Hibernia Apts - 6300 Clayton Avenue

dweebe · PostApr 22, 2013#762013-04-22T15:28+00:00

arch city wrote:I think it is a double-edged sword.

While developers should be respectful of the communities where they are planning to build, on the flip side, the neighborhood should be willing to make some exceptions and concessions too (or) the neighborhood could continue to have a bigger eyesore in the vacant lumber yard for years to come.

Perhaps some other developer may come in, but I think the NIMBYS have made it harder for this parcel of land to be redeveloped.

In the meantime, their property values continue to either stagnate or drop because of the idle eyesore property and empty storefronts nearby.

Over the years, neighborhood NIMBYS in St. Louis City have killed some really good and decent residential proposals. Sad.

Yes, sad.

Especially given what has happened in the neighborhood and given what it is. It's not like they're dropping this project in the CWE or Compton Heights. This is Dogtown we're talking about here.

PostApr 22, 2013#772013-04-22T15:29+00:00

Alex Ihnen wrote:The developers are relatively new and have no track record of courting low income tenants.

If true, someone on the NIMBY side is spreading lies.

ward24 · PostApr 22, 2013#782013-04-22T16:39+00:00

The reason this is a no-go is financing on the developer side. There are all kinds of other rumors and non-truths out there, but its not nearly as complicated as it sounds, its just an issue of inadequate equity.

Scott Ogilvie
24th Ward Alderman.

Alex Ihnen · PostApr 22, 2013#792013-04-22T16:56+00:00

^ But inadequate equity to produce a project that will satisfy residents, not inadequate to complete the project as proposed...or perhaps I'm wrong.

ward24 · PostApr 22, 2013#802013-04-22T17:26+00:00

I don't know. Its not a fixed number, its a conversation between them and a bank, which would also include the sale price of the property, which is a separate conversation with current owner. The numbers don't work for one of those three parties.

DogtownBnR · PostApr 22, 2013#812013-04-22T21:13+00:00

Is this not the same group that renovated the Cheshire Inn? If so, they have a track record and from what I've heard, they did a great job on that project. Seems like the money did not add up versus the developer being under some sort of financial stress. Pretty simple, if the project does not produce the desired profit, it does not happen.

Regarding the developer being rude, I heard the exact opposite. I heard from reliable, first hand witnesses at the meeting, that some residents were attacking and screaming at the developers. The person I know, that was there, actually felt sorry for them. She felt a vibe from them when they started, like they thought they'd get a mostly positive reception. When it went the exact opposite, they seemed a bit shell-shocked. I think I would have been too. Your offering to develop a site that that is an eyesore and has been for a long time. They want to put a nice complex there. Then you get attacked.
That is how I heard it all went down. I agree, that a developer should work with the locals, but let's face it, a lot of people in the immediate area, did not want this to happen, no matter what the truth is. There are a lot of things being spread around and the term 'section 8' seems to come up most.

Alex Ihnen · PostApr 22, 2013#822013-04-22T21:45+00:00

^ from the same family, but not the same people who did the Cheshire

dweebe · PostApr 22, 2013#832013-04-22T22:12+00:00

DogtownBnR wrote:Is this not the same group that renovated the Cheshire Inn? If so, they have a track record and from what I've heard, they did a great job on that project. Seems like the money did not add up versus the developer being under some sort of financial stress. Pretty simple, if the project does not produce the desired profit, it does not happen.

Regarding the developer being rude, I heard the exact opposite. I heard from reliable, first hand witnesses at he meeting, that some residents were attacking and screaming at the developers. The person I know, that was there, actually felt sorry for them. She felt a vibe from them when they started, like they thought they'd get a mostly positive reception. When it went the exact opposite, they seemed a bit shell-shocked. I think I would have been too. Your offering to develop a site that that has been an eyesore and has been for a long time. They want to put a nice complex there. Then you get attacked.
That is how I heard it all went down. I agree, that a developer should work with the locals, but let's face it, a lot of people in the immediate area, did not want this to happen, no matter what the truth is. There are a lot of things being spread around and the term 'section 8' seems to comes up most.

So what do the NIMBY's want? Are they happy with a big empty parcel?

Alex Ihnen · PostApr 22, 2013#842013-04-22T22:21+00:00

They want a three-story all brick building with 2+ parking spaces per unit.

ward24 · PostApr 23, 2013#852013-04-23T13:53+00:00

Lodging Hospitality Management (LHM) purchased and renovated the Cheshire. They have many quality hotel projects and recently bought Union Station. Zero connection to this building. These were family members of the prior owners, not LHM.

JuanHamez · PostDec 18, 2013#862013-12-18T17:13+00:00

Is anything ever going to happen with this plot or is it dead forever now? I'm afraid that other developers are now strongly discouraged from considering this site now that they've been mauled by the nimbys. With other prime sites available all over the city for developers to work on, I wonder how long that site will sit empty now...

dweebe · PostDec 18, 2013#872013-12-18T17:16+00:00

JuanHamez wrote:Is anything ever going to happen with this plot or is it dead forever now? I'm afraid that other developers are now strongly discouraged from considering this site now that they've been mauled by the nimbys. With other prime sites available all over the city for developers to work on, I wonder how long that site will sit empty now...

I get sad every time I drive past this eyesore of a lot. It really makes the neighborhood look like crap.

DogtownBnR · PostDec 23, 2013#882013-12-23T16:10+00:00

I bet some underwhelming proposal comes next. It will likely underutilize the land and be disappointing to everyone in the neighborhood that has a broader vision for Dogtown. (Dogtown's ballpark village)

The site is prime and ready for dirt to start moving. The site has been cleared. It is a matter of time, IMO, before something happens on this site. Its just too bad a 'real' project was nixed.

roger wyoming II · PostDec 23, 2013#892013-12-23T16:46+00:00

Maybe townhomes.

dweebe · PostDec 23, 2013#902013-12-23T17:29+00:00

roger wyoming II wrote:Maybe townhomes.

Probably some St. Charles/McBride and Sons "quality" gems kind of like the ones at Clayton and Bertold. With plenty of parking.

JuanHamez · PostDec 23, 2013#912013-12-23T18:10+00:00

Perhaps they should turn it into a parking deck for the new Zoo facilities?

In all seriousness though, I hope they get a good project at this site. Its a perfect location for dense mixed use development and there are several walkable stores and restaurants nearby. I hope another developer will come and make it successful.

dweebe · PostJan 26, 2014#922014-01-26T21:10+00:00

Hope the NIMBYs and BANANAs are happy: Honda of Frontenac is now using the empty lot as a storage spot for their new cars.

I want to say this is new: maybe the last week or two. I'll post pictures later.

DogtownBnR · PostJan 27, 2014#932014-01-27T16:53+00:00

^ Unreal! I saw it... It looks awful, like a big car dealership. All we'd need is a bunch of banners, gorilla 'sale' balloons and some shady guys in suits. Great tradeoff I'm sure. Large parking lot, instead of nice apartment complex. Instead of bringing residents, life and money to the area, this brings cars. Let's hope it is temporary, until they find a new project for that spot.

Great job! Hope you are happy NIMBYS!

Knowitall · PostJan 30, 2014#942014-01-30T02:21+00:00

One of my friends worked on this project. he said the 2 developer brothers in their mid 20s were total dbags to work with and didn't give a rats behind about the neighborhood, he said they way overpaid for the site and then tried to cram as many apartments as possible to make it work financially which made the quality of the exterior suffer. He said they changed their mind so many times of # of units and design.

I was at the board adjustment meeting when they were getting a variance because of parking and I was shocked the board gave them a thumbs up , tho I have a feeling that had something to do with the fact that the company that designed it was owned by Joe Klitzing, long time member of the board of adjustment

dweebe · PostJan 30, 2014#952014-01-30T18:49+00:00

Knowitall wrote:One of my friends worked on this project. he said the 2 developer brothers in their mid 20s were total dbags to work with and didn't give a rats behind about the neighborhood,

Just asking: could there be a connection between the 2 not-so-wise developer kids and Honda of Frontenac? Family or something? I'm grasping at straws as to why they'd store cars in this location that's around 7 or 8 miles from the dealership.

Knowitall · PostJan 30, 2014#962014-01-30T19:17+00:00

Not sure. Their names are David and Brett Apted, kids of the people that owned the Cheshire lodge before it was sold to LHM in 2010

JuanHamez · PostJun 07, 2014#972014-06-07T15:23+00:00

I just drove by the site the other day and the cars that were parked there have been cleared out and there is now a general contractor trailer on site. Is there something happening here that we haven't heard about yet?

roger wyoming II · PostJun 07, 2014#982014-06-07T16:23+00:00

^ lets hope something good is going on! btw, the alderman tweeted something a week or two ago about some foundations going in somewhere in Dogtown... iirc it was maybe a 4 or 5 townhome project or something. Anyone know more?

ward24 · PostJun 08, 2014#992014-06-08T18:53+00:00

Nope, nothing happening. Cars are gone because they never had an occupancy permit for auto storage and that's not a permitted use in this zoning category. The contractor trucks are Katsinas Contracting, who is one of two ownership partners there. Their business office is across the street. Its back to square one basically - its essentially for sale, the price is too high, one acre, Zoned F. Sadly it may stay as is for a while because of the price, but one never knows. Its certainly potentially a great opportunity and location.

Scott Ogilvie
24th Ward Alderman

Presbyterian · PostJun 08, 2014#1002014-06-08T23:37+00:00

^Thanks, Scott.

Hibernia Apts - 6300 Clayton Avenue

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