urbanSTL

At the risk of taking this thread completely off the rails (mods feel free to move to more appropriate thread) the Gateway Mall plots really need some kind of activation if they want to avoid being gathering spots for the homeless. Right now the parks aren't used for much outside of the occasional event.

The City Garden Kaldi's does (did) a wonderful job of achieving this. I would love to the concept repeated in areas west of Tucker. It wouldn't make much more than 3-4 retail spaces to activate things.

• Bike/Scooter rental
• Clementine's Creamery
• Mini beer and wine garden
• Brewery tasting room
• Permanent Ice rink/outdoor restaurant seating in the summer, IE Chicago in front of the Bean
• Pickleball and sand volleyball courts

GoHarvOrGoHome wrote:At the risk of taking this thread completely off the rails (mods feel free to move to more appropriate thread) the Gateway Mall plots really need some kind of activation if they want to avoid being gathering spots for the homeless. Right now the parks aren't used for much outside of the occasional event.

The City Garden Kaldi's does (did) a wonderful job of achieving this. I would love to the concept repeated in areas west of Tucker. It wouldn't make much more than 3-4 retail spaces to activate things.

• Bike/Scooter rental
• Clementine's Creamery
• Mini beer and wine garden
• Brewery tasting room
• Permanent Ice rink/outdoor restaurant seating in the summer, IE Chicago in front of the Bean
• Pickleball and sand volleyball courts

That would really help keep the corridor active all the way to the MLS Stadium and Union Station. Seems like this should be a big priority to me!

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^ & ^^ In regards to Gateway Mall master plan and comments above, 

I don't know what others think but I believe City Garden needs to expand another block east and the Twain sculpture relocated one way are another.   I can see underground parking and even some tiered above ground parking incorporating green roof, solar, water re use incorporated into an overall plan to get 909 chestnut activated as part of expanded City Garden.   City Garden a great space with the activation but feel that they really missed an opportunity and should have extend one more block east so you get the feel of say Plaza/Courthouse in one stretch, City garden filling the next stretch, and so on 

City Garden is much less active with the water features turned off.  Does anyone know why and if they are planning on turning them on in the near future?

"The water feature closure will be reevaluated in September, after Labor Day"

Just in time for the first indications of the inevitable Fall surge...which means it'll be closed until Spring 2022.

Old timers that double as “security” at CG said that the main pool/waterfall have a leak that requires $60,000 to fix

^ so in other words it's now a planter.

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Jul 27, 2021

Old timers that double as “security” at CG said that the main pool/waterfall have a leak that requires $60,000 to fix

There is a maintenance fund for these types of expenses, correct?  Not to mention that I assume whoever designed and built it has a reputation they would like to maintain...

I asked

“Thank you for your interest in Citygarden. We are expecting Kaldi's to reopen this fall.

Regarding the water features, and after much consideration, we have made the difficult decision that Citygarden’s water features will remain closed through at least Labor Day, 2021. While progress has been made in the battle against COVID-19, due to the continued vulnerability of our youngest visitors and those who are immunocompromised, we are unwilling to risk the possibility of turning Citygarden from a place of exploration, wonder and joy, into a place of worry, fear and sickness. In addition to our desire to protect those in our community who are the most vulnerable, this decision was also made after taking into consideration ongoing maintenance issues and other factors such as the potential for park overcrowding, a nationwide shortage of essential pool chemicals, and the ongoing difficulty of hiring appropriate seasonal staffers. While Citygarden will remain open to the general public, as it has throughout the pandemic, we will not play host to any events this summer.

The water feature closure will be reevaluated in September, after Labor Day.

Thank you for your patience.
Jen Sweet
Administrator

Citygarden c/o The Gateway Foundation
800 Market Street, Suite 1640
Saint Louis, MO 63101”

I’ve always thought the Twain sculpture should become a bunch of giant mirrors. Throw in some refreshed landscaping and a few new sculptures and you have a new selfie hotspot. It can become our own giant bean.


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Yeah, that was a middle-of-the-night stunt some folks pulled off many, many years ago

Something like that should be easy enough to reproduce noninvasively today using light projectors, I'd think. And could be changed up relatively easily.

Obviously projecting on a rusty slab won't allow for a vibrant pattern of colors, but a light-dark contrast should come through just fine at night.  Projectors + custom programming would be expensive and would need to be secured, but assuming Mr Serra and/or the sculpture caretakers approve that could be an interesting way to activate the space - and would tie in with similar projects at Union Station and Kiener Plaza.

-RBB

rbb wrote: ↑

Oct 05, 2021

Something like that should be easy enough to reproduce noninvasively today using light projectors, I'd think. And could be changed up relatively easily.

Obviously projecting on a rusty slab won't allow for a vibrant pattern of colors, but a light-dark contrast should come through just fine at night.  Projectors + custom programming would be expensive and would need to be secured, but assuming Mr Serra and/or the sculpture caretakers approve that could be an interesting way to activate the space - and would tie in with similar projects at Union Station and Kiener Plaza.

-RBB

I think that is not only a good idea to repurpose and reimagine Twain sculpture but I also think that presents the opportunity to find a new home as well on the mall itself.   Maybe on the West End of mall once MLS stadium is done and you got some good evening/night activity between Stadium/West Downtown and Union Station.  That would also free up the existing spot for expanded CityGarden with something in conjunction with Botanical Garden.    I really think the CityGarden and the mall itself would be better served if this particular stretch had a common theme instead of the odd pairing of CityGarden and Twain Sculpture in my opinion

Of course, I also think that adding underground parking to Citygarden and connection to 909  Chestnut might, just might get to a spot where a multiuse development finally happens  for the tower.  I know, it would be a huge parking subsidy in a city full of parking but you could rebuild and expand a good part of CityGarden.   

NextSTL - Revisiting the Gateway Mall Master Plan and Reimagining Peabody Plaza

https://nextstl.com/2022/10/revisiting- ... ody-plaza/

quincunx wrote:NextSTL - Revisiting the Gateway Mall Master Plan and Reimagining Peabody Plaza

https://nextstl.com/2022/10/revisiting- ... ody-plaza/

Ouch. I’m not a fan of what is in front of Peabody but I’ll take what is there currently over any of the suggestions in this article. Clearly whoever made them doesn’t have the education or credentials to be an urban planner or landscape architect.

First off Peabody shouldn’t be taken down. It is part of the Malls history that should be preserved. Plus we don’t have a need for more open space. Second the design needs to unify Kiener and CG not be another piece within a puzzle that gets plugged in and acts as it’s own. Lastly we don’t need to look far on successful mall redos. Omaha’s Gene Leahy Mall just reopened and is spectacular. I struggle with how we continue to lag behind even smaller metros such as Omaha.

Let's focus on the hideous parking garages with the Hooter's and the empty restaurants before touching Peabody. Peabody obstructs views of the Arch, but it also houses several important businesses that we should prioritize keeping downtown.

I like the general concepts of unifying the thing with a treelined walkway "hall" and creating distinct "rooms" along its length to serve its diverse needs and articulate its complicated space, but the reimagined Peabody area really doesn't do it for me. 

The first looks like it's trying to heard to be riff on the flag, and the disembodied zoo entrance is . . . an odd choice. It's a decent archway, but I'm not sure what function it serves here save to advertise for another park further west. 

The pyramid design with the smoke rising from it makes me think we're sacrificing something or someone to the gods of civic progress. It feels more Aztec than Mississippian.

And the last design makes it look like a construction site. It doesn't so much look like a ruin as a materials yard: pile of pipe here, spools of cable there, here a carne, there a slab . . .

I think I see where the author is coming from. They're not terrible ideas, really. They're just not doing it for me. I even understand and respect the desire to celebrate the Waino, I mean Wainright Buiding. But all that said, I don't think it's worth the cost of demolishing a serviceable building, and if you're going to do it you'll need something truly stunning to justify the act in a city that really needs to be building more and tearing down less. And in the end . . . rooms have walls separating them. It's only a half block, and it's not like we're getting rid of the Civil Courts building anyway. (Nor should we.) Better by far simply to invest in what's there and better activate the things along the perimeter. Like the parking garages. (As others have observed.)

The overall concept isn't terrible, though. And the hall and rooms analogy feels solid. It needs polishing and a dose of reality, but I can't disagree with the sentiment that the mall is missing out on its potential. I'm not 100% sure the mall was ever a great idea, but it's there now so we could stand to make it better. Particularly west of Civil Courts.

Suds wrote: ↑

Oct 03, 2022

Let's focus on the hideous parking garages with the Hooter's and the empty restaurants before touching Peabody. Peabody obstructs views of the Arch, but it also houses several important businesses that we should prioritize keeping downtown.

This, and also narrow Market to it's original width to actually reinforce the symmetry of the mall with the civil courts building and arch.