-forma statement, soil engineering report and survey. Electric, gas and telephone on site. Water main in the street approx 20ft from property line, sewer main in the alley approx 10ft from property line. An additional lot as 2614 Arsenal is also available through LRA."
This just does not seem like a good sign for the project.
Meanwhile, the corner of California and Wyoming is looking better! One corner building is being rehabbed by Millennium, the other by a company I cannot recall (Blue Brick, maybe?). It's not Beachfront, that I know.
And whoever did the mid-block house on Wyoming between Cal. and Oregon did a nice job, too. I think that was Blue Brick.
http://www.mrdcorp.com
I saw a link to Claire Vogt's (Tim Vogt's mom) RAP/MLS records.
http://maris.rapmls.com/scripts/mgrqisp ... =&KeyRid=1
Apparently, they are marketing the five vacant lots together for $375k.
From the remarks on MLS 782706 (all are identical otherwise):
"This lot must be sold as a group with 4 other contiguous lots, MLS#'s 782705, 782710, 782713, and 782716 forming an L shaped building site on the west corner of Jefferson and Arsenal, across from Benton Park. The total price for all 5 lots is $375,000 and includes: building plans and elevation drawings, Phase 1 Environmental studies, floor plan, pro-forma statement, soil engineering report and survey. Electric, gas and telephone on site. Water main in the street approx 20ft from property line, sewer main in the alley approx 10ft from property line. An additional lot as 2614 Arsenal is also available through LRA."
This just does not seem like a good sign for the project.
Meanwhile, the corner of California and Wyoming is looking better! One corner building is being rehabbed by Millennium, the other by a company I cannot recall (Blue Brick, maybe?). It's not Beachfront, that I know.
And whoever did the mid-block house on Wyoming between Cal. and Oregon did a nice job, too. I think that was Blue Brick.