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PostFeb 12, 2007#76

Ahh, yes. "Plans." "Good ideas."



And typical St. Louis realization of same:



(From 1999)


ST. LOUIS MUST PAY BACK OLD DEBT OVER A PARKING GARAGE IT NEVER BUILT



In 1993, the city got state tax credits to help finance an underground garage downtown. It now must pay back about $3.6 million.



St. Louis never followed through with an idea in 1993 to build an underground parking garage as part of the Gateway Mall, the stretch of green space downtown between Market and Chestnut streets. So on Friday, the Board of Aldermen agreed to pay a $2.7 million promissory note to the Missouri Development Finance Board because the city defaulted on its plan.



Aldermanic President Francis Slay said that with interest, the $2.7 million promissory note from six years ago had grown to $3.6 million.



"The ball was either dropped or the plan for the garage was shelved," Slay said in an interview.



Mike Jones, Mayor Clarence Harmon's deputy mayor for development, said the idea for a 600-space underground garage was finalized hastily in 1993 by then-Mayor Vincent C. Schoemehl Jr. in the final days of his administration.



"It was put together without any details, and it landed on Mayor (Freeman) Bosley's lap, and by the time we (Harmon's administration) got here, we didn't have the mechanism to do it," Jones said. "It was too expensive. The garage was never designed or anything."



Jones said the cost to build an underground parking garage would be roughly $30,000 per space, while construction costs for above-ground lots average about $10,000 per space.



The city is in desperate need of parking, Jones said. An above-ground lot probably will be built in the next few years as part of the downtown development plan, he said.



The idea in 1993 for the underground lot was included in a deal in which the state issued tax credits so the city could fully develop the Gateway Mall. Jones said the project paid for the purchase and demolition of property on two city blocks to make way for part of the Gateway Mall, which nominally stretches from the Gateway Arch grounds to 21st Street by Union Station.



The Development Finance Board had given the city five years to get started on construction of the underground garage. With nothing under way, the promissory note became due, Slay said. Jones said the city always had to pay the debt, but that if the garage had been built, it could have spread the debt over 35 years.

604
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604

PostFeb 12, 2007#77

Doesn't matter if it would have been built or not. People would have complained that parking is more than one block from their office or arch grounds, so they wouldn't use it.



Think Century Building demolition.

2,953
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PostFeb 13, 2007#78

While I agree that there are several spots downtown that could be built upon before attacking green space...the problem is that the mall has a great location, and is utterly useless. Now, I don't think the time to build on it is now, but if a private developer came to the city to look into acquiring the land, I'd sell in a heartbeat.



Obviously (as touched on by prior conversations and threads regarding this issue), there are blocks that would remain untouchable. But those across from Bell are utterly unimaginative and are never utilized. Sell them.

3,311
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PostFeb 13, 2007#79

Real Estate Row:



http://www.builtstlouis.net/opos/index1.html

This was by far the biggest mistake downtown. Has anyone seen the really good photo in St. Louis before and after/today? This street could have been Wall Street in NY. Unbelievable that it was almost all torn down.

[/img]http://www.builtstlouis.net/opos/images ... ow.jpg[img]

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PostFeb 14, 2007#80

Learn from the past, don't live in it. Every time we start talking about the mall and how to improve what is currently there, someone laments the demise of the past. The past dies every second. Let's move forward, not harping on mistakes, but learning from them.

923
Super MemberSuper Member
923

PostFeb 14, 2007#81

TheWayoftheArch wrote:Learn from the past, don't live in it. Every time we start talking about the mall and how to improve what is currently there, someone laments the demise of the past. The past dies every second. Let's move forward, not harping on mistakes, but learning from them.


NO - That's not being a true St. Louisan! You're asking people to think outside their comfort zone! What are you, some kind of progressive? We don't like that kind of thinking here! [-X

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PostFeb 14, 2007#82

Oops,you're right.



I'll go climb back into my box.

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PostFeb 19, 2007#83

I like to learn from history so we can learn from our "past" mistakes that seem to continue to occur to this day. Century Building demolition and now historic row houses in Lafayatte Park.. I'm not sipping a mint julep on the front porch, blissfully remembering the glory days of St. Louis; I'm trying to keep past failures fresh in peoples minds.

212
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PostFeb 24, 2007#84

Some sort of work is begin done on the mall between the blocks of 9th and 8th streets . Would anyone happen to have a idea on what is begin done ?

729
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729

PostFeb 27, 2007#85

Prophett wrote:Some sort of work is begin done on the mall between the blocks of 9th and 8th streets . Would anyone happen to have a idea on what is begin done ?


Yea, they have all kinds of big equipment setting up with lots of steel layed out on the ground. I am curious to what is going on as well.

3,785
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3,785

PostFeb 27, 2007#86

If the homeless are the only ones using our green space Downtown, then I say build office/residential with store front retail, at least with respect to the Mall.

6,775
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6,775

PostFeb 27, 2007#87

Doug wrote:If the homeless are the only ones using our green space Downtown, then I say build office/residential with store front retail, at least with respect to the Mall.


Or better yet, remove the homeless.

995
Super MemberSuper Member
995

PostFeb 27, 2007#88

remove the homeless


If this is more than an affirmation of the current 10 Year Plan to End Chronic Homelessness, please specify where (and when and how) you plan to send them.

1,448
Super ModeratorSuper Moderator
1,448

PostFeb 27, 2007#89

publiceye wrote:
remove the homeless


If this is more than an affirmation of the current 10 Year Plan to End Chronic Homelessness, please specify where (and when and how) you plan to send them.


CS was being facetious, perhaps?

995
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995

PostFeb 27, 2007#90

If so, I cheerfully rescind my question marks.

6,775
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6,775

PostFeb 27, 2007#91

publiceye wrote:
remove the homeless


If this is more than an affirmation of the current 10 Year Plan to End Chronic Homelessness, please specify where (and when and how) you plan to send them.


Drive them out into the middle of no where and let them out. If they truely are "homeless", then it won't matter where they are.

1,400
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PostFeb 27, 2007#92

If they truely are "homeless", then it won't matter where they are.


I've always thought this was something of a misnomer. It should probably be more along the lines of "houseless" or "propertyless."

476
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PostFeb 28, 2007#93

I know a homeless guy who actually has a job. He just lives out of his car and owns a PO box. I dont know where he parks at night tho... everytime ive passed out in my car in a parking lot i always wake up with a cop tapping on my window...

54
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PostFeb 28, 2007#94

stlmike wrote:
If they truely are "homeless", then it won't matter where they are.


I've always thought this was something of a misnomer. It should probably be more along the lines of "houseless" or "propertyless."


Enough about the homeless! Anybody know what is going on in the Gateway Mall? The crane they've set up there is big enough to..... (insert rude sarcastic hilarious comment here).

264
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PostFeb 28, 2007#95

i wondered if anyone would notice this ... they're putting together a crane (so big it takes 2 other cranes) so they can add huge HVAC equipment ontop of the AT&T datacenter at 9th & chestnut.



its pretty fun to watch.. they did the exact same thing a couple years ago, only last time they cut down all the trees on the mall & replanted them, this time they built a special platform in the middle of the mall.

7,810
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PostFeb 28, 2007#96

shinpickle wrote:i wondered if anyone would notice this ... they're putting together a crane (so big it takes 2 other cranes) so they can add huge HVAC equipment ontop of the AT&T datacenter at 9th & chestnut.



its pretty fun to watch.. they did the exact same thing a couple years ago, only last time they cut down all the trees on the mall & replanted them, this time they built a special platform in the middle of the mall.


I didn't think they used that building any more. Looks pretty dead IMHO.

10K
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10K

PostFeb 28, 2007#97

I was watching "Can Mr. Smith Get to Washington Anymore?" on Channel 9 last night, which was, of course, shot in St. Louis. At one point, Jeff Smith is giving a press conference on the steps of the Old Courthouse, with the Kiener garages in the background. Good lord, they look even worse on TV than in person - I really wish something could or would be done about them.

3,433
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PostFeb 28, 2007#98

stlmike wrote:
If they truely are "homeless", then it won't matter where they are.


I've always thought this was something of a misnomer. It should probably be more along the lines of "houseless" or "propertyless."


You sound like the guy who said the homeless should start out as apartmentless and work their way up to homeless.

6,662
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6,662

PostMay 29, 2007#99

There will be a Gateway Mall "Open House" on Monday June 11 from 6:30 PM to 8:30 PM at City Hall, Room 208



More Info

502
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502

PostMay 30, 2007#100

From the open house flyer:


The Gateway Mall Steering Committee invites you to attend a public open house to view and

comment on ideas for a new vision for the gateway mall. A consulting team has been engaged to

create a mall master plan that will guide how the open space will evolve over the next decade.


New vision is definitely required!!

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