IMO, the SLU Blue is getting out of hand. It's basically advertising, and makes it feel like the whole Midtown area is some kind of SLU fiefdom. If they want their campus to look like that, then that's their business; but now they're forcing it on the rest of us, whether we like it our not. I just feel there should be some kind of community input.
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Well I bet you if the people are asked to split the cost the lights would never be fixed or bulbs changed, if they are going to pay for the fixture and maintenance then more power to them to mark there territory. Helps distinguish there brand. Helps give the area an ownership. I don't think anyone else is able to do such a thing in the area and the improvements have been good.
Therein lies the point of disagreement or at least debate.inTheGrove wrote:and the improvements have been good.
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yeah, when you get rid of all the buildings it's easy to avoid that "run-down" look. and that "city" look.inTheGrove wrote:Well at least not as run down and ghetto as it was.
they may have paid for them, but neon blue lights don't really illuminate the street/sidewalk like halogen/LED lights do. they don't perform the same function–not really useful for pedestrians.pat wrote: I'm sure SLU paid for those lights. If SLU is going to pay for new lights and wants to add some blue, I'm sure the Street Lighting department is all for it. No money taken out of their budget, and they get new lighting which they won't have to maintain for years. I think its kind of hard to complain when SLU is paying for something that is typically a city cost.
^That's not what I meant.
You're right. The blue is only aesthetic. The new LEDs illuminate the street. I'm guessing that SLU wanted to put their blue neon on the street poles. The Street department probably told them that SLU could put up the blue if they paid for and replaced all the street lighting with LED. SLU probably paid for the blue lights and the LED street lights. I'm sure SLU or a different city department maintains the blue lights. The city maintains the street light. By getting SLU to pay for the new LED street lights, the Street Department has probably put off having to touch those street lights for another 5 to 10 years. That's a no brainer for the Street Department to say yes to. Saves them time and money, both of which are hard for them to get.
You're right. The blue is only aesthetic. The new LEDs illuminate the street. I'm guessing that SLU wanted to put their blue neon on the street poles. The Street department probably told them that SLU could put up the blue if they paid for and replaced all the street lighting with LED. SLU probably paid for the blue lights and the LED street lights. I'm sure SLU or a different city department maintains the blue lights. The city maintains the street light. By getting SLU to pay for the new LED street lights, the Street Department has probably put off having to touch those street lights for another 5 to 10 years. That's a no brainer for the Street Department to say yes to. Saves them time and money, both of which are hard for them to get.
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^ if that's the case (SLU paying for and maintaining the LED's) then, yeah, it's a reasonable arrangement for the city. i still think it's tacky, though (not the lights, per se, but the too-much-blue).
I have to agree that the blue neon on the street lights is now too much. I really liked the blue neon on top of the buildings...it made the place look lively and exciting at night.
But the neon on the street light poles just looks tacky. But whatever. If the city got free LED streetlights out of it, I'm all for it. I bet within a year, the blue neon will be taken down, because it will generate too many complaints.
But the neon on the street light poles just looks tacky. But whatever. If the city got free LED streetlights out of it, I'm all for it. I bet within a year, the blue neon will be taken down, because it will generate too many complaints.
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I was in the area this morning with some extra time so I snapped this picture for those who aren't in the area frequently. The neon on the light standards extends on Olive from Compton to Grand and on Lindell from Olive to Grand. It is pretty cool. Sorry the picture isn't any better. It is actually much bluer than appears in the photo.
Edit: On Saturday I was back in the area and noticed these lights had been added to Lindell from Grand to Vandeventer and also on Laclede.
Edit: On Saturday I was back in the area and noticed these lights had been added to Lindell from Grand to Vandeventer and also on Laclede.
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Looks like the Black Rep has found a new home, at least temporarily.
http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2013/11/18/ ... enefactor/
This is actually a good fit in my opinion. It's still close enough to the rest of the Grand Center to be a part of the evolving performing arts district. These type of small/med theater groups have typically been welcome additions to local college campuses, (UMSL and Webster to name a few) and now Harris-Stowe can put a feather in it's hat by attracting an established theater company with a rich history such as it is. Plus, the exposure future performing arts students can gain by having them there is invaluable. Hope they can work out a long term deal.
http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2013/11/18/ ... enefactor/
This is actually a good fit in my opinion. It's still close enough to the rest of the Grand Center to be a part of the evolving performing arts district. These type of small/med theater groups have typically been welcome additions to local college campuses, (UMSL and Webster to name a few) and now Harris-Stowe can put a feather in it's hat by attracting an established theater company with a rich history such as it is. Plus, the exposure future performing arts students can gain by having them there is invaluable. Hope they can work out a long term deal.
^The dream scenario would be to have Harris-Stowe & The Black Rep (with the help of some seriously generous donors) restore the Castle Ballroom into a performing arts center/space for the two entities. Classrooms and studios on the ground floor, performing arts/Black Rep in the restored ballroom upstairs. It's all of one block from campus. So the location makes perfect sense.
Harris-Stowe doesn't currently have a performing arts program, but that might change with the presence of the Black Rep on campus. Also, they could always use the new classroom space for any of their current programs: Business Administration, Criminal Justice, Hospitality, Mathematics, etc...
Harris-Stowe doesn't currently have a performing arts program, but that might change with the presence of the Black Rep on campus. Also, they could always use the new classroom space for any of their current programs: Business Administration, Criminal Justice, Hospitality, Mathematics, etc...
From STL Biz Journal, rehab of Missouri Theater and perhaps two new garages with retail/commercial coming to Grand Center.
http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/morn ... eater.html
http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/morn ... eater.html
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wabash wrote:^The dream scenario would be to have Harris-Stowe & The Black Rep (with the help of some seriously generous donors) restore the Castle Ballroom into a performing arts center/space for the two entities. Classrooms and studios on the ground floor, performing arts/Black Rep in the restored ballroom upstairs. It's all of one block from campus. So the location makes perfect sense.
Harris-Stowe doesn't currently have a performing arts program, but that might change with the presence of the Black Rep on campus. Also, they could always use the new classroom space for any of their current programs: Business Administration, Criminal Justice, Hospitality, Mathematics, etc...
They better act quick. The Castle Ballroom just took a beating in the last storm and partially collapsed.
Citified wrote:From STL Biz Journal, rehab of Missouri Theater and perhaps two new garages with retail/commercial coming to Grand Center.
http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/morn ... eater.html
Good deal; sounds like it's really gonna happen this time. The Fox garage sounds promising; retail on the first floor. Let's hold themto it.
Ironically solving the perceived parking "problem" with a couple of garages could just be the panacea for development of the remaining vacant lots, this in tandem with a changing demographic that does not "fear" garaged parking as much as my parents generation, could make open lots a burden with no revenue, leaving development or sale the only option to make cash.(can not tell you how many times I have heard from people from the boomer generation that they hate parking in garages because of all the bad things that happen in them)
If done correctly this is a game changer for the district, incorrectly is another 15 years of "meh"
If done correctly this is a game changer for the district, incorrectly is another 15 years of "meh"
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Vince Schoemehl and Grand Center, Inc. have been seeking twin garages for many, many years to handle event traffic. Looks like this is finally coming to fruition WITH ground-level retail. All this and a rehab of the MO Theater Building. Good times.
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"Apartments in the historic Missouri Theatre building could set off a wave of new residences, restaurants and as many as three parking garages in Grand Center."
“With all the development in the area, parking is becoming a bit of a problem,” he said.
Jesus H. Christ, c'mon! This is a flat-out lie to generate a perceived need for parking garages. There's no way that parking is currently a problem in Grand Center. I totally understand building one or two garages to free up the surface lots for projects, but THREE garages? Why not WAIT and see how many garages are needed? The only thing worse than a surface lot is being stuck with a mostly-empty garage. Ugh… they're garage CRAZY up in here.
on the upside, a new apartment buildings sounds pretty sweet.
“With all the development in the area, parking is becoming a bit of a problem,” he said.
Jesus H. Christ, c'mon! This is a flat-out lie to generate a perceived need for parking garages. There's no way that parking is currently a problem in Grand Center. I totally understand building one or two garages to free up the surface lots for projects, but THREE garages? Why not WAIT and see how many garages are needed? The only thing worse than a surface lot is being stuck with a mostly-empty garage. Ugh… they're garage CRAZY up in here.
on the upside, a new apartment buildings sounds pretty sweet.
Not enough parking is not the problem. Parking has never been the problem. There must be thousands of parking spaces within a 10 min walk of there. I do agree that parking deck may eventually be necessary but not every new development needs its own.urban_dilettante wrote:"
“With all the development in the area, parking is becoming a bit of a problem,” he said.
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From the perspective of the businesses and organizations in the district, garages have to be built before anyone builds on a surface lot. And a developer building hundreds of apartment units isn't going to risk his investment because potential tenants fear competing with Fox and symphony guests for parking. Market rate residential often does require reserved, secured parking in order to succeed. These garages pave the way for new development.
My thoughts exactly. There are very few regions in the country that a developer can successfully build a car free apartment complex, even for low income residents, and actually rent or sell units. The reality is most American metros are dominated by cars, even in their urban cores. Even in cities with robust transit like Chicago and DC, it is not uncommon to see underground parking garages or garages wrapped in apartments.Presbyterian wrote:From the perspective of the businesses and organizations in the district, garages have to be built before anyone builds on a surface lot. And a developer building hundreds of apartment units isn't going to risk his investment because potential tenants fear competing with Fox and symphony guests for parking. Market rate residential often does require reserved, secured parking in order to succeed. These garages pave the way for new development.
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Thousands of spots within a 10 minute walk does not a safe walk make. I can walk to some of the roughest neighborhoods in STL within ten minutes of Grand Center, and if I'm a well-to-do apartment-dweller or an entertainment district visitor, I most certainly don't want to walk more than a few minutes at midnight after a few drinks after a show at one of the venues. I also don't want to walk ten minutes to my apartment after a day at work and a dinner in the district late at night. Don't discount the safety issue, it's a real factor. (And I am not some city-fearing suburbanite, I just would prefer to minimize my risks.)
Regarding the safety issue, I do admit that it is a very legitimate concern. Perhaps the answer is to build more streetlights and have more neighborhood patrols like what has worked in the Central West End. Also, I like that SLU has placed its blue colors all over the place. There have been studies that blue lighting reduces crime so they may be doing a subtle psychological manipulation too. If building parking decks will activate the other parking lots around grand center for development, that would be a positive thing too.
I understand that some development projects are just not viable without available parking but I think this just underlines that we need to have more creative licensing models for parking in urban areas. Rather than have two lots for two apartment buildings that often sit nowhere near full capacity, why not just have one lot that is shared by the immediately adjacent businesses and residential but is smaller and works for 90% of the time and then have rights to other preexisting lots in the area for the rare overflow episodes? With today's technology, when you go to a business, you should just be able to request a parking spot on your cell phone and the system will tell you where spots are currently available rather than searching around all day. These things would allow for greater density, and most importantly save money for everybody and time. When automated cars get accepted, they will automatically take you to the closest available spot by this search method if you own the car, or if you're using automated cars as a taxi service, it will just drop you off in front of the business. We're living in the modern world now. No need for old 20th century development paradigms anymore.
I would just be very careful about saying we need more parking in an area that already clearly has a surplus. I feel like the majority of the time, parking decks in most parts of the City sit empty and it does nothing to impart a greater feeling of safety in the area. Wrap around apartments like 9 North are wonderful though and if we could have more developments like that, I would be all for it.
I understand that some development projects are just not viable without available parking but I think this just underlines that we need to have more creative licensing models for parking in urban areas. Rather than have two lots for two apartment buildings that often sit nowhere near full capacity, why not just have one lot that is shared by the immediately adjacent businesses and residential but is smaller and works for 90% of the time and then have rights to other preexisting lots in the area for the rare overflow episodes? With today's technology, when you go to a business, you should just be able to request a parking spot on your cell phone and the system will tell you where spots are currently available rather than searching around all day. These things would allow for greater density, and most importantly save money for everybody and time. When automated cars get accepted, they will automatically take you to the closest available spot by this search method if you own the car, or if you're using automated cars as a taxi service, it will just drop you off in front of the business. We're living in the modern world now. No need for old 20th century development paradigms anymore.
I would just be very careful about saying we need more parking in an area that already clearly has a surplus. I feel like the majority of the time, parking decks in most parts of the City sit empty and it does nothing to impart a greater feeling of safety in the area. Wrap around apartments like 9 North are wonderful though and if we could have more developments like that, I would be all for it.
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The answer to safe streets is more pedestrian activity at all times of the day. Parking lots deter pedestrian activity.