Sure, so one big garage to serve the theaters, and one big garage for the residential that's coming on line. Then, down the road, a third garage could be built if it becomes necessary. But like Juan suggested, in a district this compact it shouldn't be difficult to share parking resources.Presbyterian wrote:From the perspective of the businesses and organizations in the district, garages have to be built before anyone builds on a surface lot. And a developer building hundreds of apartment units isn't going to risk his investment because potential tenants fear competing with Fox and symphony guests for parking. Market rate residential often does require reserved, secured parking in order to succeed. These garages pave the way for new development.
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What worries me a bit about the proposed garages is that they'll be hidden from view by retail or residential projects in later phases. I worry that later phases may never happen. I understand that demand is weak in Grand Center and it doesn't make sense to build a brand new large apartment building or additional retail space, but it still gives makes me nervous that we'll be looking at ugly parking garages for the next 20 years (and not even attractive parking garages, because why spend money on aesthetics if you plan to cover them up some day?). From the P-D article above:
Smith, whose Lawrence Group is designing and developing the [Missouri Theatre] projects, said a second phase calls for a new apartment building that would wrap around the garage. That building, with about 125 apartments, would be on the parking lot at Washington Boulevard and Theresa Avenue, he said.
The privately financed [Fox] garage would have about 600 spaces and be set back from the street to provide room for a small retail or residential building later, Baker added.
Also under consideration is a garage on a Fox parking lot west of Grand. Baker said the second garage might be built in the middle of a block, providing space on either side for additional residential or commercial development. A second Fox garage would follow the first by at least two years, he added.
^ 20 years? I don't think it will take that long to build out Grand Center. In fact, I believe in 20 years large vacant parcels in the central corridor will be rare to find, especially if the streetcar is built. I say 5 years max, maybe even sooner if they have some ideas on the drawing board.
^ I'm going to agree with Goat on this one. There is no reason why the central corridor can't be completely filled with midrise and highrise construction within a few decades. With all the things happening, we're generating the momentum for significant economic and population growth 5-10 years from now.
In the grand scheme of things, St. Louis is still well situated for success. We can't use our closeness to Chicago to assign blame for any failings. It should instead be seen as an asset. There are 10 million people up there to bring down for tourism, or bring here for education, or to collaborate for business. This is the relationship that Boston and NYC have with each other and its worked out great for both cities. Neither is "isolation" an excuse. Atlanta, Denver, Minneapolis are far more isolated than we are and they do fine. We're situated at the center of an incredibly productive continental landmass with nearly unlimited water resources. We have an economic sphere of influence that would be the envy of most countries. Once we bring up our regional self esteem and fix our distorted perception in the rest of the country, we'll do fine. Retention, Development, Education, and Advertising should be our motto
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In the grand scheme of things, St. Louis is still well situated for success. We can't use our closeness to Chicago to assign blame for any failings. It should instead be seen as an asset. There are 10 million people up there to bring down for tourism, or bring here for education, or to collaborate for business. This is the relationship that Boston and NYC have with each other and its worked out great for both cities. Neither is "isolation" an excuse. Atlanta, Denver, Minneapolis are far more isolated than we are and they do fine. We're situated at the center of an incredibly productive continental landmass with nearly unlimited water resources. We have an economic sphere of influence that would be the envy of most countries. Once we bring up our regional self esteem and fix our distorted perception in the rest of the country, we'll do fine. Retention, Development, Education, and Advertising should be our motto
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Wasn't there a proposal for a 20+ story hotel tower around 2007 or so? And then the idea of using the Missouri Theater building as a hotel came around. Now it seems they're both scrapped, but would it be farfetched to think maybe the tower may come back online as a result of the Missouri Theater becoming apartments, plus the various other developments happening here? The streetcar in particular may make some developers really start looking at putting that tower there!
I just learned that Grand Center has gotten rid of their staff in charge of all of the events and space booking. Between this and the sale of the Grandel, I gotta wonder what in the world is going on over there. They seem to be scaling back the entertainment portion of the entertainment district. Real bummed.
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^Maybe they just outsourced Event Management to concentrate on their core business?
Can you find out who's doing their Event Management work now?
Can you find out who's doing their Event Management work now?
In some respects makes sense to me in the fact that you already got entities and organizations with staff to book events such as Fox Theater, etc. From that perspective, I wouldn't be surprised if their hasn't been quiet pressure for Grand Central to do what it did. Not to mention what Gone Corporate noted, their might be more to the story and certainly plenty of experience event coordinators who can fill the gap.
I also would take the optimistic view, Grand Central has succeeded in getting the large existing spaced developed and/or under development. That has been a big win for the city. The huge task ahead and what I would consider a priority first and foremost for Grand Central is to get infill development to happen. That will be a heavy lift that will also require structured parking to happen in a way that is not only feasible but in a desireable form considering that land prices/values/economics/demand is far from being able to support underground parking happening on purely market basis.
I also would take the optimistic view, Grand Central has succeeded in getting the large existing spaced developed and/or under development. That has been a big win for the city. The huge task ahead and what I would consider a priority first and foremost for Grand Central is to get infill development to happen. That will be a heavy lift that will also require structured parking to happen in a way that is not only feasible but in a desireable form considering that land prices/values/economics/demand is far from being able to support underground parking happening on purely market basis.
"The Henry L. Wolfner Memorial Library for the Blind in St. Louis, Missouri is locally significant under Criterion A for EDUCATION, SOCIAL HISTORY and ENTERTAINMENT & RECREATION. Originally built as a telephone exchange in 1899 and in 1904 for the Bell Telephone Company (later Southwestern Bell) by the architectural firms of Shepley, Rutan & Coolidge and successors Mauran, Russell & Garden, the building became the first home of the Henry L. Wolfner Memorial Library for the Blind. When the library opened in 1938, it was the first of its kind in the United States; there was no other library for the blind situated in its own building with the facilities organized purposely for the convenience of its patrons. The annual report of the Library of Congress (LC) for 1940 showed that Wolfner distributed more Braille and talking books than any other library in the United'States (after LC) and that it housed the second largest collection of materials for the blind (also after LC)."
https://dnr.mo.gov/shpo/nps-nr/05000631.pdf
Looks like work on the Media Commons is underway (between KETC and KWMU).
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Good to hear it. I noticed some activity there a month ago and hoped this was the case.
Grand Center needs one of these floating light installations. Anywhere in St. Louis needs one of these. Saw it on GOOD.
http://www.creativevisualart.com/2014/0 ... paign=wall
http://www.creativevisualart.com/2014/0 ... paign=wall
So with the BB King's announcement, I wouldn't be surprised at all to hear shortly Steve Smith announce the garage plan.
And what would be killer is if he announces along with it the Phase II new residential... I'm dying to see what design plans may look like . Will this at long last be the signature new building we've been looking for? Anyway, having 230+ units on that block will be awesome. Hopefully there are developers looking at other residential towers and modern Art House projects.
And what would be killer is if he announces along with it the Phase II new residential... I'm dying to see what design plans may look like . Will this at long last be the signature new building we've been looking for? Anyway, having 230+ units on that block will be awesome. Hopefully there are developers looking at other residential towers and modern Art House projects.
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The Missouri Theater is the last large vacant building. Once it is occupied, we'll need new construction to meet demand, but how many people want to live in Grand Center? Is it that hot of a neighborhood? I believe that if it isn't yet, then the streetcar will make it so. In that case, maybe someone should start construction on something new soon so it's finished at the same time as the streetcar.
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^ well, we'll soon find out how hot the demand is. Metropolitan quickly filled up and we'll soon see how the Missouri Theater does. It looks like their plan is moving forward nicely and I assume Smith will announce Phase II when he feels confident. My gut says we'll see a number of residential apartment projects announced over the course of the next few years.
You could argue that the city is the go to place for multi-unit residential, first with rehabs/conversions and now infills. I just don't see much being proposed or discussed for the rest of the region. A big part in my mind is nimbyism is making much more difficult to overcome everywhere else. While city has some of the nimbyism it seems less likely to do with the mult-unit resident aspect itself and more to do with parking
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I would love to see iconic new high rises built in Grand Center, but I would rather see short, wide/long buildings taking up the lots. What was the tower proposed back in around 2006?
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Wow, I would love to see that get built! Would that be replacing the fountain or the sculpture park if it were built? Perhaps the garages AND this could all be constructed shortly after the Missouri Theater is done and the streetcar is under construction.
I feel like once Ikea is up and if Pace's Midtown Station is designed well, the vacant land around Grand Center should be pretty hot for real urban residential.Gateway City wrote:The Missouri Theater is the last large vacant building. Once it is occupied, we'll need new construction to meet demand, but how many people want to live in Grand Center? Is it that hot of a neighborhood? I believe that if it isn't yet, then the streetcar will make it so. In that case, maybe someone should start construction on something new soon so it's finished at the same time as the streetcar.
Grand Center is slowly becoming a center for arts. KDHX has a new building in the area and St. Lou Fringe is starting to make a name for its self as well. I believe they either share a building or are situated pretty close to one another.
Just stumbled on this photoset of the Sun in progress, showing the restored plasterwork. All I can say is WOW!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/45726367@N ... 2351628489
http://www.flickr.com/photos/45726367@N ... 2351628489
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I was walking around Grand Center the other day for the first time in awhile. It's dead as sh-t! New theatres, radio and TV stations are great, but they're not doing much to activate the street on normal days. It needs to be more than an entertainment destination on weekends. It needs retail that can compete with what Midtown Station is going to have. I know it won't have anything like IKEA, but what if a new building in Grand Center had like a City Target (supposing Midtown Station doesn't get one)? There needs to be a reason to people to go there besides seeing shows and, occasionally, eating.
As long as the area sits in a sea of parking, it will remain dead. The 50+ years of doing what's been done hasn't worked and won't. This is the time for the powers that be to figure out that trying to make the city the suburbs has been killing it.
St. Louis has good bones yet, despite all the setbacks and if this was built upon and made a special place with beautiful architecture, transit and walkable neighborhoods with local flare, it would be a special place and not another destination with overly wide roads and parking spaces out the wazoo to cater to people driving in and driving out.
To be a viable area, housing needs to be built. This is the perfect location for dense, mixed-use apartment buildings with good, solid modern design to cater to students from SLU as well as workers at the nearby Cortex development and the re-invigorated area around Midtown Alley.
The proposed streetcar along Linell as well as the BRT on Grand would help to usher people back and forth, but could also provide easy and quick access for new residents of the area to get to downtown and the CWE easily.
Housing and transport are essential at this point.
St. Louis has good bones yet, despite all the setbacks and if this was built upon and made a special place with beautiful architecture, transit and walkable neighborhoods with local flare, it would be a special place and not another destination with overly wide roads and parking spaces out the wazoo to cater to people driving in and driving out.
To be a viable area, housing needs to be built. This is the perfect location for dense, mixed-use apartment buildings with good, solid modern design to cater to students from SLU as well as workers at the nearby Cortex development and the re-invigorated area around Midtown Alley.
The proposed streetcar along Linell as well as the BRT on Grand would help to usher people back and forth, but could also provide easy and quick access for new residents of the area to get to downtown and the CWE easily.
Housing and transport are essential at this point.